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Topic: Any cheap soundcard/interface for Rightmark/ARTA? (Read 13984 times) previous topic - next topic
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Any cheap soundcard/interface for Rightmark/ARTA?

As the title says, I'm looking for a cheap soundcard/interface with a good adc for audio measurements (especially noise performance), preferably under 80$ (doesn't matter if its used), I've seen several used E-MU interfaces under that price, however the lack of support for windows 10 holds me from pulling the trigger.

It can perfectly be a soundcard, I don't need high input levels as I can put a voltage divider at the input of the card. This SB Xtreme music seems decent enough: https://pclab.pl/zdjecia/artykuly/pila/sound_blaster_x-fi/RMAA/Sound%20Blaster%20X-Fi%20XtremeMusic%2024-96.htm

And seems to be supported on windows 10 by third party drivers.

Other is the live 24 (and its reincarnations): http://www.gmaptool.eu/audio/sb0410/index.html There they also tested its dac with an E-MU 0202.

But cmon! All those are old soundcards, there's gotta be something with better adc under 80$.

Edit: If there are not options under 80$, what's the closest thing that follows? There are some Focusrite interfaces, however this is the very little I've been able to find about them:
http://s12.postimg.org/gw2a0ii59/rmaa_focusrite2i4.png

(Both measured at 24 bit according to the author).

It even performs worse than the old live 24.
 

Re: Any cheap soundcard/interface for Rightmark/ARTA?

Reply #1 –
Behringer U-Phoria UM2... 30$

Re: Any cheap soundcard/interface for Rightmark/ARTA?

Reply #2 –
Quote from: Phoenix1 on
As the title says, I'm looking for a cheap soundcard/interface with a good adc for audio measurements (especially noise performance), preferably under 80$ (doesn't matter if its used), I've seen several used E-MU interfaces under that price, however the lack of support for windows 10 holds me from pulling the trigger.

It can perfectly be a soundcard, I don't need high input levels as I can put a voltage divider at the input of the card. This SB Xtreme music seems decent enough: https://pclab.pl/zdjecia/artykuly/pila/sound_blaster_x-fi/RMAA/Sound%20Blaster%20X-Fi%20XtremeMusic%2024-96.htm

And seems to be supported on windows 10 by third party drivers.

Other is the live 24 (and its reincarnations): http://www.gmaptool.eu/audio/sb0410/index.html There they also tested its dac with an E-MU 0202.

Hidden in the data is the common situaiton where consumer audio interfaces often have asymmetrical performance. The DACs are the focus of their existence, while often the ADCs are also-rans.  The use of the eMu 0202 bypasses the poorer performing ADC of the CL cards and that shows up if you compare looping back the CL card to itself versus using the ADC  of the 0202 instead of the one in the CL card. 

Ironically eMu is the professional sound subsidiary of CL.

Quote
But cmon! All those are old soundcards, there's gotta be something with better adc under 80$.

Again the Windows 10 support might be a little iffy, but a used M-Audio AP 24192 does have high, symmetrical performance. and I've paid around $40 for used ones in good working concition on eBay. 
Quote
Edit: If there are not options under 80$, what's the closest thing that follows? There are some Focusrite interfaces, however this is the very little I've been able to find about them:
http://s12.postimg.org/gw2a0ii59/rmaa_focusrite2i4.png

(Both measured at 24 bit according to the author).

It even performs worse than the old live 24.

The Focusrite 2i4 is a card that I also own and find to be very stable and easy to use.  Mine might perform a tad better than is shown in the tests you linked.

The golden age of reasonably priced, high performance audio interfaces was  IME about 6-8 years ago. 

There are still really great cards by say, RME but you get to pay for them! 

USB cards are a bit of a more difficult price/performance proposition than PCI cards, as a rule.

Re: Any cheap soundcard/interface for Rightmark/ARTA?

Reply #3 –
Quote from: silverprout date=1484730660 link=msg=934314] Behringer U-Phoria UM2... 30$ [/quote] How does it do in a RMAA loopback? [quote author=Arnold B. Krueger on
er link=msg=934340 date=1484753786]

Hidden in the data is the common situaiton where consumer audio interfaces often have asymmetrical performance. The DACs are the focus of their existence, while often the ADCs are also-rans.  The use of the eMu 0202 bypasses the poorer performing ADC of the CL cards and that shows up if you compare looping back the CL card to itself versus using the ADC  of the 0202 instead of the one in the CL card. 

Ironically eMu is the professional sound subsidiary of CL.

Again the Windows 10 support might be a little iffy, but a used M-Audio AP 24192 does have high, symmetrical performance. and I've paid around $40 for used ones in good working concition on eBay. 

The Focusrite 2i4 is a card that I also own and find to be very stable and easy to use.  Mine might perform a tad better than is shown in the tests you linked.

The golden age of reasonably priced, high performance audio interfaces was  IME about 6-8 years ago. 

There are still really great cards by say, RME but you get to pay for them! 

USB cards are a bit of a more difficult price/performance proposition than PCI cards, as a rule.

Thanks Arnold, why is that there was an golden age? What has happened recently that changed that? I've also read about the focusrite forte, it performs very nice, archimago uses one, however it seems to have been discontinued and cheapest I've found (used) costs almost 200$!

Seems I'll have to aim for an Essence ST if I want better adc performance than the old creatives, with windows 10 support.

Re: Any cheap soundcard/interface for Rightmark/ARTA?

Reply #4 –
Quote from: Phoenix1 on
Quote from: silverprout on
Behringer U-Phoria UM2... 30$

How does it do in a RMAA loopback?

I haven't measured it, but who needs a DR of 140dB for measuring purposes ?
The mic preamp is noisy but the measurements are as accurate as my good quality (pro) interfaces, why pay more ?
Plug it without any driver installation on any usb port and enjoy it without headaches  ;)

Re: Any cheap soundcard/interface for Rightmark/ARTA?

Reply #5 –
Quote from: silverprout on
Quote from: Phoenix1 on
Quote from: silverprout on
Behringer U-Phoria UM2... 30$

How does it do in a RMAA loopback?

I haven't measured it, but who needs a DR of 140dB for measuring purposes ?
The mic preamp is noisy but the measurements are as accurate as my good quality (pro) interfaces, why pay more ?
Plug it without any driver installation on any usb port and enjoy it without headaches  ;)


I actually need it to measure noise. I'm aiming to at least a -100 dB SNR in reference to the max input voltage of the card (this also why I'm aiming for soundcards, as they dont have high input levels).

The 0dBFS input voltage of the SB0460 is 2 Vrms, wtih a -100 dB ADC it means that I can measure noise all the way down to 20 uVrms (and that's still more than 30 dBSPL of noise with sensitive IEMs). This is probably the same case with the SB0790.

The Essence ST/STX in a loopback give something like -116 dB SNR, with the same max input voltage. That's 3 uVrms of noise!

Re: Any cheap soundcard/interface for Rightmark/ARTA?

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Phoenix1 on
I actually need it to measure noise. I'm aiming to at least a -100 dB SNR in reference to the max input voltage of the card (this also why I'm aiming for soundcards, as they dont have high input levels).
Dou you have an external phantom PSU ?
Dou you need to amplify your signal+noise comming from the mic ?

Quote from: Phoenix1 on
(and that's still more than 30 dBSPL of noise with sensitive IEMs).
Could you detail your calculation please ?

Quote from: Phoenix1 on
The Essence ST/STX in a loopback give something like -116 dB SNR, with the same max input voltage. That's 3 uVrms of noise!
3 uVrms=0.000003V... it seems hard to get excited about  ;)

Re: Any cheap soundcard/interface for Rightmark/ARTA?

Reply #7 –
Quote from: silverprout on
Dou you have an external phantom PSU ?
Dou you need to amplify your signal+noise comming from the mic ?

I don't have one, and I don't need one either, I'll use it to measure other soundcards, phones, etc. Not for microphones.

Quote from: silverprout on
Could you detail your calculation please ?
--------------------------------------------------------------------
EDIT: I noticed you asked for the SPL calculation, not for SNR, well: http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/UETF10.pdf
"Volts RMS required to reach 90dB SPL: 0.015  Vrms"

90 dB SPL + 20log(0.000009 V/0.015 V for 90 dB) = 25.5 dB SPL

This is with 9 uVrms (with 20 uVrms yields 32.5 dB SPL) .
------------------------------------------------------------------

If with a 2 Vrms input voltage, RMAA reports an SNR of -116 dB, the amplitude of the noise is:

2 Vrms * 10^(-116 dB / 20 ) = 0.00000316978 Vrms.

Obviously this is A-weighted, absolute noise is a bit higher.

Quote from: silverprout on
3 uVrms=0.000003V... it seems hard to get excited about  ;)


Well that's what basic math yields, you can even do 20log(2/0.00000316978 ) and it gives 116 dB. To give you an idea 9 uVrms of noise (= 0.000009 Vrms) is 25.5 dB SPL in a pair of Triple-Fi 10, that can perfectly be a perceptible hiss in a quiet place.

What's not possible is the 140 dB you mentioned before, at this point Johnson noise becomes an issue. The best dacs and adc achieve a 20 ENOB, that's an SNR of 122 dB.

And is not rightmark that invents numbers, for example: the ODAC has an A-Weighted -102.8 dBu noise, this was measured with a Prism dScope by the way (some very expensive equipment).

However the "u" means that it is in reference to 0.7746 Vrms, the ODAC max output voltage is 2 Vrms, so if you do the math, that yields a -111 dB SNR.

And that's exactly what this guy measured with an Essence STX (+- 1 dB): http://rmaa.hege.li/ODAC.htm

And here's a loopback of the STX: http://rmaa.hege.li/Xonar_STX_new.htm

Re: Any cheap soundcard/interface for Rightmark/ARTA?

Reply #8 –
Quote from: Phoenix1 on
--------------------------------------------------------------------
EDIT: I noticed you asked for the SPL calculation, not for SNR, well: http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/UETF10.pdf
"Volts RMS required to reach 90dB SPL: 0.015  Vrms"
90 dB SPL + 20log(0.000009 V/0.015 V for 90 dB) = 25.5 dB SPL
This is with 9 uVrms (with 20 uVrms yields 32.5 dB SPL) .
------------------------------------------------------------------
I will dot discuss your calculation and considering it right, but there are a lot of estimated parameters here ;)

Quote from: Phoenix1 on
If with a 2 Vrms input voltage, RMAA reports an SNR of -116 dB, the amplitude of the noise is:
2 Vrms * 10^(-116 dB / 20 ) = 0.00000316978 Vrms.
Obviously this is A-weighted, absolute noise is a bit higher.
Ok, you've chosen the "A" instead of "Z" despite of the bass bump in the FR in order to match the human perception of uniform noise at very low SPL.

Quote from: Phoenix1 on
And is not rightmark that invents numbers, for example: the ODAC has an A-Weighted -102.8 dBu noise, this was measured with a Prism dScope by the way (some very expensive equipment).
However the "u" means that it is in reference to 0.7746 Vrms, the ODAC max output voltage is 2 Vrms, so if you do the math, that yields a -111 dB SNR.
And that's exactly what this guy measured with an Essence STX (+- 1 dB): http://rmaa.hege.li/ODAC.htm
And here's a loopback of the STX: http://rmaa.hege.li/Xonar_STX_new.htm

If the best DAC is only able of 122dB it should be very hard to measure this with outputs and inputs operational amplifiers that injects 0.04mV of noise per amplifier in this signal IMHO.
https://www.rcscomponents.kiev.ua/datasheets/jrc45584i743ncft874nfdt34ufguygf43.pdf
Cheap integrated codecs like the one used on the ODAC seems capable of a 100dB of SNR...
http://www.hwupgrade.it/articoli/multimedia/1163/terratec-aureon-51-usb-mk-ii_6.html
Why don't choose an MB integrated chip, your math should be Ok ;)

Re: Any cheap soundcard/interface for Rightmark/ARTA?

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Phoenix1 on
Thanks Arnold, why is that there was an golden age? What has happened recently that changed that? ... ... ...

The audiophile DAC market happened. Part of the marketing was that it is "noisy" inside a PC cabinet, so a DAC must be external.

Audiophiles bought this in a big way. And it seems that there were not many of them caring about ADC functionality. I imagine that this destroyed the market for simple, high-quality,  2-channel-i/o cards, so not much point in selling them.  Sad, for those of us that continued to want to buy them.
The most important audio cables are the ones in the brain

Re: Any cheap soundcard/interface for Rightmark/ARTA?

Reply #10 –
Quote from: silverprout on
I will dot discuss your calculation and considering it right, but there are a lot of estimated parameters here ;)

What did I estimate?

Quote from: silverprout on
Ok, you've chosen the "A" instead of "Z" despite of the bass bump in the FR in order to match the human perception of uniform noise at very low SPL.

? ? ?

Quote from: silverprout on
If the best DAC is only able of 122dB it should be very hard to measure this with outputs and inputs operational amplifiers that injects 0.04mV of noise per amplifier in this signal IMHO.
https://www.rcscomponents.kiev.ua/datasheets/jrc45584i743ncft874nfdt34ufguygf43.pdf
Cheap integrated codecs like the one used on the ODAC seems capable of a 100dB of SNR...
http://www.hwupgrade.it/articoli/multimedia/1163/terratec-aureon-51-usb-mk-ii_6.html
Why don't choose an MB integrated chip, your math should be Ok ;)

I really don't get what you're trying to say, first, why do you link the JRC4558?

Also, There are a lot better opamps for the same price. Here's some measurements of other opamps, with their noise: http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/08/op-amp-measurements.html

The njm2068 achieves an A weighted noise of -109.1 dBV. That's 3.5 uVrms. And the unweighted value is -106.2 dBV (= 4.8 uVrms).
http://prntscr.com/dy9q50

I also don't get what you're trying to say with the 2nd link, those are measurements at 16 Bit, it limits the SNR to about 96 dB best case (A-weithing will make it look a bit better).

My motherboard in a loopback achieves -90 dB SNR with a 1.5 Vrms output voltage, obviously it may also be its ADC the limiting factor. Neither of the devices you linked achieve the SNR of 16 Bit audio. You have the rightmark report right there in your link, hopefully you're not mixing noisefloor with snr.

 

Re: Any cheap soundcard/interface for Rightmark/ARTA?

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Phoenix1 on
Quote from: silverprout on
I will dot discuss your calculation and considering it right, but there are a lot of estimated parameters here ;)

What did I estimate?

Everything has his part of approximation especially when a closed ear coupler is involved with a universal IEM.
Just my 2cents : i'm able to insert the Etymotic ER4S in my ears after the second bend (residual ear canal volume around 0.5cm²) with the small flanges.
The IEC711 couler is designed to simulate a 1.6cm² of residual ear canal volume, it makes several dozens dB of differences (SPL and linearity)

Quote from: Phoenix1 on
Quote from: silverprout on
Ok, you've chosen the "A" instead of "Z" despite of the bass bump in the FR in order to match the human perception of uniform noise at very low SPL.
A weighting instead of Z weighing (not the same transfer function) ;) the bass of this IEM is so bloated that we might percieve the noise louder in the lows than in the mids.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-weighting

Quote from: Phoenix1 on
Quote from: silverprout on
If the best DAC is only able of 122dB it should be very hard to measure this with outputs and inputs operational amplifiers that injects 0.04mV of noise per amplifier in this signal IMHO.
https://www.rcscomponents.kiev.ua/datasheets/jrc45584i743ncft874nfdt34ufguygf43.pdf
Cheap integrated codecs like the one used on the ODAC seems capable of a 100dB of SNR...
http://www.hwupgrade.it/articoli/multimedia/1163/terratec-aureon-51-usb-mk-ii_6.html
Why don't choose an MB integrated chip, your math should be Ok ;)
Quote from: Phoenix1 on
I really don't get what you're trying to say, first, why do you link the JRC4558?
This OPAMP is installed on 99% of the audio stuff of the consumer market.

Quote from: Phoenix1 on
I also don't get what you're trying to say with the 2nd link, those are measurements at 16 Bit, it limits the SNR to about 96 dB best case (A-weithing will make it look a bit better).
A 20bits ADC/DAC, it is only capable of a 16 bits processing ?

Quote from: Phoenix1 on
My motherboard in a loopback achieves -90 dB SNR with a 1.5 Vrms output voltage, obviously it may also be its ADC the limiting factor. Neither of the devices you linked achieve the SNR of 16 Bit audio. You have the rightmark report right there in your link, hopefully you're not mixing noisefloor with snr.
Sometimes yes, it happens :D but they are interdependent in that way of measuring IMHO.

Re: Any cheap soundcard/interface for Rightmark/ARTA?

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Thad E Ginathom on
Quote from: Phoenix1 on
Thanks Arnold, why is that there was an golden age? What has happened recently that changed that? ... ... ...

The audiophile DAC market happened. Part of the marketing was that it is "noisy" inside a PC cabinet, so a DAC must be external.

Audiophiles bought this in a big way. And it seems that there were not many of them caring about ADC functionality. I imagine that this destroyed the market for simple, high-quality,  2-channel-i/o cards, so not much point in selling them.  Sad, for those of us that continued to want to buy them.


My 2 cents :
It is a tad difficult for the mainstream consumer to live between the engeeneers that are unable to give a decent noise floor (cheap audio card) for everyone by galvanically decoupling it and the paranoiac audiophile that buy galvanic isolators for their ethernet links (which are natively galvanically isolated).http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/sotm2/1.html

Re: Any cheap soundcard/interface for Rightmark/ARTA?

Reply #13 –
Quote from: silverprout on
Everything has his part of approximation especially when a closed ear coupler is involved with a universal IEM.
Just my 2cents : i'm able to insert the Etymotic ER4S in my ears after the second bend (residual ear canal volume around 0.5cm²) with the small flanges.
The IEC711 couler is designed to simulate a 1.6cm² of residual ear canal volume, it makes several dozens dB of differences (SPL and linearity)

So, you're talking about how they measured their dB/V sensitivity instead of the calculations based on that. Ok.

However I can tell you is that I did a basic test with a pair of 2nd piston (reducing white noise amplitude to get about 25 dB SPL based on tyll's data) and I wasn't able to hear noise under 21 dB SPL (based on tylls data again). I would say his measures holds pretty well. Obviously it can't be perfect and may vary a lot depending of the person.  Is there a better source to rely on dB/V measures?

Quote from: silverprout on
A weighting instead of Z weighing (not the same transfer function) ;) the bass of this IEM is so bloated that we might percieve the noise louder in the lows than in the mids.

Yeah, but I did not choose to a-weight the results, that's something rightmark does.


Quote from: silverprout on
This OPAMP is installed on 99% of the audio stuff of the consumer market.

Also the old TL072, measured -94.8 dBV unweighted with a gain of 7, that's a lot less than the 0.04mV from the NJM4558, also the very popular 5532 measured 6.6 uVrms, again, with a gain of 7.

Quote from: silverprout on
A 20bits ADC/DAC, it is only capable of a 16 bits processing ?

The rightmark test was performed at 16 bits. the test signal is at 16 bits. Check the loopback of the STX, it was also performed at 16 bits and SNR was limited.




Re: Any cheap soundcard/interface for Rightmark/ARTA?

Reply #14 –
Quote from: silverprout on

If the best DAC is only able of 122dB it should be very hard to measure this with outputs and inputs operational amplifiers that injects 0.04mV of noise per amplifier in this signal IMHO.


False.  All you need is a means to make an relatively accurate measurement at the low voltages we see with noise floors.

For a measurement to be accurate, the noise floor of the measurement need only be about 30-40 dB below the voltage of the noise.  You can make a SNR measurement by measuring the fill-scale signal and the noise floor at different times by different means.  There is no need for the measuring sysetm to have better dynamic range that that which is being measured.

A common audio device for doing this is called a mic preamp.

The FS voltage is usually large enough that it can be accurately measured with an appropriate DVM.

The noise voltage can be measured with the assistance of an amplifier whose gain is accurately known.

Re: Any cheap soundcard/interface for Rightmark/ARTA?

Reply #15 –
Quote from: Thad E Ginathom on
Quote from: Phoenix1 on
Thanks Arnold, why is that there was an golden age? What has happened recently that changed that? ... ... ...

The audiophile DAC market happened. Part of the marketing was that it is "noisy" inside a PC cabinet, so a DAC must be external.

I've spiked that popular placebophile fallacy on various forums enough times to know that it is real.  Very real.

However, back in the real Windows world  there are about 50% more laptops than desktops, which is a huge boost to USB audio interface sales. 

There are roughly equal numbers of touchpads and notebooks with the former pulling slightly ahead.

Quote
Audiophiles bought this in a big way. And it seems that there were not many of them caring about ADC functionality. I imagine that this destroyed the market for simple, high-quality,  2-channel-i/o cards, so not much point in selling them.  Sad, for those of us that continued to want to buy them.

As a practical matter, USB audio interfaces seem to be inherently a tad noisier than PCI cards all other things being equal. The upper end eMu USB interfaces from around 2010  were among the best, but even they seem to run out of dynamic range around 112 dB.

While Android computers have USB ports and can transmit good audio digital audio via LAN, BT, HDMI, and Ethernet, they generally don't have internal slots for PCI or PCI-E upgrades.


Re: Any cheap soundcard/interface for Rightmark/ARTA?

Reply #16 –
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
Quote from: Thad E Ginathom on
Quote from: Phoenix1 on
Thanks Arnold, why is that there was an golden age? What has happened recently that changed that? ... ... ...

The audiophile DAC market happened. Part of the marketing was that it is "noisy" inside a PC cabinet, so a DAC must be external.

I've spiked that popular placebophile fallacy on various forums enough times to know that it is real.  Very real.

However, back in the real Windows world  there are about 50% more laptops than desktops, which is a huge boost to USB audio interface sales. 

There are roughly equal numbers of touchpads and notebooks with the former pulling slightly ahead.

Quote
Audiophiles bought this in a big way. And it seems that there were not many of them caring about ADC functionality. I imagine that this destroyed the market for simple, high-quality,  2-channel-i/o cards, so not much point in selling them.  Sad, for those of us that continued to want to buy them.
As a practical matter, USB audio interfaces seem to be inherently a tad noisier than PCI cards all other things being equal. The upper end eMu USB interfaces from around 2010  were among the best, but even they seem to run out of dynamic range around 112 dB.

While Android computers have USB ports and can transmit good audio digital audio via LAN, BT, HDMI, and Ethernet, they generally don't have internal slots for PCI or PCI-E upgrades.

The main reason that i prefer USB interfaces instead of PCI ones is unmaintained drivers and incompatibilities (XP, Vista and W7/8/10 and all updates ;) )



Re: Any cheap soundcard/interface for Rightmark/ARTA?

Reply #18 –
Quote from: silverprout on
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
A common audio device for doing this is called a mic preamp.

You can find this interface for less than 100$ new...
http://www.harmonycentral.com/expert-reviews/mackie-onyx-blackjack-usb-2-x-2-audio-interface

Very silent mic preamp.

I bought one, measured it, and found the Focusrite 2i4  to be a superior performer. 

My used 2i4 from eBay was price-competitive.

Re: Any cheap soundcard/interface for Rightmark/ARTA?

Reply #19 –
Quote from: silverprout on
Behringer U-Phoria UM2... 30$
hi
i'm looking for a good soundcard too , i can find it for 54€

do the external sound card sound like the inernals?

is it enough to plug via usb and disable the built in sound card?

thanks

Re: Any cheap soundcard/interface for Rightmark/ARTA?

Reply #20 –
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
Quote from: silverprout on
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
A common audio device for doing this is called a mic preamp.
You can find this interface for less than 100$ new...
http://www.harmonycentral.com/expert-reviews/mackie-onyx-blackjack-usb-2-x-2-audio-interface
Very silent mic preamp.
I bought one, measured it, and found the Focusrite 2i4  to be a superior performer. 
My used 2i4 from eBay was price-competitive.
Berhinger is a lot cheaper, have you tested it (UMC202) ?
- DAC: Cirrus logic CS4272
- Op. amps: JRC 2122 et AD8694
Quote from: francesco on
Quote from: silverprout on
Behringer U-Phoria UM2... 30$
hi
i'm looking for a good soundcard too , i can find it for 54€
do the external sound card sound like the inernals?
is it enough to plug via usb and disable the built in sound card?
thanks
I'm not sure that an UM2 can beat a modern integrated chipset at the analog output  :-X
Generally speaking the only interest of this interface is the phantom PSU.

Re: Any cheap soundcard/interface for Rightmark/ARTA?

Reply #21 –
Quote from: silverprout on
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
Quote from: silverprout on
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
A common audio device for doing this is called a mic preamp.
You can find this interface for less than 100$ new...
http://www.harmonycentral.com/expert-reviews/mackie-onyx-blackjack-usb-2-x-2-audio-interface
Very silent mic preamp.
I bought one, measured it, and found the Focusrite 2i4  to be a superior performer. 
My used 2i4 from eBay was price-competitive.
Berhinger is a lot cheaper, have you tested it (UMC202) ?
- DAC: Cirrus logic CS4272
- Op. amps: JRC 2122 et AD8694


Yes  I have. While the Focusrite Series 1 that I have only works at 16 bits and is at its best only at 44 KHz sampling, It outperforms the Behringer by about 93 dB SNR to 65 dB SNR. even with the Behringer operating at 24/96.

Re: Any cheap soundcard/interface for Rightmark/ARTA?

Reply #22 –
Quote from: silverprout on
I'm not sure that an UM2 can beat a modern integrated chipset at the analog output  :-X

Can't even get to 60 dB SNR.

The left channel inputs, both mic and line are split between the two outputs (mono).  I couldn't get a rise out of the other input.

Quote
Generally speaking the only interest of this interface is the phantom PSU.

Not needed, and in fact fatal for technical tests, if inadvertantly enabled.

Re: Any cheap soundcard/interface for Rightmark/ARTA?

Reply #23 –
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
Quote from: silverprout on
I'm not sure that an UM2 can beat a modern integrated chipset at the analog output  :-X
Can't even get to 60 dB SNR.
The left channel inputs, both mic and line are split between the two outputs (mono).  I couldn't get a rise out of the other input.
Can it be problematic for the people who listen music 10-20 dB above the noise of their environment ?

Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
Quote
Generally speaking the only interest of this interface is the phantom PSU.
Not needed, and in fact fatal for technical tests, if inadvertantly enabled.
You can plug the 48v phantom PSU of the Mackie Blackjack on its output withouts destroying them thanks to the coupling caps.

Re: Any cheap soundcard/interface for Rightmark/ARTA?

Reply #24 –
Quote from: silverprout on
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
Quote from: silverprout on
I'm not sure that an UM2 can beat a modern integrated chipset at the analog output  :-X
Can't even get to 60 dB SNR.
The left channel inputs, both mic and line are split between the two outputs (mono).  I couldn't get a rise out of the other input.
Can it be problematic for the people who listen music 10-20 dB above the noise of their environment ?

Yes.  Noise that high will probably be audible between songs, and might e audible during the sound because it is not necessarily masked by the music.

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Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
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Generally speaking the only interest of this interface is the phantom PSU.
Not needed, and in fact fatal for technical tests, if inadvertantly enabled.
You can plug the 48v phantom PSU of the Mackie Blackjack on its output withouts destroying them thanks to the coupling caps.



Doesn't help other gear you might want to use with it. Better to turn the 48 v off, and better yet if it wasn't there at all.