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Topic: Audigy 2 zs can not record Equalizer effect, all else OK (Read 5996 times) previous topic - next topic
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Audigy 2 zs can not record Equalizer effect, all else OK

Hi forum people,

Using Audigy 2 zs notebook card, neither with Audacity nor with Sonar can I record the notorious effect I hear when I enable the card's equalizer, which is hardware based, as I read.

I am surprised of not being able to do it. I have tried many ways, enable what you hear, all with internal sounds, no line-in, no mic input.

I have had one person from a Creative forum confirm that it is not recordable, but no more tecnical explanations.

I believe it has something to do with the hardware architecture, and would like to know more about this, if anyone can help.

I can record all other effects, such as ambient effect. Also can record OK  "karaoke" effects when I do input via microphone.

I get many output channels, and I can record them all in sonar, on different tracks, front rear, frontcenter....All is great, but I just CAN'T record the total sound I hear with the card's equalizer enabled.  And this is in the two speaker mode, to simplify things.

Can someone explain why, or even better, how I could record that?

I really like the sound I hear and would like to record as such, but no go so far.

I am sure it would record the total via cable out to another laptop, because I can hear it in the earphones or speakers, but that'd be anoter story, and probably have some loss of quality.

Thanks for any help.

Audigy 2 zs can not record Equalizer effect, all else OK

Reply #1 –
The equalizer of the ZS is solely post-processing of the output.  You will need to use a VST or DS EQ within Audacity or Sonar.
"You can fight without ever winning, but never win without a fight."  Neil Peart  'Resist'

Audigy 2 zs can not record Equalizer effect, all else OK

Reply #2 –
Quote from: dreamliner77 on
The equalizer of the ZS is solely post-processing of the output.  You will need to use a VST or DS EQ within Audacity or Sonar.


Hi and thank you for your reply dreamliner.

I tried a VST graphic equalizer from Voxengo, but the sound quality I get with the card's equalizer is noticeable much better. I have set the Voxengo values the same as the card's and still it's not quite the same.

Do you know of a way to force some software to catch that total sound (for recording) that goes out to the earphones, other than with a cable into an external recorder device?

Do you think it's possible? Do you know of a link to where the architecture describing this post-processing of the graphics equalizer, and why that is so? ...Seems to me that since the total sound is within the pc, there should be someway of recording it?

Do you think I maybe could record it using the internal realtek chip soundcard?...By the way, this thought just came to my mind as I post now, so I have not yet tried that.

Any other reader have some other suggestions?

Thanks.

Audigy 2 zs can not record Equalizer effect, all else OK

Reply #3 –
I don't fully understand the architecture, but the philosophy with most modern recording is to record with minimal processing and to add effects later during post-processing.  This means you never permanently "mess up" the original recording.  Typically, you simply want to "capture" and accurately digitize the signal going into the ADC (analog-to-digital converter). 

The recording software usually has no effect on sound quality, and that's the way most people want it!  A recording made with Audacity shouldn't sound any different from a recording made with Pro Tools.

In a recording studio, there may be some "analog" pre-processing (compression and EQ are common), but the digital signal usually goes straight to disc.



Audigy 2 zs can not record Equalizer effect, all else OK

Reply #4 –
Quote from: DVDdoug on
I don't fully understand the architecture, but the philosophy with most modern recording is to record with minimal processing and to add effects later during post-processing.  This means you never permanently "mess up" the original recording.  Typically, you simply want to "capture" and accurately digitize the signal going into the ADC (analog-to-digital converter). 

The recording software usually has no effect on sound quality, and that's the way most people want it!  A recording made with Audacity shouldn't sound any different from a recording made with Pro Tools.

In a recording studio, there may be some "analog" pre-processing (compression and EQ are common), but the digital signal usually goes straight to disc.


Thanks DVDdoug,

I understand what you explain..What I want to do is after I have done all my tracks, and have a resultant "master track"...If I play it, it still seems to me to sound better when I enable the card's equalizer...So I would like to record the sound as I hear it...I believe doing some equalization to a final mix is OK, and in this case, I am trying to record the final mix with the card's equalizer, if possible...And that's because I find it better than the equalization I can get with the software equalizer (which does indeed record).

The clarity? of the card's equalizer is very evident to me, when comparing by hearing, and I have moved the sliders to the same on both cases, and vried the software one without being able to match.

So I hope there's some trick somehow?

Audigy 2 zs can not record Equalizer effect, all else OK

Reply #5 –
A2Zs Notebook does have optical I/O ports. Does the EQ have effect in that path (it's possible that the EQ is bypassed when using digital I/O)?

If it does then, you could prepare a loop back using those optical input and output ports.

In software (Sonar),
- send the mix through optican output and
- receive it back to a new track through optical input and record
- set the new track output to none (otherwise its a looop) or analog output (if this is possible)

otherwis same through analog I/O is possible to do but as there ar DA and AD before you get it recorded (does this matter ...?)


There's also an utility called Velbac which you could try to send audio from Audigy to your onboard sound. I have never tried this utility by myself so, I can't say if the Audigy EQ is present in stream.

http://pages.globetrotter.net/samaust/Files/Tril-Velbac.html


kX project drivers allows better internal routings but, those don't support digital I/O for A2Zs Notebook.

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/kx-project-a...-support-forum/


Juha

Audigy 2 zs can not record Equalizer effect, all else OK

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Juha on
A2Zs Notebook does have optical I/O ports. Does the EQ have effect in that path (it's possible that the EQ is bypassed when using digital I/O)?

If it does then, you could prepare a loop back using those optical input and output ports.

In software (Sonar),
- send the mix through optican output and
- receive it back to a new track through optical input and record
- set the new track output to none (otherwise its a looop) or analog output (if this is possible)

otherwis same through analog I/O is possible to do but as there ar DA and AD before you get it recorded (does this matter ...?)


There's also an utility called Velbac which you could try to send audio from Audigy to your onboard sound. I have never tried this utility by myself so, I can't say if the Audigy EQ is present in stream.

http://pages.globetrotter.net/samaust/Files/Tril-Velbac.html


kX project drivers allows better internal routings but, those don't support digital I/O for A2Zs Notebook.

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/kx-project-a...-support-forum/


Juha


Hi Juha,
and, thanks for your reply!

I don't have the optical cables (where to get them?).

However, I will surely try to see if I can loop back into Sonar as you explain..That should do it if I can do it, because the total audio would be in the analog signal going to the headphones. I am not sure if feedback can be avoided. But I will see.

Good idea. Saves me from using another laptop.

Audigy 2 zs can not record Equalizer effect, all else OK

Reply #7 –
Quote from: Juha on
A2Zs Notebook does have optical I/O ports. Does the EQ have effect in that path (it's possible that the EQ is bypassed when using digital I/O)?

If it does then, you could prepare a loop back using those optical input and output ports.

In software (Sonar),
- send the mix through optican output and
- receive it back to a new track through optical input and record
- set the new track output to none (otherwise its a looop) or analog output (if this is possible)

otherwis same through analog I/O is possible to do but as there ar DA and AD before you get it recorded (does this matter ...?)


There's also an utility called Velbac which you could try to send audio from Audigy to your onboard sound. I have never tried this utility by myself so, I can't say if the Audigy EQ is present in stream.

http://pages.globetrotter.net/samaust/Files/Tril-Velbac.html


kX project drivers allows better internal routings but, those don't support digital I/O for A2Zs Notebook.

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/kx-project-a...-support-forum/


Juha


Hi Juha,

I was able to record the total as wanted via loopback of analog signal...Analog out back into line-in...I recorded in SonarLe in an audio track.

One thing, though, it was necessary to mute both the mic and line of the Audigy's SurroundMixer..The track at sonar does not have to have the output muted..And one must mute at the SurroundMixer, even if one mutes the output, otherwise feedback.

I also emailed Sam of the Velbac software and he said the software wouldn't do it, and had other comments too, and suggested the same loopback I had already done as you suggested.

Thanks again!

Audigy 2 zs can not record Equalizer effect, all else OK

Reply #8 –
Quote from: Mugro on
[

Hi Juha,

I was able to record the total as wanted via loopback of analog signal...Analog out back into line-in...I recorded in SonarLe in an audio track.

One thing, though, it was necessary to mute both the mic and line of the Audigy's SurroundMixer..The track at sonar does not have to have the output muted..And one must mute at the SurroundMixer, even if one mutes the output, otherwise feedback.

...

Thanks again!


You're welcome.

Are you using ASIO driver in Sonar (IIRC, A2Zs Notebook supports ASIO 16/48 (and 24/96 which had maybe some issues)).

Loopback connection with ASIO should work well if you place the loopback cable from, let's say, Rear L/R to LineIn L/R.

On Audigy SurroundMixer/Speaker settings panels,
- enable the LineIn port
- set the speaker mode at least 4/4.1 to get output through Rear as well (I don't remember if this PCMCIA device supported CMSS but if it does then to get the 4/4.1 surround as 2 x stereo then you need to set CMSS to StereoSurround (or something equal))

On Sonar, set
- to get Audigy Rear L/R output ports showen up in Sonar's track output devices list, assign those output ports through Sonar Audio device options.
- all data tracks to output through master bus
- master to output through Audigy Rear L/R
- new track take it's input through Audigy LineIn L/R
- new track output through Audigy Front L/R


Juha

Audigy 2 zs can not record Equalizer effect, all else OK

Reply #9 –
You could try something like Total Recorder http://www.highcriteria.com/

Although I'd try using various VST EQ's first.  Remember that not all EQ's are calibrated the same so the settings in the Audigy control panel may not copy exactly to another EQ.
"You can fight without ever winning, but never win without a fight."  Neil Peart  'Resist'

Audigy 2 zs can not record Equalizer effect, all else OK

Reply #10 –
Hi Juha,

I am using ASIO-2 drivers of the Card..The latest for XP...I have lately been using and learning of this little card quite assiduously lately and am very impressed with it. ...I've had it for a long time, but had used it only casually.

Yes, I can record from front to left, and all sorts of combinations are possible.

The latest creative drivers I find are OK...The 24/96 drivers thugh, I find is not multi-user, and does not support none of the processes that the card handles..Otherwise it works OK...But Sonar does not accept it (the 24/96) in ASIO, but Audacity does...Since I have a rather complex setup, I use SonarLE, not Audacity. I use 48K 24 bit in SonarLE. The ASIO-2 driver allo for full monitoring, indeed in this card, with NO LATENCY at all. So I can record simultaneously many tracks of audio and MIDI simultaneously without problems...I record simultaneously also the voice in a separate clean channel.

I've read your comment about KV drivers, and might try them later, if I feel I need to, or have some relaxed time, becaue I read it can reqire reinstallation of system? ..I am not ready for that, and would need to know more specifics on the advantages...For instance, would the effects and equalizer work with the kv driver?

I do have vsts's as said, but for some things I do, I want realtime effects...Some software vsts are not good for realtime playing of instruments.

Another thing, is the card having the harness output for F, L, and C speakers, DOES NOT prevent me from using the headphone jack, so I can still monitor.

The loopback that I did I did from the harness F (green jack) back into the line-in.

I next will try to loop from the HEADPHONE jack (directly at the card) and see if there's any difference..Probably not, unless you can tell me there is any difference (from headpohneOutlet) to Harness'FrontSpeaker (green receptacle) when Speakers are set for just TWO speakers (stereo)?

The other thing, is in Sonar, one must not have tracks for mic or line with Echo on, else feedback.

As said, turn off the Creative mic OFF and the Line-in OFF, and let Sonar tak over the inputs, and no feedback results at all.

Dremliner, I have only trie Voxengo GE and I tried the sliders much and set the bands identical to Creative's and still could not match the "clarity"?..I realize that this can be complex and tedious, but I am quite happy that this loopback works...But I still have much way to go into improving my results.

Juha, this little card is a wonder, with so many internal outputs and intputs, even though it has only 2 channels in. It's OK so far with me because I have external mixers, and basically I input only voice from a mic, and all the rest of the sounds are from internal synths, which I can route to different outputs and thus have separate tracks pretty much at will.

Thanks everyone.

Audigy 2 zs can not record Equalizer effect, all else OK

Reply #11 –
Hi dear people, again:

I am interested in the optical/digital cable as suggested, what is it and where to buy it?

Is then the headphone port the optical-out, and the mic/lin port be the optical-in?

IMPORTANT: In Sonar LE I see InputDrivers: Creative ASIO SPDIF in L
but I don't see any SPDIF in the OutputDrivers.
Would this preclude me from doint the optical loop out-in?


Thanks!

Audigy 2 zs can not record Equalizer effect, all else OK

Reply #12 –
Dear friends,

I just found out that this card also has Advanced Equalizer (hardware based) which IS RECORDABLE!

And, it comes with several good patterns, and one can make custom ones and name them.
Also, it sounds very, very good.

So, this simplifies what I was trying to do very much.

I still am interested in the above question concerning what cable to use for optical in/out.

Thanks!

Audigy 2 zs can not record Equalizer effect, all else OK

Reply #13 –
If you have the User's Guide for A2 Zs Notebook ... (it can also be downloaded from Creative support)

Standard optical cable and two Toslink to optical mini adapers is needed.

Toslink To Optical Mini Adapter:




Juha

Audigy 2 zs can not record Equalizer effect, all else OK

Reply #14 –
Quote from: Juha on
If you have the User's Guide for A2 Zs Notebook ... (it can also be downloaded from Creative support)

Standard optical cable and two Toslink to optical mini adapers is needed.

Toslink To Optical Mini Adapter:




Juha


Thank you Juha!

I will see of getting the two adapters and a cable for further uses.

I downloaded the guide (help file format) but it does not work. It opens the contents, but the pages don't open.

If you happen to know why, would appreciate your help there too.

Audigy 2 zs can not record Equalizer effect, all else OK

Reply #15 –
It's a security policy in your Windows install. Some type of files are not secure, by the system default, until you allow it.

Right-mouse-click the document file and select Properties ... there's an option (button) you can switch this type (.chm) document become secure.

Juha
 

Audigy 2 zs can not record Equalizer effect, all else OK

Reply #16 –
Quote from: Juha on
It's a security policy in your Windows install. Some type of files are not secure, by the system default, until you allow it.

Right-mouse-click the document file and select Properties ... there's an option (button) you can switch this type (.chm) document become secure.

Juha


Thanks juha, will try it when I get to the music making laptop! I trust it will do.