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Topic: Lame 3.95 -aps = stereo mode, not joint stereo? (Read 9153 times) previous topic - next topic
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Lame 3.95 -aps = stereo mode, not joint stereo?

A guy I know is using lame 3.95.1 -aps for his encodings (he will not/can't change lame version), and I noticed that they are in full stereo mode, according to encspot and fb2k. I find this very strange. Why was full stereo used for the this lame version and the -aps setting?

The 3.95.1 version is not mentioned in the pinned post by JohnV - http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=28125 - what are the opinions on this version?


edit: changed the version to 3.95.1, as it wasn't 3.95 as he told me.

Lame 3.95 -aps = stereo mode, not joint stereo?

Reply #1
He must be using either --alt-preset standard -m s or --preset standard -m s for some screwy reason. That is the only way to get non-joint stereo with 3.95 aps. The default, and best, setting with 3.95 aps is -m j (built-in and defaulted, so it doesn't need to be typed in).

As to why the guy you know used -m s, you'd have to ask him. Most likely, he is among the many misinformed who think that "full stereo" (so-called) is somehow better than joint stereo (which it isn't).

EDIT: After 3.93.1, the next significant version is 3.96/3.96.1, which is stable, and should be used instead of 3.95. You should sabotage your friend's machine, and force him to abandon 3.95 (LOL).

Regards,
Madrigal

Lame 3.95 -aps = stereo mode, not joint stereo?

Reply #2
Well, he's using Easy cd-da which uses a dll, so he can't change any options for the presets. Could it really be that preset standard is wrongly set to use stereo insted of joint stereo?

If -V 2 mapped to preset standard in 3.95, I guess it would be better to set the dll to use -V 2 (and to be sure also specify joint stereo)?

Could it be the that the lame tag is messed up, and that joint stereo is in fact used? What does nssafejoint mean?

The lame tag from one of the encodes:
Code: [Select]
Tag revision:        0
Version string:      3.95
Quality:             80 (V2 and q0)
Encoding method:     vbr old / vbr rh
Lowpass:             19 000Hz
RG track peak:       <not stored>
RG track gain:       +0.0dB (determined automatically)
RG album gain:       <not stored>
nspsytune:           yes
nssafejoint:         yes
nogap continued:     no
nogap continuation:  no
ATH type:            4
Bitrate:             minimal (-b) bitrate 96
Encoder delay:       576 samples
Padded at end:       1 944 samples
Noise shaping:       1
Stereo mode:         stereo
Unwise settings:     no
Source sample freq:  44.1kHz
MP3Gain change:      <none>
Preset:              V2: preset standard
Surround info:       none
Music length:        6 156 930 bytes
Music CRC:           5FF0
Actual Music CRC:    EE0A
Info tag CRC:        46B1
Actual Info Tag CRC: 46B1

Lame 3.95 -aps = stereo mode, not joint stereo?

Reply #3
Best solution would be for him to switch to EAC, which is a better ripper, is free, and can use lame.exe with precise command lines. Unless Easy cd-da can do the same (which I don't know for sure), then it really sucks.

He should be using EAC in secure mode anyway, and lame.exe with the command line --preset standard (with no -m s added), for optimal results until 3.97 stable is released.

Regards,
Madrigal

Lame 3.95 -aps = stereo mode, not joint stereo?

Reply #4
There's no reason to discuss his choice of ripper and encoder, he won't/can't change that.

Please someone, look at my actual questions...

Lame 3.95 -aps = stereo mode, not joint stereo?

Reply #5
If easy CDDA uses the lame_enc.dll then he CAN switch lame versions. In case that easy CDDA automatically adds the stereo-switch, then you can also try the lame 3.90.3 hardwired INI-modification to force easy CDDA to use plain simple APS without any modifications.

- Lyx
I am arrogant and I can afford it because I deliver.

Lame 3.95 -aps = stereo mode, not joint stereo?

Reply #6
There's no reason to discuss his choice of ripper and encoder, he won't/can't change that. Period.

Please someone, look at my actual questions...


Edit: I'll put them here for easier access.

1. I have some files that are encoded with a lame 3.95.1 dll and --alt-preset standard. They are in full stereo mode, according to the lame tag and Encspot.
Question: Why did it end up this way? (Are the settings actually wrong or is it the lame tag/encspot readings that are faulty?)

2. The 3.95.1 version is not mentioned in the pinned post by JohnV - http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=28125
Question: What are the opinions on this (3.95.1) version?

3. Question: If -V 2 is mapped to preset standard in 3.95.1, I guess it would be better to set the dll to use -V 2 (and to be completely sure also specify joint stereo)?

4. Question: What does nssafejoint mean (in the above lame tag)?


Edit 2: I managed to find the same version of the program that he's using, 6.5.0.1, and the lame dll states: "LAME 3.95.1 Presets Enabled".

After doing various encodings, I've discovered that using the preset standard setting is equivalent with using -V 2, q 0 and dual stereo. How strange is that? The commandline encoder with -aps shows usage of -V 2, q 3 and joint stereo as expected.

I guess it's quite clear that it's something wrong with the dll or the interface - they don't use the preset at all. Unfortunately the dll is broken in the way that using -V 2, q 3 and joint stereo in the 3.95.1 dll does not produce identical files to that of the command line encoder with the same settings (which are identical to -aps). They are very close in bitrate, but shows different use of bit reservoir and small differences in bit allocation. eff yuu see kay. I've heard bad things about poikosoft before, but not on a technical level. This sucks.

Lame 3.95 -aps = stereo mode, not joint stereo?

Reply #7
Well, then you have bad luck. LAME 3.95 doesn't do that as far as i know, so either easy CDDA is borked or your friend added stupid switches. In case easy CDDA is borked, you're lost because you dont want to change the encoder-DLL.

- Lyx
I am arrogant and I can afford it because I deliver.

Lame 3.95 -aps = stereo mode, not joint stereo?

Reply #8
Quote
Well, he's using Easy cd-da which uses a dll, so he can't change any options for the presets.

Not true.
The latest version of Easy CD-DA Extractor (8.0.2) uses LAME DLL 3.96.1.
Joint stereo--along with many other quality settings-- can be easily configured.

Edit: BTW, nssafejoint is described here:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=683

Lame 3.95 -aps = stereo mode, not joint stereo?

Reply #9
Quote
Quote
Well, he's using Easy cd-da which uses a dll, so he can't change any options for the presets.

Not true.
The latest version of Easy CD-DA Extractor (8.0.2) uses LAME DLL 3.96.1.
Joint stereo--along with many other quality settings-- can be easily configured.

Edit: BTW, nssafejoint is described here:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=683
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Ok, thanks for the link, but I've already read it and it doesn't explain what nssafejoint is. I've read some twenty posts where nsssafejoint is mentioned, but I still don't know what it is.

And I don't need _any_ advice at all on different rippers or encoders, _please_! I had some questions on the 3.95.1 lame encoder, that's it, nothing more. After finding and testing the ripper and encoder in question, I managed to answer some of them myself, but not all, like what this nssafejoint in the lame tag means. I would have guessed that it implied joint stereo, but apparently not.

Again, my questions condensed:

1. The 3.95.1 version is not mentioned in the pinned post by JohnV - [a href="http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=28125]http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=28125[/url]
Question: What are the opinions on this version?

2. Question: What does nssafejoint mean? (In the above lame tag for example?)

Lame 3.95 -aps = stereo mode, not joint stereo?

Reply #10
Quote
1. Question: What are the opinions on this version?

2. Question: What does nssafejoint mean? (In the above lame tag for example?)
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=288047"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


1. 3.95 is buggy in some circumstances. That's why 3.95.1 exists.

2. I think it's a switch to make the joint stereo mode "safer" in the sense that it will never sound worse than "pure stereo". Only works with the nspsytune psychoacoustic model (not gpsycho). Has the effect that many more stereo frames are used, than if you just had used the -mj switch.

Lame 3.95 -aps = stereo mode, not joint stereo?

Reply #11
Don't feed the troll.

Regards,
Madrigal

Lame 3.95 -aps = stereo mode, not joint stereo?

Reply #12
Quote
Don't feed the troll.

Regards,
Madrigal
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=288055"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]



excuse me, what do you mean?

 

Lame 3.95 -aps = stereo mode, not joint stereo?

Reply #13
Quote
There's no reason to discuss his choice of ripper and encoder, he won't/can't change that. Period.

even if he wouldn't want to change anything, he should be informed that he's using a not recommended version of lame. One with several bugs.

Quote
After doing various encodings, I've discovered that using the preset standard setting is equivalent with using -V 2, q 0 and dual stereo. How strange is that? The commandline encoder with -aps shows usage of -V 2, q 3 and joint stereo as expected.

-q0 is broken in that version
-dual stereo is really dual mono

It seems like easy cdda extractor does make a faulty use of the lame library interface. It was several years ago that I've tried easy cdda, it had not convinced me.