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Topic: Pioneer u-05 DSD issue (Read 3536 times) previous topic - next topic
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Pioneer u-05 DSD issue

Hi,
does anyone with the u-05 managed to play DSD from foobar??
I tried every possible combination but no success.
I have the latest foobar and also the updated asio and sacd plugins.
Thanks!

Re: Pioneer u-05 DSD issue

Reply #1 –
Hello again,

After many attempts, I figured that with the foo_input_sacd0.9.3 the u-05 managed to play DSD.
BUT, if I try to play a PCM, nothing. If I play the PCM after a DSD file, plays normally.

Do you have any idea why that's happening??

Thanks!!

Re: Pioneer u-05 DSD issue

Reply #4 –
I have Pioneer U-05 too.
Try foo_input_sacd-0.8.4 + ASIOProxyInstall-0.8.3

Output > ASIO > foo_dsd_asio > Double click > Setting > Pioneer ASIO Driver, ASIO Native, None, TypeB, DSD128
Output mode: ASIO :foo_dsd_asio
Preferences >Tools > SACD > DSD
No DSP Components.

Please read the readme.txt.

Reference
SHURE SRH1840, SENNHEISER HD660S2, SENNHEISER HD 490 PRO, DT 1990 PRO, HiFiMAN Edition XS, Bowers & Wilkins P7, FiiO FT5, 水月雨 (MOONDROP) 空鳴 - VOID, Nakamichi Elite FIVE ANC, Bose QuietComfort 45 (made a Upgrade/Balanced Cable by myself)

Re: Pioneer u-05 DSD issue

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Air KEN on
I have Pioneer U-05 too.
Try foo_input_sacd-0.8.4 + ASIOProxyInstall-0.8.3

Output > ASIO > foo_dsd_asio > Double click > Setting > Pioneer ASIO Driver, ASIO Native, None, TypeB, DSD128
Output mode: ASIO :foo_dsd_asio
Preferences >Tools > SACD > DSD
No DSP Components.

Please read the readme.txt.

Reference

Hi, I use your instructions to play dsd files with my Pioneer U-05.
Fantastic!
Thank you

Now I have a problem with the flac files 192/24. now foobar trys to play flac files in dsd 5.6mhz with very bad results. Have you got idea to fix thi issue?
Please
thank you
Tony
 

Re: Pioneer u-05 DSD issue

Reply #7 –
I have also an issue with Pioneer U-05 and Foobar trying to play DSD - it simply does not play DSD.

First some data: Foobar is the latest version 3.17, running on latest update of Windows 10. I installed Pioneer driver V 1.03 for Windows. Then I installed:

- foo_input_sacd -> version 1.0.11
- foo_out_asio -> version 2.1.2
- Asio Proxy -> version 0.94
- DSD Transcoder -> vesrion 1.0.10

I have the possibility to select as Output: DSD:ASIO: foo_dsd_asio. But where I can make allignment between Proxy and the real Pioneer driver ?

In older versions of F2K it was possible to do it but now there are no options for that. I have Transcoder but it does not also have any option for alignment.

Until now I used Shiit Loki DSD DAC and it worked very well with Wasapi driver, directly without any ASIO support. Pioneer refuses this direct communication for DSD (PCM works just fine with Wasapi).

Re: Pioneer u-05 DSD issue

Reply #8 –
It seems that Pioneer U-05 driver requires older F2K plug-ins, where the definition of ASIO support could be explicitely established. With the new versions of F2K that is not possible any more and the whole architecture seems to be different now.

Is it possible that the new version of F2K implements better support for DSD reproduction ?

Re: Pioneer u-05 DSD issue

Reply #9 –
Architecture in foobar2000 hasn't changed. DSD is a hack and all attempts to play it in foobar2000 other than converting it to sane PCM are hacks. Everything in foobar2000 only deals with PCM samples and trying to pass DSD through the pipeline requires bypassing the player entirely. Custom input, bypassing DSPs, custom output. That's not what foobar2000 is about.

Re: Pioneer u-05 DSD issue

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Case on
Architecture in foobar2000 hasn't changed. DSD is a hack and all attempts to play it in foobar2000 other than converting it to sane PCM are hacks. Everything in foobar2000 only deals with PCM samples and trying to pass DSD through the pipeline requires bypassing the player entirely. Custom input, bypassing DSPs, custom output. That's not what foobar2000 is about.
Quote from: Case on
Architecture in foobar2000 hasn't changed. DSD is a hack and all attempts to play it in foobar2000 other than converting it to sane PCM are hacks. Everything in foobar2000 only deals with PCM samples and trying to pass DSD through the pipeline requires bypassing the player entirely. Custom input, bypassing DSPs, custom output. That's not what foobar2000 is about.

But the time has come to move on and build a proper support for DSD, too. Just like it has been done in JRiver.

Re: Pioneer u-05 DSD issue

Reply #11 –
You do understand that DSD is inferior to PCM in every way? You don't even have gapless playback with the format using separate files. Even JRiver recommends converting it to PCM for playback, but since they are a commercial company they want to please even audiophiles and offer inferior pass-through options.

foobar2000 wants to offer superior experience regardless of format. Fast seeking, gapless playback, working volume control, ReplayGain and all other DSPs work with everything. Peter has been adamant about this part and I don't expect it to change.

Do yourself a favor and try foo_input_sacd with the default PCM conversion mode and see how much better the usability is. Also you'll notice that the audio quality is 100% identical.

Re: Pioneer u-05 DSD issue

Reply #12 –
I do not want to start religious discussions DSD vs PCM. That is also not the point when you build a product like Foobar.

Earlier versions of F2K had the possibility to open two control panels: one of driver itself (in this case that would be Pioneer driver) and ASIO Proxy. Now there is no such possibility. Therefore, I cannot assign Pioneer driver to the ASIO Proxy (what I did - I install the trial of JRiver and there did this association, and then it works also in F2K - but that is not how it should be). Why it would be difficult to integrate in F2K, just like it has been done in JRiver, SACD plug-in, Asio support and Asio Proxy, provide couple of panels where it can be simply selected the output driver and in that way make DSD support available and easy to use.

I am using foo_input_sacd having in that way the capability to convert DSD into PCM. That part is working just fine. But the users want to have the flexibility to use different formats. You know how we are ...  :D

Re: Pioneer u-05 DSD issue

Reply #13 –
You may already know this but FWIW:

What you are experiencing isn't directly related to the new foobar2000 releases.

With the 1.xx releases of foo_input_sacd you don't need the ASIO proxy, you just use the device's ASIO (or it's WASAPI, …) driver directly.  

Earlier foo_input_sacd's (before foo_input_sacd 1.1.0 I think) don't work with the beta foobar2000's but that is a problem with foo_input_sacd, not with foobar2000 and foo_input_sacd 1.1.0 works with the foobar2000 betas.

With older foo_input_sacd's you would also run, say, ASIOProxyInstall-0.8.3.exe to get foo_dsd_asio, an ASIO proxy that could translate native DSD to, say, DoP.  That translation directly in the newer releases of foo_input_sacd.

AFAIK you can't use the newer foo_input_sacd's to send native DSD.  There were some releases about 1.0.0 to 1.0.3 of foo_input_sacd that tried to do native DSD, but there were bugs.

foobar2000 betas (and previous releases) and foo_input_sacd_1.1.0 work fine here to play DSD (via DoP).

Tho I haven't tried it recently the later releases of foo_input_sacd_1.xx provide a "DSD Processor" which does DSD -> DSD and PCM -> DSD conversions.

Re: Pioneer u-05 DSD issue

Reply #14 –
That is actually the problem. DSDTranscoder + Wasapi works fine with Shiit Loki (pure DSD DAC) without Shiit driver. But it does not work at all with Pioneer U-05. For some reason ... Therefore I went the ASIO path, but with the latest versions it does not work as well (unless you use this trick with JRver). Obviously I should install the older versions of ASIO Proxy ... but somehow I did not want to go back in the past (maybe I should). All this is rather messy affair and I still believe that it should be simplified and resolved within Foobar.