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Topic: Help with switching from Windows Media Player to fb2k (Read 4423 times) previous topic - next topic
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Help with switching from Windows Media Player to fb2k

Hello

Up till now I have been using Windows Media Player to sort and play my music.  My collection is mostly classical so I like to sort by composer.  I have thousands of tracks and it took me several days to get all the composer tags correctly set up in Windows Media Player.  I am currently using version 12 running on Windows 7 Home edition.

I have started to download more flac files.  With the right add on WMP can play these OK but the library features in WMP don't seem to work well with flac files.

I conducted some on-line research and fb2k seemed to be a good choice of player for its multi format library and playback capabilities.  I downloaded and installed it really easily.  But these are now my problems:

The composer tags that I carefully set up in WMP do not appear when I list my files in fb2k.  When I right click on the file in fb2k and select properties, the composer field is blank.  Also in the bottom left of the default fb2k listing screen there is a "view" selection with a drop down list giving the options of
- by album
- by artist
- by genre
- by year
- by artist/album

There is no option for "by composer".

I would like to sort my files in this nested hierarchy:  by composer, within composer by album, within album by track number.

Can anyone help me with these questions:
1. How do I import the composer settings as well as other tags that I set up in Windows Media Player?
2. Once imported, how do I sort by composer, by album, by track number in fb2k?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Chris.

Help with switching from Windows Media Player to fb2k

Reply #1
Unfortunately, there is not a music player out there that makes cataloging classical music easy. If you want real frustration, try doing it in iTunes. All music players are built around the artist>song paradigm. You need to force composer>work>movement on fb2K.

It is easier to to what you want in ColumnsUI than the default UI, but resist the temptation. CUI has been abandoned by the author and could go away any moment with an update to fb2k.

Now to your question. the composer tag works fine in fb2k. I have no idea why they are blank in your library other than you may not have used the official composer tag. Did you use a custom tag for composer? You will also have to set up other tags to make things work. I use the <artist> tag only when there is a soloist. If not I force a space into this tag. Force a space into the <album artist> tag also. Put the orchestra in the <band> tag. (When I first set up my library, I did not realize that there was a <band> tag, so i created a custom <orchestra> tag.) You will need to create a <conductor> tag and <work> tag, or else redefine some other tag you won't be using. Put the movement tempo indicator or name in the <title> tag. Note that it generally take me 10-15 minutes to get the tags right on a new rip or download depending on the number of works/movements on a recording.

Title formatting is your friend. you will have to become familiar with it. The piping symbol (|) and the square brackets ([]) are not exactly intuitive but are essential. You will have to create new sort/display parameters for the album list. I did two -- one sorted on composer>work and the other on composer>album (I always attach the composer name to the album name).

Code: [Select]
%<genre>%|[%composer%]|%work%||%conductor% -- %orchestra%|%tracknumber% -- %title%
%<genre>%|[%album%]|%work%|%tracknumber% -- %title%|


You will also need to add a grouping to playlists. This one will work for both classical and pop:

Code: [Select]
$if(%work%,%Composer%/%Work%,%Artist%/%Album%)


This is the short course. fb2k has a steep learning curve, but once you get there, it does a lot of things right.

Bob

Help with switching from Windows Media Player to fb2k

Reply #2
If using Default UI (DUI), you may also want to look into an alternative playlist viewer for foobar2000 named foo_simplaylist.
Have a look at this screenshot of a user using foo_playlist to display his classical collection.

I use Columns UI (CUI), and I have found a way to hack the view to display any style or genre of music any way I like ...classical is no problem.
Take a look at this screenshot of my player (slightly old, been changed since then, but you should get the idea).

Help with switching from Windows Media Player to fb2k

Reply #3
1. How do I import the composer settings as well as other tags that I set up in Windows Media Player?


In regards to your composer tags you added with WMP... (this can be applied to other "missing" tags as well)

1. Open foobar
2. Select a file to which you know you added a composer tag and open Properties (Alt+Enter)
3. Scroll down in Properties in the Metadata tab
4. Do you see any tags in the Name column bookended with angle brackets <>? And does one of them show the composer in the Value column?
5. If yes, proceed to the next step. If no, close foobar and see below.
6. Write down the bracketed tag name exactly as shown because you'll need it later, and exit Properties.
7. Now, make sure all files are shown in the playlist viewer and select them all (Ctrl+A) and open Properties again (Alt+Enter).
8. Right-click on Composer in the Name column, and in the context menu that opens, select "Format from other fields..."
9. In the dialog that opens, you'll see a box under Pattern. In that box, you'll need to enter the tag name you wrote down in step 6. IMPORTANT!: Replace the angle brackets with percentage characters % (i.e. <TAG_NAME> becomes %TAG_NAME%, <TAGNAME> becomes %TAGNAME%, etc.)
10. Now, click OK. foobar will now copy the composer values to the composer tag.

Follow these steps if the answer was "no" in step 5. There are two different possibilities why foobar doesn't see your composer tags: 1) the composer values you added in WMP haven't been written to the files yet, or 2) WMP wrote them to a frame foobar doesn't support. This steps outlined below work off of the first possibility.

1. Open WMP
2. Make sure all files are visible in WMP and select all of them (Ctrl+A)
3. If using WMP12, click on Organize and then click on "Apply media information changes" (this tells WMP to write any tags to your files which haven't been written/updated yet). In other versions of WMP, I believe the "Apply media information changes" option is located under Tools in Menu.
4. Now, you can go eat an apple, take a nap or run a marathon (depending upon the size of your library) while WMP checks for and writes any tags that need to be written/updated.
5. Once WMP completes, close WMP and open Foobar.
6. Give foobar a chance to update tags after opening it (the amount of time will vary)
7. Open Properties and check to see if Composer is now populated with your values. If yes, great! If no, but you do see them bracketed lower down in Properties, then follow steps 6-10 that I outlined at the top of this post. If no, you still can't see them in foobar whatsoever, let me know and we'll try something else.

Help with switching from Windows Media Player to fb2k

Reply #4
I was having a bit of a problem with my ftp service -- solved.

Here  are pictures of my skin. Very simple with no frills.

Album list sorted by composer>work:



And by composer>album


Help with switching from Windows Media Player to fb2k

Reply #5
Consider starting over with foobar2000 and the facets component.

Help with switching from Windows Media Player to fb2k

Reply #6
Consider starting over with foobar2000 and the facets component.


Will that be easier than following the advice above for importing the tags that I set up in WMP?

Help with switching from Windows Media Player to fb2k

Reply #7
Unfortunately, there is not a music player out there that makes cataloging classical music easy. If you want real frustration, try doing it in iTunes. All music players are built around the artist>song paradigm. You need to force composer>work>movement on fb2K.

It is easier to to what you want in ColumnsUI than the default UI, but resist the temptation. CUI has been abandoned by the author and could go away any moment with an update to fb2k.

Now to your question. the composer tag works fine in fb2k. I have no idea why they are blank in your library other than you may not have used the official composer tag. Did you use a custom tag for composer? You will also have to set up other tags to make things work. I use the <artist> tag only when there is a soloist. If not I force a space into this tag. Force a space into the <album artist> tag also. Put the orchestra in the <band> tag. (When I first set up my library, I did not realize that there was a <band> tag, so i created a custom <orchestra> tag.) You will need to create a <conductor> tag and <work> tag, or else redefine some other tag you won't be using. Put the movement tempo indicator or name in the <title> tag. Note that it generally take me 10-15 minutes to get the tags right on a new rip or download depending on the number of works/movements on a recording.

Title formatting is your friend. you will have to become familiar with it. The piping symbol (|) and the square brackets ([]) are not exactly intuitive but are essential. You will have to create new sort/display parameters for the album list. I did two -- one sorted on composer>work and the other on composer>album (I always attach the composer name to the album name).

Code: [Select]
%<genre>%|[%composer%]|%work%||%conductor% -- %orchestra%|%tracknumber% -- %title%
%<genre>%|[%album%]|%work%|%tracknumber% -- %title%|


You will also need to add a grouping to playlists. This one will work for both classical and pop:

Code: [Select]
$if(%work%,%Composer%/%Work%,%Artist%/%Album%)


This is the short course. fb2k has a steep learning curve, but once you get there, it does a lot of things right.

Bob


This is very helpful advice.  Thank you so much.  I will lhave to find enough spare time to try it out.  Maybe next week end.  Just to reply to your point about the official composer tag.  I used the "Composer" tag that exists in Windows Media Player. I don't know how official that is, but you would think it would be. That allows you to enter the name of the composer for each track and later allows you to sort by composer.  Tracks by each composer are then further sorted by album.  I like your idea of sorting by Composer>Work>Movement and will definitely do that where appropriate.  Of course some classical albums are by artists who play a selection of pieces from various composers, then the pop music Artist>Album>Track would be more appropriate.  I am assuming that you can set up alternative hierarchies depending on which type of music you are searching for.  It does sound complicated but judging from your response it can be done and is worth the effort.

Help with switching from Windows Media Player to fb2k

Reply #8
Consider starting over with foobar2000 and the facets component.


Will that be easier than following the advice above for importing the tags that I set up in WMP?


You'll still need to deal with the tag issue no matter what. But with facets you can easily set up the user interface to be exactly what you want.

Help with switching from Windows Media Player to fb2k

Reply #9
Consider starting over with foobar2000 and the facets component.


Will that be easier than following the advice above for importing the tags that I set up in WMP?


Well no, it's not going to import the tags for you.

Facets is a column-based selector, rather than a tree-based selector like Album List. You select an item in one facet, and the next facet is filtered by that item. You can set up any number of columns ('facets') with any number of subcolumns with any sorting you like. It is rather iTunes- or Winamp-like with their Artist|Album|Song columns, but it offers far greater customization.

Help with switching from Windows Media Player to fb2k

Reply #10
Bob Brines stated this before: "Unfortunately, there is not a music player out there that makes cataloging classical music easy..."

I do not blame software for that situation; I blame the people involved in the production and marketing of classical music for this mess.
I have a keen interest in the taxonomy of things; I have spent many hours in shops looking at masses of vinyl LP's and CD's stacked vertically with their spines facing me.
I have tried to find a logical structure to the spine text and album naming conventions...
FORGET ABOUT IT! ...sometimes it's "composer/work", sometimes it's "soloist/work", sometimes it's "conductor/orchestra/composer name", sometimes it's completely vague!

Software is not to blame; the classical music world does not have product naming standards so it only has itself to blame.

Having said that, the only advice I can offer anybody trying to compile a classical media library is to create your own "standard"
...and you can thank God that there exists at least one music player which gives you enough flexibility to do this ---> foobar2000

Help with switching from Windows Media Player to fb2k

Reply #11
I do it this way: Classical Style Guide - MusicBrainz
"The Artist should contain just the composer not the performer...  Do not use the performer as the artist."

Changing the tagging of classical music is allways a lot of work. 

Help with switching from Windows Media Player to fb2k

Reply #12
Will that be easier than following the advice above for importing the tags that I set up in WMP?


I just tested Composer tags written by WMP and it confirmed what I suspected: your Composer tags (and probably other tags added/changed) most likely have not been written to your files' tags yet. Foobar will see and use Composer tags written by WMP. Since yours aren't visible in foobar, you only need to follow the second part of my previous post and "Apply media information changes" in WMP.

 

Help with switching from Windows Media Player to fb2k

Reply #13
I've never been able to religiously accept the "MusicBrainz Classical Style Guidlines".
I give them credit for attempting some logical study into the matter, but my eclecticism refuses to accept it;
however what I did gain from reading it was an appreciation for creating my own standard...

I DO NOT use any other tags except these ones:
ARTIST  |  TITLE  |  ALBUM  |  DATE  |  GENRE  |  ALBUM ARTIST  |  TRACKNUMBER  |  COMMENT

These tags are gold standard in ANY software music player and I never have problems with what the OP is dealing with.

In my playlist view, I like to group classical stuff alphabetically by "list of performing artists separated by slash character",
Thus I construct my grouping line from the left using the ALBUM ARTIST tag which contains the above quoted string.
and I continue the string right by using the ALBUM tag for "composer name: work name",

I use the ARTIST tag in a special way; as a multiple value field which contains a list of EVERYBODY involved in the work.
I try to add as many names and name variations as I can !!!!
The point of this is to see a (huge) flat list/index of names and name variations in my Media Library "Artist" Filter (library viewing panel).

AN EXAMPLE:

Screenshot of an Audio-CD I have in my foobar2000 media library (front cover/back cover):


Therefore Tag contents relevant to this discussion look like this:

ARTIST (this tag is split to multiple values using semicolon, and the first value is used for sorting in lists):
Quote
Argerich, Martha; Martha Argerich; Performer — Martha Argerich (piano); Chailly, Ricardo; Ricardo Chailly; Conductor — Ricardo Chailly; Kondrashin, Kirill; Kirill Kondrashin; Conductor — Kirill Kondrashin; Berlin Radio Symphony Orchestra; Ensemble — Berlin Radio Symphony Orchestra; Bayerischen Rundfunks Symphony Orchestra; Ensemble — Bayerischen Rundfunks Symphony Orchestra; Rachmaninoff, Serge; Serge Rachmaninoff; Composer — Serge Rachmaninoff (1873-1943); Tchaikovsky, Peter Ilyich; Peter Ilyich Tchaikovsky; Composer — Peter Ilyich Tchaikovsky (1840-1893)
 
ALBUM:
Quote
LIVE > RACHMANINOFF: Piano Conc 3, Op.30 + TCHAIKOVSKY: Piano Conc 1, Op.23

ALBUM ARTIST:
Quote
Martha Argerich (piano)/Chailly, Berlin RSO/Kondrashin, Bayerischen R'funks SO

DATE (this tag is split to multiple values using semicolon, and only the first value is displayed in the grouping line):
Quote
1980+1982;1980;1982

COMMENT:
Quote
CD > Philips #465 732-2, Germany, Remaster ©1995


Therefore my Playlist Viewer grouping line for this album looks something like this (I actually use a tall compact font named ITC Franklin Gothic Std Blk Cp 14pt):

Martha Argerich (piano)/Chailly, Berlin RSO/Kondrashin, Bayerischen R'funks SO    ●    LIVE > RACHMANINOFF: Piano Conc 3, Op.30 + TCHAIKOVSKY: Piano Conc 1, Op.23     (1980+1982)    ●    CD > Philips #465 732-2, Germany, Remaster ©1995