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Topic: "Recording Industry Eyes 'Smart' CDs" (Read 11995 times) previous topic - next topic
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"Recording Industry Eyes 'Smart' CDs"

LOL!      The terms "recording industry" and "smart" in the same sentence.  I love oxymorons.

Recording Industry Eyes 'Smart' CDs

Is this anything new?  Or some "recycled" technology?  I couldn't tell for sure from the article.  Maybe for clarity, they should make all their encryption algorithms open-source, so we can...uh...so we can all fairly know what we're buying...yeah, that's the ticket.   

Anyway:  "SunnComm says that most people, unless they are hackers or truly determined, won't be able to circumvent the limits, including one that keeps songs locked so they can't be played even if they circulate over file-sharing networks."

And if I weren't truly determined, but still loved my hobby of encoding my music collection in a different format once per month, then this wouldn't be fair.  I'm no hacker, but I'm sure glad that I am truly determined, and therefore won't be affected by this.   

Forward The Revolution...Cindy Cohn for President...Put Cary Sherman Out Of A Job.

"Recording Industry Eyes 'Smart' CDs"

Reply #1
After reading the article, it says:

Quote
With MediaMax CD-3, each song is written onto the CD twice - once in a format readable by standard CD players and the other as a Windows media file playable on a computer.

BMG has set up the CD so fans can burn each track three times per computer. Songs can also be e-mailed to a limited number of people, who can then listen to the song up to 10 times apiece.


So to me, it sounds like more of the same crap: the tracks will be there both in standard CD audio format, with a last track with the songs in crappy WMA with DRM enabled...

Sounds like this one will fail miserably too, and without a sweat, I might add...

The only possible pleasant change is that the WMA format chosen might maybe be of a decent bitrate instead of the 64kbps crap that they have used in previous similar attempts...

Quote
LOL!  The terms "recording industry" and "smart" in the same sentence. I love oxymorons.


So yeah, this sentence is still perfectly correct

"Recording Industry Eyes 'Smart' CDs"

Reply #2
It is the same as CDS200, that fails miserably, since many drives can read the CD anyway, without any hack, not even the marker trick, exept that they lowered the encryption of the WMA files to allow several copies of them.

BTW, they're not 64 kbps, but 48 kbps !

"Recording Industry Eyes 'Smart' CDs"

Reply #3
Indeed, it's recycled technology. What they want to say is that despite the copy protection you will be allowed to burn to Audio CD (3x) and share/send them over the network where they can be listened (10x). To defeat the argument that these CD's can't be played on computers or copied for personal use.
The point is you don't want  the WMA files..

BTW: And they forgot something: the Audio-CD's you can burn (from the WMA?) will be unprotected (source)

[span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%']Edit: typo[/span]
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.

"Recording Industry Eyes 'Smart' CDs"

Reply #4
Quote
What if they put copy protection in the disc and it doesn't ... reverse the decline of CD sales?" asked Phil Leigh, an analyst at Inside Digital Media. "If it doesn't help it's likely to hurt by just annoying people.


I think this is the key quote from the article.

edit: Of course this won't help "CD" sales at all since the trademark holder of "CD" (Philips) doesn't allow its use on copy protected disks which don't meet the standards.  Non-CD music disk sales may rebound.

"Recording Industry Eyes 'Smart' CDs"

Reply #5
Well, obviously the copies will certainly NOT be protected (unless you use CloneCD or something like that... but who would do so for Audio CDs? I guess many people...  ).

And you would be INSANE to create an Audio CD from 48 kbps WMAs!!!        (Thanks for the correction, Pio2001... it´s even scarier!!!)

By the way, how many expect to start seeing these WMA files to appear around P2P networks inside a Zip file? I pity whoever downloads them...

Or even worse: 1337 192Kbps CBR Stereo mp3 files transcoded from these WMA files!!! Eeeeeeek!!!  MEGA

Well, they might destroy P2P networks this way

"Recording Industry Eyes 'Smart' CDs"

Reply #6
IMHO, any costumer in the world doesn't want to pay for false-CDS, but the industry keep releasing them in various "flavors", since they never followed the golden rule of doing health business:
1) The customer is always right
2) When customer is wrong, refer to #1

Promptly putting my money on anything they sell? NO.
The solution is very simple and belong to all of us.

edit: typos
"Jazz washes away the dust of everyday life" (Art Blakey)


"Recording Industry Eyes 'Smart' CDs"

Reply #8
In Brazil, a copy protected cd may cost up to $9-10 dollars, in a country where the minimum wage is 80.00 dollars a month. 
No need to say why many people there dont care about copyrights and recording companies.
"Jazz washes away the dust of everyday life" (Art Blakey)

"Recording Industry Eyes 'Smart' CDs"

Reply #9
Mods: should this be in off-topic? Sounds more like CD Hardware to me...

"Recording Industry Eyes 'Smart' CDs"

Reply #10
Quote
they cite "external testing" that demonstrated "'an incredible level of security for the music,'"


Quote
  • Computers running Linux or Mac OS 9 can't run the MediaMax software at all, so they can always copy the recording.

  • Many users disable the autorun feature [11] (autostart on Mac OS), so their systems will be able to copy the disc unless the user manually launches MediaMax.

  • Windows users who haven't disabled autorun can suspend it when they play a SunnComm-protected disc by holding down the shift key for a few seconds while inserting the CD. They can then copy the data normally. (This won't work if the driver is active because the user has accepted the SunnComm EULA or because MediaMax ran since the system booted. However, affected users can still copy the disc by manually disabling the driver using a procedure like the one above.)

In all these cases, the audio tracks are left unprotected.



This is indeed an "incredible level of security". Quite hard to believe

"Recording Industry Eyes 'Smart' CDs"

Reply #11
Quote
This is indeed an "incredible level of security". Quite hard to believe

Here's an article which I think describes quite well the RIAA's "technical prowess" as an organization, based on the results of their efforts to stop software piracy (as of Jan 2003, at least).

Excerpt, referencing defacements to the RIAA website which occurred prior to the article's publish date...

>>> Some security experts said in no uncertain terms that the latest defacements indicate the RIAA is clueless about technology. They charge that this ignorance has resulted in the RIAA attempting to combat digital file sharing in ineffective, counter-productive ways. <<<

Another excerpt (this one's somewhat OT, but interesting to note)...

>>> Ferrell and others predicted that if the RIAA escalates its antipiracy efforts, the organization's site will be completely knocked off the Internet.

"The RIAA honestly has no idea what they're up against. They will be toast the first time they try to shut down a P2P network being used by any serious black hats," Ferrell said.
<<<

"Recording Industry Eyes 'Smart' CDs"

Reply #12
But the thing is, those "protected" (better say corrupted) discs are much more fragile, so in the incredible event of customers actually paying for it, they MUST back it up as a true format compliant CDA, and maybe then make a backup copy of this disc, disregarding the "original" at all. In fact, as it has been said many times, "non legit" copies are now better quality, because they are true CDA, and will stand wear normally.

So in other words, anyone who is crazy enough to buy the "legit" thing, is in the obligation to do everything to make a more reliable backup, or risk losing the money.

On the other hand, people should demand format compliant discs to the labels or threat with boycott. This is how the big labels treat their customers, lower quality with higher costs. This is why they built their power for, and why they control the politicians for. Just like Microsoft, these people don't believe in selling quality, since for them its not a "good business strategy". Better to sell cheap unreliable (and intangible) items (with outrageous prices) that quickly degrade so they come to buy more...
She is waiting in the air

"Recording Industry Eyes 'Smart' CDs"

Reply #13
I will never buy a CD that doesn't carry the Phillips Compact Disk logo.

"Recording Industry Eyes 'Smart' CDs"

Reply #14
Anyway if those jokers on P2P networks couldn't get past copy protection I'm sure they wouldn't mind analog extraction, when you rip burst @ 128kbps there's no diffrence it may even help mask errors.

"Recording Industry Eyes 'Smart' CDs"

Reply #15
Actually this copy protection is non-existant as long as you don't have autorun on. (Which most knowledgeable users turn off anyway).

It seems as though the actual CD is not damaged, but it installs a driver    in YOUR OS, to prevent the cd from being copied.
"You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you."

"Recording Industry Eyes 'Smart' CDs"

Reply #16
Quote
It seems as though the actual CD is not damaged, but it installs a driver    in YOUR OS, to prevent the cd from being copied.

This is actually worse than just messing with the audio data on the CD, IMHO.
Because, this time, they are messing with YOUR property.
Does it even warn the user about this?
I'm guessing not.

And Windows should have auto insert notification disabled by default anyway.
I'm the one in the picture, sitting on a giant cabbage in Mexico, circa 1978.
Reseñas de Rock en Español: www.estadogeneral.com

"Recording Industry Eyes 'Smart' CDs"

Reply #17
Quote
>>> Some security experts said in no uncertain terms that the latest defacements indicate the RIAA is clueless about technology. They charge that this ignorance has resulted in the RIAA attempting to combat digital file sharing in ineffective, counter-productive ways. <<<

"The RIAA honestly has no idea what they're up against. They will be toast the first time they try to shut down a P2P network being used by any serious black hats," Ferrell said.[/i] <<<

The thing is that the RIAA is still focusing its guns on the "casual pirate", so to speak, instead of focusing on the Organized Crime behind REAL piracy.

In my country (Mexico), for example, you see bootleggers everywhere, selling $1 dollar (some even go down to $0.60 if you buy enough quantity). This has nothing to do with P2P and hurts the industry more than 10 schools worth of 12-year olds downloading 24/7.
Of course this people are professional pirates, with top-of-the-line equipment, they smuggle tons of blank CD-Rs from China and Taiwan and have dozens of people working around the clock to mass-produce copies of Music CDs.

How are they gonna stop them? Harder law enforcement could work, for sure, but would it raise sales in a country such as this, with such low incomes?
Prices should go down if thay want to save this industry, and better artist development.
No more "I'm going to record my CD to Spain and I am going to be there for 5 months with my 20-person entourage, staying at a super expensive hotel, and I don't care if the resulting CD is a piece-of-crap, a huge advertising campaign will try to convice people otherwise, and if it still doesn't sell, let's blame it on those filthy pirates".

You should listen to the crap Mexican radio plays this days. No wonder there is noone willing to pay full price for this shit. Piracy has just made it more difficult for labels to deceive people into buying worthless music.

When they have low enough prices, when they stop paying themselves such high salaries and having those disproportionate campaings to "help" lousy artists (and when they stop releasing some of the crap that they do), I will buy their arguments.

And I do spend a LOT of money on original CDs (mostly independent labels, which are the ones that have the music I like) to back my opinion.
I'm the one in the picture, sitting on a giant cabbage in Mexico, circa 1978.
Reseñas de Rock en Español: www.estadogeneral.com

"Recording Industry Eyes 'Smart' CDs"

Reply #18
Quote
But the thing is, those "protected" (better say corrupted) discs are much more fragile, so in the incredible event of customers actually paying for it, they MUST back it up as a true format compliant CDA, and maybe then make a backup copy of this disc, disregarding the "original" at all.

Well apparently the fact is that the BMG CD could wear the CD Digital Audio logo since it is a simple CD Extra (Audio + Data), fully respecting the norm.

The data portion installs a driver via autorun. Maybe it is said in the EULA, but who reads it? 

And I bet that if you backup the whole CD you would have a copy with the same "feature".

On that "protection" I thank BMG to have made the least annoying system. And content respectful.

I can't say the same for EMI's that I'll try to get my CD changed for a non protected one through their exchange program. (But I need to find a CD player that won't read it to complain  no luck so far  Hum haven't tried my LD player  )

"Recording Industry Eyes 'Smart' CDs"

Reply #19
I've just bought Dido - Life for rent, in the UK. It's a BMG disc with "Copy Control" on it.

I thought it might be this new copy protection, but it appears to be Macrovision CDS-200.

Anyway, I've tried and tried, but I can't make it work! I've let it auto run, I've enabled the fastest burst rip mode I can, but still the copy protection doesn't work - whatever I do, it copies perfectly!


So what exactly is this CDS-200 supposed to do?*


There's a BMG website for the copy protection, and an email form if the disc doesn't work properly. I'm going to contact them I think...

"Dear BMG - you sold me this new disc, and claimed that it had copy protection on it. Unfortunately, it seems to be faulty, because I can copy it perfectly. Can you explain to me how to get the copy protection working? ;-)"

Cheers,
David.

* (it's a rhetorical question - I have read the FAQ)

"Recording Industry Eyes 'Smart' CDs"

Reply #20
Quote
There's a BMG website for the copy protection, and an email form if the disc doesn't work properly. I'm going to contact them I think...

"Dear BMG - you sold me this new disc, and claimed that it had copy protection on it. Unfortunately, it seems to be faulty, because I can copy it perfectly. Can you explain to me how to get the copy protection working? ;-)"

LOL!   

You could really get their knickers in a wad if you tell them something like, "In the interest of thorough analysis and testing, I cloned the disc for ten of my friends to try, but they couldn't get the copy protection to work either.  What gives?"

Yesterday I bought Natalie Imbruglia's White Lilies Island, which (I thought) was supposed to employ BMG's copy protection even in it's US release.  I put it in, started EAC and hit F5.  No "Detect TOC Manually" was required as all tracks showed up fine with the correct durations.  But extraction was *very* slow, and equally slow for all tracks.  At first, I was thinking maybe there was no copy-protection, and I just had a damaged track on the disc, but all tracks extracted exactly the same way (0.4x speed, top row of red error blocks repeatedly lighting up the entire time), so something else had to be happening.  The disc looks fine, BTW (no significant scratches, etc.).  After the ~2 hours of extraction time, the resulting WAV files sounded fine to me, with no pops or clicks I could detect.  So I encoded to Vorbis and kept my WAVs, which later I'll archive in FLAC...I don't want to wait 2 hours again if I ever need to re-extract the content.

I'm searching the web now (and the BMG site) to try to confirm whether the US release of this CD was protected somehow.  The CD, case and insert have no indication of copy-protection (other than a "BMG" logo), and the case has the "Compact Disc Digital Audio" logo on it.

I have many CDs newer than 1999 released by BMG.  Is the experience with this Natalie Imbruglia CD evidence of BMG's "friendly" copy-protection?  Or is there another explanation for the strange extraction activity?

"Recording Industry Eyes 'Smart' CDs"

Reply #21
All plastic cases have the compact disc digital audio logo on them - it's the discs and inserts that may not.

Though looking through a selection of discs, there are a lot of recent releases on all labels that don't have the compact disc digital audio logo on the disc or packaging - do they all have copy protection, or do companies just not bother including it any more?


The Dido disc has a "Copy Control" sticker on the front, and a table on the back saying what you can and cannot do with the disc...

(picture of stereo system)
CD audio home player: tick
Others: <100%.
(picture of computer)
PCs: min Win 95/64 MB RAM, Pentium II 233
Mac: -
Others: -

Info: http://www.bmg-copycontrol.info/


It's the software itself (a little player, with 128kbps WMA files) which mentions the vendor and process.

Cheers,
David.

"Recording Industry Eyes 'Smart' CDs"

Reply #22
Quote
Yesterday I bought Natalie Imbruglia's White Lilies Island, which (I thought) was supposed to employ BMG's copy protection even in it's US release.

(...)

(0.4x speed, top row of red error blocks repeatedly lighting up the entire time),

Natalie Imbruglia's CD doesn't use the new BMG protection (it was out long before this new protection) but CDS200.

Thus, because of C2 errors, EAC unusefully tries to correct everything. Uncheck C2, or just use burst mode to copy this CD.


"Recording Industry Eyes 'Smart' CDs"

Reply #24
SunnComm can threaten to rape him as badly as they like, but I doubt they'll survive long enough to back it up.