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Topic: Hybrid / delta encoding formats? (DTS-HD MA, WavPack) (Read 4658 times) previous topic - next topic
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Hybrid / delta encoding formats? (DTS-HD MA, WavPack)

I'm interested in lossless packing of sound through a lossy + lossless hybrid approach. DTS-HD MA stores a lossy DTS "core" and delta/correction data to be combined with the core for true lossless audio. From reading online, it looks like WavPack is the way to go if I want to duplicate this functionality. The reason is that DTS-HD encoders aren't really made available to end users; I have no idea how much a software package that encodes it would cost. (Probably priced for movie studios, right?)

Are there any other hybrid formats out there?
Are there test results for WavPack's lossy mode?

Hybrid / delta encoding formats? (DTS-HD MA, WavPack)

Reply #1 –
MPEG-4 SLS, although its a dead format. 
MP3HD, also dead.
OptimFROG Dual stream.

Hybrid / delta encoding formats? (DTS-HD MA, WavPack)

Reply #2 –
For listening tests you cannot include hybrids as they don't compete with the same bitrate. Roughly,  WV 200,260,320 is like 60,130,190 of the others.

Hybrid / delta encoding formats? (DTS-HD MA, WavPack)

Reply #4 –
Does LossyWAV count

Hybrid / delta encoding formats? (DTS-HD MA, WavPack)

Reply #5 –
Are there any tests that compare the size difference of:

1 audio track using a hybrid format
vs
1 pure lossless audio track + 1 pure transparent lossy audio track

Hybrid / delta encoding formats? (DTS-HD MA, WavPack)

Reply #6 –
I suspect that the various formats discussed have somewhat different goals for their hybrid mode. In WavPack's case, the goal was for the two hybrid mode files together to be as close as possible in size to the pure lossless mode, and generally the difference is only about 1% penalty for hybrid. That's equivalent to 14 kbps, so obviously there's no transparent (or even listenable) lossy format that's going to fit in that space.

In fact, since WavPack compresses a little better than FLAC (especially in the higher modes), it's often the case that the two WavPack hybrid files together are smaller than the single FLAC file!

I think the situation is similar for OptimFROG, but I can't say that about the others mentioned. I believe that their lossless versions suffer a great penalty for hybrid, but they may have had different goals (like better quality at lower bitrates for the lossy portion). I don't believe that there's a hybrid solution that provides both competitive lossless compression and competitive lossy performance.