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Topic: 24bit 96khz to 44.1khz using foobar and SoX resampler (Read 16226 times) previous topic - next topic
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24bit 96khz to 44.1khz using foobar and SoX resampler

I have this source audio with 24-bit depth and 96khz freq as a wav file.
With the resampler, I encoded it to 16 bit 44.1khz.
Settings were:
Passband(I don't know what this is for) - 95% default
Best
Dithering - Always(read somewhere this is needed for depth changes)
16bit 44.1khz

But the result is different from retail version of the same CD album (16bit 44.1khz).
Peaks of my version are clipped at the top and sound somewhat noisy, whereas the retail looks like having compressed and sounds more comfortable.

How do I downsample properly like the studio did?
Can anyone help?

Re: 24bit 96khz to 44.1khz using foobar and SoX resampler

Reply #1
I was experiencing slightly similar results. Asked here about dither and have been told not to bother with dither algorithms - foobar one works fine.

You can try the sound without dithering or using dbpoweramp/ssrc exampler, the SoX one I think is more audible ....

Re: 24bit 96khz to 44.1khz using foobar and SoX resampler

Reply #2
And one more thing: your 24/96 master sounds the same as your CD master?

Re: 24bit 96khz to 44.1khz using foobar and SoX resampler

Reply #3
According to the store, yes it is (Édition Studio Masters).

Re: 24bit 96khz to 44.1khz using foobar and SoX resampler

Reply #4
I was experiencing slightly similar results. Asked here about dither and have been told not to bother with dither algorithms - foobar one works fine.

You can try the sound without dithering or using dbpoweramp/ssrc exampler, the SoX one I think is more audible ....
Thanks! Do you know what Passband is for?

Re: 24bit 96khz to 44.1khz using foobar and SoX resampler

Reply #5
Unfortunately not.

Also would like to have optimal combination of "transparent" conversion.

Re: 24bit 96khz to 44.1khz using foobar and SoX resampler

Reply #6
Also here the resamplers are compared http://audiophilesoft.ru/publ/my/foo_resamplers/11-1-0-34

But the tampering between the resamplers/ditherers is very time consuming and what more, the results are hard to judge.

So it would be beneficial to have some recommended options for the best quality-preserving CD (redbook) conversion.

Re: 24bit 96khz to 44.1khz using foobar and SoX resampler

Reply #7
And one more thing: your 24/96 master sounds the same as your CD master?
According to the store, yes it is (Édition Studio Masters).

Does it really sounds the same? No matter what store says. I guess not.

Sox with passband 95% and best quality and dithering actually gives transparent conversion.
Sox with passband 95% preserves high frequencies up to ~20047 Hz and passband 99% will preserve frequencies up to ~21829 Hz.

the SoX one I think is more audible ....
Your assumption is wrong.

Re: 24bit 96khz to 44.1khz using foobar and SoX resampler

Reply #8
Code: [Select]
sox infile -b 16 outfile rate 44100 dither -s

That is the recommended default setting for downsampling to CD quality. It will give audibly transparent results.

Re: 24bit 96khz to 44.1khz using foobar and SoX resampler

Reply #9
And one more thing: your 24/96 master sounds the same as your CD master?
According to the store, yes it is (Édition Studio Masters).

Does it really sounds the same? No matter what store says. I guess not.

Sox with passband 95% and best quality and dithering actually gives transparent conversion.
Sox with passband 95% preserves high frequencies up to ~20047 Hz and passband 99% will preserve frequencies up to ~21829 Hz.

the SoX one I think is more audible ....
Your assumption is wrong.

So if i compare dbwpoweramp/ssrc and SOX resampler, which is better for CD conversions and why ?

Re: 24bit 96khz to 44.1khz using foobar and SoX resampler

Reply #10
So if i compare dbwpoweramp/ssrc and SOX resampler, which is better for CD conversions and why ?
dbwpoweramp/ssrc is more "precise" but there will be no audible differences, believe it or not. So, they are equally good for CD conversion.

Re: 24bit 96khz to 44.1khz using foobar and SoX resampler

Reply #11
If dbpoweramp/ssrc is more precise, then it makes sense to keep using it for CD resampling.

Jan

Re: 24bit 96khz to 44.1khz using foobar and SoX resampler

Reply #12
Seems like anyone hearing noise these days by eye.
Make a silent file and use foobar dither use the same file with TPDF. Crank it up and listen. Tell us what you hear, not see.
Is troll-adiposity coming from feederism?
With 24bit music you can listen to silence much louder!

Re: 24bit 96khz to 44.1khz using foobar and SoX resampler

Reply #13
Just a general remark - what you hear does not have always to correlate with what is correctly encoded. E.g. some common soundcards/dacs could sound better/worse at certain sample rates (or even bits resolution) regardless of the actual FLAC content (rate chosen). Which makes it hard to use only your ears, as not everybody has the reference high quality equipment.

Jan

Re: 24bit 96khz to 44.1khz using foobar and SoX resampler

Reply #14
So is there nothing else has studio done to the source audio while converting to 44.1khz?
My peaks are clipped at the top...
Just a different source?

Re: 24bit 96khz to 44.1khz using foobar and SoX resampler

Reply #15
So is there nothing else has studio done to the source audio while converting to 44.1khz?
In studio they could use anyhting they wanted (compressor, limiter etc.) when created final master for CD. And you can't know what exactly they used.

Re: 24bit 96khz to 44.1khz using foobar and SoX resampler

Reply #16
So is there nothing else has studio done to the source audio while converting to 44.1khz?
In studio they could use anyhting they wanted (compressor, limiter etc.) when created final master for CD. And you can't know what exactly they used.
then if I want a clearer(..u know..) 16-bit audio for my portable device I'd better not encoding from 24bit, right?

Re: 24bit 96khz to 44.1khz using foobar and SoX resampler

Reply #17
Indeed the CD master may be from a different source or just not processed the same way as the 24/96 version. In fact it's pretty typical for the "HD" version to have been remastered so as to ensure it sounds different and thus "better". Otherwise people would be disappointed to find out that they can't actually hear the difference between 24/96 and 16/44.1.

If you don't change the sample rate, and just convert from 24/96 to 16/96, does the clipping still happen?  If not, then you know the issue is in the sample rate conversion, not the bit depth reduction.

Re: 24bit 96khz to 44.1khz using foobar and SoX resampler

Reply #18
Otherwise people would be disappointed to find out that they can't actually hear the difference between 24/96 and 16/44.1.
Just like they're not disappointed with the sound of flacs compared with the original unprocessed wave files?

Re: 24bit 96khz to 44.1khz using foobar and SoX resampler

Reply #19
Which makes it hard to use only your ears, as not everybody has the reference high quality equipment.
Oh, yes we must rely on casual sighted evaluations instead of blind testing because you can't otherwise tell unless you have golden-ear approved gear.  What a complete load of horseshit.

Re: 24bit 96khz to 44.1khz using foobar and SoX resampler

Reply #20
Well, I know that I am probably considered as "trying to see only with eye" on this forum ... I do not want to discuss it deeply, but I think that sometimes the graphs and e.g. pictures in Spek software also say something. I fully agree that ABX testing is very very important but I dont think that it is the single holy grail.

As for this topic, I was trying the available options and can recommend using SoX even without foobar conversion GUI - on command line (and batch processing of multiple files  which works great in by drag and drop Explorer to created batch file ). This way also the dither algorithm can be selected. As discussed already, foobars native dither although excellent for lowering noise at <14-15 KhZ  frequencies is a little bit noisy and having higher amplitude (as already discussed here http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/downsample-convert-hi-res-24-bit-to-16-bit-with-audacity-or-foobar2000.403739/ and here http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/neil-young-on-digital-audio-youre-doing-it-wrong.348996/page-16#post-10411665  ), so I can use either modified-e-weighted filter (my command line lower), or plain TPDF (also was considering low-shibata/gesemann, as the differences are subtle).

sox -V2 test.wav -b 16 "converted/Test.wav" rate -v 44100 dither -f modified-e-weighted

If somebody has further hints on the quality of conversion and/or dithering, I think that it is not against this forum to discuss here, if it is so, then the moderators can recommend another thread where it should - if desired - continue.

Re: 24bit 96khz to 44.1khz using foobar and SoX resampler

Reply #21
Sounds like the OP is just clipping the track during resampling/dither. Use sox on the command line, it will warn you when clipping occurs. Here is a 24/48 to 16/44 conversion I just tried of a loud song:

$ sox copyofa_24_48.wav -b 16 copy_of_a_16_44.wav rate -v 44100
sox WARN rate: rate clipped 4886 samples; decrease volume?
sox WARN dither: dither clipped 4255 samples; decrease volume?

Adding the --guard or -G option to sox will make it lower the track volume enough to avoid clipping.

Re: 24bit 96khz to 44.1khz using foobar and SoX resampler

Reply #22
Another good point for SoX command line.

Re: 24bit 96khz to 44.1khz using foobar and SoX resampler

Reply #23
Another good point for SoX command line.
It is nothing new. Mentioned often enough here. I still don't see a sample from jamsig2 that shows anything audibly changed from resampling.

If clipping is seen in the resampled file it was mostly there in the source already.
Ever wondered why many recordings have the exact same peak max over several songs? The last step was a level change to hide clipping to Audacity cowboys.
Many times in this forum was asked what to do about this but i have not seen anyone bringing a sample that demonstrates audibility of clipping from going 24/96 to 16/44.1

I really like to have a harder #TOS8 enforcement because many noobs palaver around to much.
Is troll-adiposity coming from feederism?
With 24bit music you can listen to silence much louder!

Re: 24bit 96khz to 44.1khz using foobar and SoX resampler

Reply #24
I dont want to dance around TOS 8 and maybe when I have time I will conduct a test, but from the recent experience the various forms of dither (no dither - tpdf - foobars dither) are definitely audible under some conditions. Of course those conditions are debatable.

Some references

https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,74651.0.html
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,81467.0.html

Generally I do not think that is a good philosophy of the forum to force the people to prove everything on all threads by their own ABX tests (when you discuss megapixel count at digital cameras you also do not force the people to take and compare photos of their lcds or paper prints), although I fully agree that they are very very important for telling what can be actually heard or not on specific equipment. Maybe some threads/subforums should be TOS 8 strict and some not.

By the way, it seems to me (just testing now) that SoX resampler can be added as a command line to Foobars converter, making possible to utilize the full command line version for convert operation with more options. But as I have written, the batch conversion by drag and drop to SoX customized batch works also well.

Jan