What is the bitrate of your Opus files?

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What is the bitrate of your Opus files?

2018-01-24 16:45:53

What is the bitrate of your Opus files?

There is related topic Point of transparency of Opus

Re: What is the bitrate of your Opus files?

Reply #1 – 2018-01-24 18:06:20

Well, I have answered in terms of the bitrate I use in conversion from flac. This bitrate is not the same as my opinion of transparency, which is another topic

Re: What is the bitrate of your Opus files?

Reply #2 – 2018-01-24 19:05:33

Thanks to my ancient, dull Moto X phone not having a meagre SD card slot, ~85kpbs opus has consequently become the defacto choice for a more-than-conservative onus on my storage space for the dozen or so (mostly rock) albums I happen to listen to whilst on my (not-quite-daily) walks - with nothing to report home regarding my noticing any discernible artifact in the noisy, urban conditions I usually walk under - so much so that I didn't even bother carrying out any blind test.

Re: What is the bitrate of your Opus files?

Reply #3 – 2018-01-24 20:33:27

90% are 128 VBR. The other 10% are 160 VBR. I listen to heavy metal and black metal in particular tends to have artifacts at 128. The music is very fast in general, but for some reason artifacts more than other genres of metal so I bump it up to 160.

Re: What is the bitrate of your Opus files?

Reply #4 – 2018-01-25 01:12:07

96kbps is transparent to me. What I noticed is that up to 96kbps you get solid improvements for every 32kbps interval you give to the bitrate. After 96kbps, even if there is a difference for somebody, I bet the quality gain is less effective than the one given below 96kbps in 32kbps intervals. Not that there might be no quality gain, but most possibly not quite as big as the one you get for 32kbps intervals below 96kbps.

Re: What is the bitrate of your Opus files?

Reply #5 – 2018-01-25 07:35:00

I only have a small number of files in Opus, and I use 192 kbit/s, the old default for stereo sound. I see no attraction in seeking out the threshold of quality, and instead listen to the music without worry. The files are already quite tiny compared to flac and by any modern standards.

Re: What is the bitrate of your Opus files?

Reply #6 – 2018-01-25 09:07:18

I use 96kbps because it's the default setting, and because I haven't been able to pick out any artifacts when compared to the FLAC originals, even ABXing busy thrash metal with good headphones in a quiet room. So it is definitely going to be transparent on my car stereo with all the road noise and such.

adamOLC: How would you describe the artifacts you are hearing in black metal? I assume you're using at least Opus 1.2.

Re: What is the bitrate of your Opus files?

Reply #7 – 2018-01-25 09:22:06

Quote from: KozmoNaut on 2018-01-25 09:07:18

So it is definitely going to be transparent on my car stereo with all the road noise and such.

What have you been using for in-car listening? Bluetooth connnection?

Re: What is the bitrate of your Opus files?

Reply #8 – 2018-01-25 09:53:51

Quote from: includemeout on 2018-01-25 09:22:06

Quote from: KozmoNaut on 2018-01-25 09:07:18
So it is definitely going to be transparent on my car stereo with all the road noise and such.
What have you been using for in-car listening? Bluetooth connnection?

Line-in from my phone.

Re: What is the bitrate of your Opus files?

Reply #9 – 2018-01-25 12:54:31

Quote from: KozmoNaut on 2018-01-25 09:07:18

I use 96kbps because it's the default setting, and because I haven't been able to pick out any artifacts when compared to the FLAC originals, even ABXing busy thrash metal with good headphones in a quiet room. So it is definitely going to be transparent on my car stereo with all the road noise and such.

adamOLC: How would you describe the artifacts you are hearing in black metal? I assume you're using at least Opus 1.2.

What I hear (and this is the best way I can describe it) is distortion that is not present in the flac version. It occurs the most with symphonic black metal and in particular with the band Evilfeast. At first I did not notice it with IEMs, but heard it while in my car. Thrash, death, etc. has yet to give me any artifacts that I can hear, only this particular genre of black metal. I bumped these up to 160 bits and no longer hear the distortion. I'm not sure if it's the combination of the fast guitars and drums along with the synthesizer or what, but it was very noticeable in my car at higher volume versus my IEMs.

ETA: Yes, using Opus 1.2.

Re: What is the bitrate of your Opus files?

Reply #10 – 2018-01-25 14:15:42

Quote from: KozmoNaut on 2018-01-25 09:53:51

Quote from: includemeout on 2018-01-25 09:22:06
Quote from: KozmoNaut on 2018-01-25 09:07:18
So it is definitely going to be transparent on my car stereo with all the road noise and such.
What have you been using for in-car listening? Bluetooth connnection?

Line-in from my phone.

Oh. It's definitely more reliable than BT (connection-wise).

Re: What is the bitrate of your Opus files?

Reply #11 – 2018-01-25 15:15:33

Quote from: adamOLC on 2018-01-25 12:54:31

What I hear (and this is the best way I can describe it) is distortion that is not present in the flac version. It occurs the most with symphonic black metal and in particular with the band Evilfeast. At first I did not notice it with IEMs, but heard it while in my car. Thrash, death, etc. has yet to give me any artifacts that I can hear, only this particular genre of black metal. I bumped these up to 160 bits and no longer hear the distortion. I'm not sure if it's the combination of the fast guitars and drums along with the synthesizer or what, but it was very noticeable in my car at higher volume versus my IEMs.

ETA: Yes, using Opus 1.2.

That's really interesting that you seem to be able to hear it better in the car, was it because you played at a higher volume than with the IEMs?

I did go back and give it a couple of tries at a higher volume level, with Vektor's "Pillars of Sand", specifically the busy bit starting around 0:48s, with the crashy cymbals.

I was able to get 7/8 and 6/8 correct multiple times, but never 8/8. It's very hard to nail down the exact difference, but it's something like a very wide noise/distortion, like it's "outside the headphones", it's hard to describe. It is also VERY subtle, to the point that I'm not sure whether I'm imagining it or simply guessing it. I would never be able to pick it out while listening to the actual music, only when repeating the same <1sec segment over and over and over again.

I had the same experience with LAME MP3 at -V5 (or -V4? I can't remember). I could get most of the trials right, but it was super hard to pinpoint the specific difference, and I would never notice it outside of an ABX test.

I'll have to give my car stereo a go at a high volume.

Re: What is the bitrate of your Opus files?

Reply #12 – 2018-01-25 18:41:04

Well, I couldn't hear any difference in my car, so I tried with my headphones again, with some Anaal Nathrakh (to use some of the busiest/dirtiest/noisiest music I have).

I used the PPHS Ultra resampler before (to resample to 48kHz for equal footing in regards to the DAC), but I read up on it, and apparently the SSRC resampler is better? Either way, with the SSRC resampler I absolutely cannot ABX any difference at 96kbps vs lossless now, I completely bombed every test, completely random. Both on the Anaal Nathrakh tracks and the Vektor track.

If there is a difference, it's too slight for my ears. Opus at 96kbps is astoundingly good.

Re: What is the bitrate of your Opus files?

Reply #13 – 2018-01-25 18:43:35

Even though Opus is impressive I want to extra headroom and feel quite sure that I won't notice any artifact at all and therefore I have stopped at 128kbps using opus 1.2.1. I think the poll could have had two seperate questions; "what bitrate do you use for music" and "what bitrate do you use for voice recordings" since opus i so impressive for voice recordings.

Re: What is the bitrate of your Opus files?

Reply #14 – 2018-01-25 20:21:14

Quote from: KozmoNaut on 2018-01-25 15:15:33

Quote from: adamOLC on 2018-01-25 12:54:31
What I hear (and this is the best way I can describe it) is distortion that is not present in the flac version. It occurs the most with symphonic black metal and in particular with the band Evilfeast. At first I did not notice it with IEMs, but heard it while in my car. Thrash, death, etc. has yet to give me any artifacts that I can hear, only this particular genre of black metal. I bumped these up to 160 bits and no longer hear the distortion. I'm not sure if it's the combination of the fast guitars and drums along with the synthesizer or what, but it was very noticeable in my car at higher volume versus my IEMs.

ETA: Yes, using Opus 1.2.

That's really interesting that you seem to be able to hear it better in the car, was it because you played at a higher volume than with the IEMs?

I did go back and give it a couple of tries at a higher volume level, with Vektor's "Pillars of Sand", specifically the busy bit starting around 0:48s, with the crashy cymbals.

I was able to get 7/8 and 6/8 correct multiple times, but never 8/8. It's very hard to nail down the exact difference, but it's something like a very wide noise/distortion, like it's "outside the headphones", it's hard to describe. It is also VERY subtle, to the point that I'm not sure whether I'm imagining it or simply guessing it. I would never be able to pick it out while listening to the actual music, only when repeating the same <1sec segment over and over and over again.

I had the same experience with LAME MP3 at -V5 (or -V4? I can't remember). I could get most of the trials right, but it was super hard to pinpoint the specific difference, and I would never notice it outside of an ABX test.

I'll have to give my car stereo a go at a high volume.

I definitely listen louder in the car. I haven't gone back and abx it all. I should also add, this was over Bluetooth, yet it was all aptx so I don't think that was the cause of it. Evilfeast in particular has very bright sounding production. The synth is almost constant throughout, but the artifacts weren't present on every track. Once I bumped it up to 160, the artifacts went away. I've tried with other tracks (Vektor included) that are busy or even similar, but it doesn't occur with them. Eventually, I'll have some time to sit down and really test and listen, but the kiddos make it hard to get any quiet time...lol

Re: What is the bitrate of your Opus files?

Reply #15 – 2018-01-26 10:12:58

I use 48 kpbs opus for my sansa clipzip, just because I didn't want to buy a new microSD card. Is it transparent? no. But I find the artifacts "non-distracting". For portable use when moving, in a noisy environment, not paying too much attention to the music... quality is not a concern. When I have time for critical listening is when I'm at home, there I just play the lossless original files.

Re: What is the bitrate of your Opus files?

Reply #16 – 2018-01-26 10:53:36

I think it's interesting to encode some music at 6kbps -- the very lowest bitrate Opus supports -- just to truly hear the codec in action.

Yes, it will have artifacts and be rather noisy, with severely reduced frequency range. But it is absolutely amazing how much of the music still comes through. You can pick out bass lines and most of the melody, and the vocals are intelligible.

Re: What is the bitrate of your Opus files?

Reply #17 – 2018-01-26 19:28:29

64 kbps. I use a new build of Opus (new -tf build)..
I hope Opus 1.3 will really bring improvements to 24 - 48 kbps. For higher bitrates I haven't tested.

Re: What is the bitrate of your Opus files?

Reply #18 – 2018-01-27 13:43:58

fabiorug
As You're new here let me tell that using alpha versions of codec is a not precisely a good idea. You can try it (and you should in order to help to test it) but there might be a serious bugs.

Until moment there are no evidences that 1.3 (or new -tf ) is any better than 1.2.1

Re: What is the bitrate of your Opus files?

Reply #19 – 2018-01-27 15:50:44

I know there isn't evidence about improvements at 64 kbps. I tezted only with a sample ( I know it isn't good)..

Re: What is the bitrate of your Opus files?

Reply #20 – 2018-01-27 17:23:14

No ABX made, I feel 96kbps good enough for mobile... I listen to my music without evident artifacts.
little to little I'm cancelling all Big mp3 from my phone's SD, replacing them with OPUS.... only when I have lossless for conversion.

Re: What is the bitrate of your Opus files?

Reply #21 – 2018-01-27 19:22:38

I play it safe at 160.
My phone has 256GB card so space isn't problem.

Re: What is the bitrate of your Opus files?

Reply #22 – 2018-01-28 01:28:54

I transcode the audio of DVR recordings from surround AC-3 to stereo 64kbps Opus.

Re: What is the bitrate of your Opus files?

Reply #23 – 2018-01-30 12:45:02

16kbps.

I'm using Opus for speech recording only. For that, this bit rate is enough. I don't need it for music or movies.

My CD collection is stored in FLAC

. I re-ripped my 1000 CD's to FLAC last year to get rid of MP3 at all. For mobile, I convert from the FLAC archive down to Vorbis.

Re: What is the bitrate of your Opus files?

Reply #24 – 2018-05-08 08:40:28

Looking through the comments in here etc etc, it seems the following four choices are best, especially if one has some concern for efficiency...

-48kbps = Usable, especially if storage space is of higher concern and you don't mind sacrificing some sound quality. hell, even 32kbps is respectable in the overall quality of the sound for such a low bit rate but I can't imagine most people going under 48kbps unless they heavily favor storage space over sound quality.

-64kbps = This is what I would suggest as a minimum for music in general as overall sound quality is 'good enough' and file size is minimal. I suspect this would be 'good enough' for many people.

-80kbps = This is probably a good choice for those who don't mind the 64kbps setting but want to play it a bit safer in sound quality and are still looking for solid efficiency.

-96kbps = It seems many agree this setting is quite good in sound quality and is still efficient. any higher and Opus starts to lose it's appeal as I figure 128kbps would be the limit I would consider for Opus since beyond that seems overkill and efficiency would be mostly shot beyond 128kbps.

all-in-all... I voted for the 64kbps setting for now since I tend to view Opus as trying to get maximum efficiency without sound quality taking any obvious drop offs on a typical song when just listening to your music and enjoying it without having to focus too much to spot artifacts. I suspect 64kbps would please many people. also, I basically see Opus as a slightly more efficient version of AAC and to get those benefits it seem to be 96kbps-ish and lower as once you get into the 128kbps+ ranges your probably better off using Apple AAC for compatibility sake.

NOTE: I don't really use Opus much, but when I do, it pretty much boils down to the above comments. if Opus was more standardized, and especially if my old Sandisk Sansa e250 v1 player (2GB internal memory, with a 16GB MicroSD card = 18GB total storage space) worked well with it(it seems it's a bit too CPU intensive on Rockbox), there is a pretty good chance I would be using it over Apple AAC @ 128kbps (lowest I would use on Apple AAC would be 96kbps).

p.s. I use Opus for speech @ 14-16kbps as I feel the 14kbps setting is about the lowest I would suggest before the quality starts to take a decent hit.

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Poll

What is the bitrate of your Opus files?