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Topic: Should I dither? (Converting 24bit to 16bit FLAC) (Read 6864 times) previous topic - next topic

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  • greynol
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  • Global Moderator
Re: Should I dither? (Converting 24bit to 16bit FLAC)
Reply #25
There was a thread here this year where the sounds of highly amplified dither were posted, they can serve as a hint of how those "dither sounds" are applied.
Bad idea (read previous post).  When making decisions about noise shaping, it's an even worse idea because of equal loudness contours.
Is 24-bit/192kHz good enough for your lo-fi vinyl, or do you need 32/384?

  • bmcelvan
  • [*][*]
Re: Should I dither? (Converting 24bit to 16bit FLAC)
Reply #26
Thank you for the input. I actually don't use foobar for most of my converting...I don't know why, it is pretty easy but I started with and still use Lame Frontend and FLAC frontend and then tag with mp3tag. I guess I just like the control and feel with those two programs even though I assume foobar has just as much control as those two.

The only thing I don't like about command line is I'm not good enough with the scripts to do batches of files...or I just don't know an easy way to do that (Windows here). When converting movie audio tracks using eac3to I don't really care cause I'm usually doing a single file at a time. But with musical audio it's almost always at least 10 files if not hundreds at a time.

I'd actually much prefer to use the SoX command line. It sounds as though you both prefer it. Even if I'm just just using the defaults like the script you mentioned above, I'd like to go that route. I do indeed like the control of command line.

Is there an easy way to script the code above for all .flac or .wav files in a folder? Playing around with sox.exe I couldn't figure it out.

Somewhere I think someone said make a .bat file and then drag and drop all the files I wanted to batch onto the .bat icon in explorer...but I couldn't figure out the code in that .bat file to make it output separate files with the same filename as the input files nor to a directory of my choice. I could get it to output all the input files (*.flac) into one giant outputted .wav

I need to learn how to loop

Thanks again for all the help.
  • Last Edit: 07 December, 2016, 10:13:14 AM by bmcelvan

Re: Should I dither? (Converting 24bit to 16bit FLAC)
Reply #27
Here I post an example of my batch file for conversion to 16/48. For 16/44.1 (which I use primarily for CDs) I would use the next command line (lower). Dither can be altered as desired. Also SoX filtering can be left at the default (95 passband, aliasing off) - if you omit the parameters -b -a (e.g. rate -v 48000/44100).
------
16/48
------
rem Example of how to do batch processing with SoX on MS-Windows.
rem
rem Place this file in the same folder as sox.exe (& rename it as appropriate).
rem You can then drag and drop a selection of files onto the batch file (or
rem onto a `short-cut' to it).
rem
rem In this example, the converted files end up in a folder called `converted',
rem but this, of course, can be changed, as can the parameters to the sox
rem command.

c:
cd %~dp0
mkdir "c:\music\Sox converted%~p1"
FOR %%A IN (%*) DO sox -V2 %%A -b 16 "c:\music\SoX converted%~p1%%~nxA" rate -v -b 88 48000 dither -f modified-e-weighted

---------
16/44.1
----------
FOR %%A IN (%*) DO sox -V2 %%A -b 16 "c:\music\SoX CD converted%~p1%%~nxA" rate -v  -b 92 -a 44100 dither
  • Last Edit: 07 December, 2016, 01:40:39 PM by jumpingjackflash5

  • Cavaille
  • [*][*][*][*]
Re: Should I dither? (Converting 24bit to 16bit FLAC)
Reply #28
Well, I will suggest something else. While it is indeed good practice to dither you might consider not doing it. Most music contains a noise floor around -60 dB (give or take 10 dB), that is well above the limit of a 16 bit system. Not dithering will save time if you have a lot of music to convert. Not much... but a little.

Effectively, most music is self-dithering. With additional dithering you just add noise.

Not dithering might get audible on fade-ins and fade-outs. But you're not listening exclusively to them with extremely high gain, I assume :)
marlene-d.blogspot.com

  • uselessladder
  • [*]
Re: Should I dither? (Converting 24bit to 16bit FLAC)
Reply #29
Hi,
I don't understand most of the technical aspects of this discussion and I've been doing these conversions by simply opening the 24-bit file in Audacity and exporting it as 16-bit. Is that acceptable? I can't tell any audible difference, but I haven't done a proper listening test.
last.fm/user/ihatepretending

  • Apesbrain
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Should I dither? (Converting 24bit to 16bit FLAC)
Reply #30
^ Interesting question. Yes, that is a fine way to do it:
http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=73599

  • greynol
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Global Moderator
Re: Should I dither? (Converting 24bit to 16bit FLAC)
Reply #31
"That is called "quantize error", and if you don't do anything about it the quantize error produces harmonic distortion."

??

...except that quantization error doesn't exactly produce harmonic distortion, now does it?!?

Sigh.
  • Last Edit: 29 December, 2016, 08:34:17 PM by greynol
Is 24-bit/192kHz good enough for your lo-fi vinyl, or do you need 32/384?

  • bmcelvan
  • [*][*]
Re: Should I dither? (Converting 24bit to 16bit FLAC)
Reply #32
Here I post an example of my batch file for conversion to 16/48. For 16/44.1 (which I use primarily for CDs) I would use the next command line (lower). Dither can be altered as desired. Also SoX filtering can be left at the default (95 passband, aliasing off) - if you omit the parameters -b -a (e.g. rate -v 48000/44100).
------
16/48
------
rem Example of how to do batch processing with SoX on MS-Windows.
rem
rem Place this file in the same folder as sox.exe (& rename it as appropriate).
rem You can then drag and drop a selection of files onto the batch file (or
rem onto a `short-cut' to it).
rem
rem In this example, the converted files end up in a folder called `converted',
rem but this, of course, can be changed, as can the parameters to the sox
rem command.

c:
cd %~dp0
mkdir "c:\music\Sox converted%~p1"
FOR %%A IN (%*) DO sox -V2 %%A -b 16 "c:\music\SoX converted%~p1%%~nxA" rate -v -b 88 48000 dither -f modified-e-weighted

---------
16/44.1
----------
FOR %%A IN (%*) DO sox -V2 %%A -b 16 "c:\music\SoX CD converted%~p1%%~nxA" rate -v  -b 92 -a 44100 dither
I just noticed this...I don't know how I missed it.

I wanted to say thank you very much...awesome stuff!!

Ben

  • Fairy
  • [*][*][*]
Re: Should I dither? (Converting 24bit to 16bit FLAC)
Reply #33
Convert 16 bit to 8 bit with and without dither. Choose the one you prefer (most likely the dithered version). Choose that setting for your conversion to 16 bit. The effect will however be a factor 256 smaller than the 16 to 8 bit conversion.

  • greynol
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Global Moderator
Re: Should I dither? (Converting 24bit to 16bit FLAC)
Reply #34
...to the point that it is no longer audible and therefore completely irrelevant.
Is 24-bit/192kHz good enough for your lo-fi vinyl, or do you need 32/384?