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CD-R and Audio Hardware => Audio Hardware => Topic started by: The_Egg on 04 August, 2012, 10:22:25 PM

Title: Replacement LARGER Hard Drive Models For Ipod Classic?
Post by: The_Egg on 04 August, 2012, 10:22:25 PM
Hey guys.  I have a 160GB Ipod Classic Model A1238 (late 2009 "thin" version).  My music collection has recently ballooned to just over 200GB, so I'm now tasked with the chore of finding over 40GB of music to NOT include when I update the Ipod.  This is really unfortunate, since I use it almost exclusively for playback in the car, where I would like to have the entire collection.

Most car stereos (including mine) have a 10,000 file limit for standalone external hard drives, so that's not an option.  Apple also doesn't appear to have any plans for releasing a larger Ipod Classic.  This means my only option (other than just dealing with it) would be to custom-install a larger hard drive myself.

I've tried searching the web for current 1.8" hard drives compatible with my model, but I'm really not having any luck.  Has anyone performed this procedure, or can you point me somewhere I can find the information on compatible hard drives and such??

Ipod Classic Model A1238
160GB Late 2009 "thin" version
Title: Replacement LARGER Hard Drive Models For Ipod Classic?
Post by: A_Man_Eating_Duck on 04 August, 2012, 11:11:43 PM
maybe something like this would do for you?

http://www.head-fi.org/t/604266/review-mod...b-hdd-from-ebay (http://www.head-fi.org/t/604266/review-modded-ipod-classic-7g-with-240gb-hdd-from-ebay)
Title: Replacement LARGER Hard Drive Models For Ipod Classic?
Post by: JJZolx on 05 August, 2012, 12:34:42 AM
This means my only option (other than just dealing with it) would be to custom-install a larger hard drive myself.


Another option is to install a car PC, but I'm guessing you're probably not interested in either the trouble or the expense. Some people are also using tablets with USB drives in their cars, which is a bit easier and cheaper, although maybe not as neatly integrated.

If you manage to install a 240GB drive in your iPod, what do you do when your collection grows to over 240GB?
Title: Replacement LARGER Hard Drive Models For Ipod Classic?
Post by: The_Egg on 05 August, 2012, 04:22:56 AM
I seriously looked into a car pc a handful of years ago, but you're correct that I'm not interested in the hassle or the expense.  I'm only interested in music and nothing else.  I don't see my collection hitting over 240gb anytime soon, but even so, it's alot easier to cut down from 251GB to 240gb than to 160GB.

It seems discussion on this procedure has dropped off quite a bit the past couple years.  Do others not have large music collections??  Anyhow, it appears the Toshiba MK2431GAH 240 GB is the drive most commonly mentioned, and all over Ebay.  From what I can gather (I could be wrong), this drive is 8mm thick and will not fit in my newer "thin" version Ipod.

One would think that several newer 1.8" hard drive models have come out in the past few years, but I'm having a very hard time finding any info.
Title: Replacement LARGER Hard Drive Models For Ipod Classic?
Post by: EagleScout1998 on 05 August, 2012, 05:40:22 AM
I wonder if anyone has tried modifying an iPod Classic for use with an SSD.
Title: Replacement LARGER Hard Drive Models For Ipod Classic?
Post by: db579 on 05 August, 2012, 10:17:54 AM
My collection has also outgrown portable media players so I would be curious if there are any (slightly larger) ones that it's possible to easily fit any laptop hard drive into.

In the mean time have you considered cloud storage? Google music let's you upload and play back 20,000 songs for free assuming you have an internet connection and (on android devices at least) can predownload a certain amount
Title: Replacement LARGER Hard Drive Models For Ipod Classic?
Post by: Soap on 05 August, 2012, 11:14:02 AM
I think the fact that a google search for CE-ATA 1.8" brings up nothing larger than 160GB makes this a closed case.
Title: Replacement LARGER Hard Drive Models For Ipod Classic?
Post by: The_Egg on 06 August, 2012, 01:14:21 AM
Alright.....I've done a bit of research, and I've also received an additional Ipod as a gift from a friend.  The details of my Ipods are currently:

#1
Ipod "Video" 5th Generation
A1136 (EMC 2065)
60GB "thick"

#2
Ipod Classic 7th Generation (Late 2009)
A1238 (EMC 2173)
160GB "thin"

As I mentioned above, the only hard drive I see being verified to work is the Toshiba MK2431GAH 240GB.  While I wouldn't mind even more space, this is at least a 50% improvement in capacity, so it would be worthwhile in either circumstance. 

Question #1: If I install this hard drive into the older Ipod #1, is it going to need a custom firmware to be able to see the full 240GB?

Question #2: From what I've gathered, this new hard drive will not physically fit into Ipod #2 because it is a "thin" model.  However, I found refurbished thick rear panels for sale.  Will one of these thick rear panels physically connect to my newer 7th Gen Ipod #2?

Question #3: Will the new hard drive need any sort of special formatting before being installed?

Question #4: Other than Ebay, do any reputable dealers sell this drive?
Title: Replacement LARGER Hard Drive Models For Ipod Classic?
Post by: JJZolx on 06 August, 2012, 01:32:56 AM
http://www.rapidrepair.com/shop/ipod-video-hard-drives.html (http://www.rapidrepair.com/shop/ipod-video-hard-drives.html)

Maybe the best reason to go with the 5th gen is that you can run Rockbox on it.
Title: Replacement LARGER Hard Drive Models For Ipod Classic?
Post by: skamp on 06 August, 2012, 03:38:54 AM
I installed Rockbox on my last gen Classic. A bit buggy but it works.
Title: Replacement LARGER Hard Drive Models For Ipod Classic?
Post by: Soap on 06 August, 2012, 06:51:54 AM
Question #2: From what I've gathered, this new hard drive will not physically fit into Ipod #2 because it is a "thin" model.  However, I found refurbished thick rear panels for sale.  Will one of these thick rear panels physically connect to my newer 7th Gen Ipod #2?


The 5th generation and 7th generation iPods do not have the same physical interface.  A drive which plugs into one will not plug into the other.

Title: Replacement LARGER Hard Drive Models For Ipod Classic?
Post by: Arnold B. Krueger on 06 August, 2012, 07:47:58 AM
I wonder if anyone has tried modifying an iPod Classic for use with an SSD.



Generally SSD upgrades to laptops are plug-and-play from a hardware standpoint. Been there, done that several times, with stunning results. 

I imagine that with a closed system like an iPod you might have to be little more careful when it comes to duplicating the file system, etc. Its probable that some existing possibly even freeware disc volume copying tools would do the job.

However base on other posts, this particular iPod has an PATA interface, while to the best of my knowledge most SSDs are SATA.  One would have to be careful about this.

There are SATA<-> PATA converters but packaging them into the tight space available might be mission impossible.
Title: Replacement LARGER Hard Drive Models For Ipod Classic?
Post by: DonP on 06 August, 2012, 08:33:28 AM
It seems discussion on this procedure has dropped off quite a bit the past couple years.  Do others not have large music collections??


Many in that situation either settle on not having the whole collection on a portable, or rethink what bitrate is sufficient for a car system.

Title: Replacement LARGER Hard Drive Models For Ipod Classic?
Post by: DonP on 06 August, 2012, 08:50:00 AM
My collection has also outgrown portable media players so I would be curious if there are any (slightly larger) ones that it's possible to easily fit any laptop hard drive into.


There have been a number of them, Archos and Neuros for examples.  AFAIK all of them would be PATA interface so selection of high capacity drives would be sketchy, but better than you could do with 1.8 inch.

Quote
In the mean time have you considered cloud storage? Google music let's you upload and play back 20,000 songs for free assuming you have an internet connection and (on android devices at least) can predownload a certain amount


Another advantage for driving with newer androids is you can select music on voice command.  It's not 100% accurate as the voice-to-text tries to gravitate to what it thinks you're trying to say and some song/album titles are take-offs on common phrases.
Title: Replacement LARGER Hard Drive Models For Ipod Classic?
Post by: The_Egg on 06 August, 2012, 09:32:29 AM
The 5th generation and 7th generation iPods do not have the same physical interface.  A drive which plugs into one will not plug into the other.

Actually, one of the few things I'm fairly certain of is that they have the same Parallel ATA ZIF-cable interface. 

I wonder if anyone has tried modifying an iPod Classic for use with an SSD.

Most 1.8" SSDs over 160GB cost north of $500 with no real added benefit.


As for Cloud storage, I won't own a smartphone until WP8 is released, and the chances of it working with my existing car stereo are basically zero.
Title: Replacement LARGER Hard Drive Models For Ipod Classic?
Post by: Soap on 06 August, 2012, 01:57:33 PM
The 5th generation and 7th generation iPods do not have the same physical interface.  A drive which plugs into one will not plug into the other.

Actually, one of the few things I'm fairly certain of is that they have the same Parallel ATA ZIF-cable interface. 

The 6th generation "Classic" shipped with a CE-ATA interface, so unless they switched it back to the PATA-ZIF of the 5th gen that is incorrect.

This shit really isn't hard to verify.



Title: Replacement LARGER Hard Drive Models For Ipod Classic?
Post by: The_Egg on 06 August, 2012, 04:49:48 PM
Actually, information on these sorts of details is pretty spotty online, so I can't really prove or disprove what you're saying until I crack the cases open.  All I can say is that in my reading and discussion so far (here, and a few other forums), you are the first to mention possible issues about the interface.

It might be worth mentioning that there was briefly an older 2-platter 160GB model in 2007 that only lasted a handful of months before being discontinued.  I searched for "CE-ATA Ipod", and could only find the drive for that older 160GB model.  The current 7th-Gen 160GB model is a single-platter "slim" version released in 09/2009.  This is what I have.
Title: Replacement LARGER Hard Drive Models For Ipod Classic?
Post by: kornchild2002 on 06 August, 2012, 06:22:09 PM
The 2 platter 160GB iPod classic released in 2007 actually went on for a full year until Apple released a single platter 120GB iPod classic in 2008.  So it went on for a longer period of time than a "handful" of months (unless 12 is your idea of a handful).  In 2007, Apple introduced an 80GB ($249) and 160GB ($349) version of the iPod classic.  The 80GB edition was single-platter and the 160GB version was dual-platter.  They were both replaced in 2008 with the introduction of a single-platter 120GB iPod classic for $249.  It had a couple new features and a slightly newer firmware.  Apple then released a single-platter 160GB iPod classic replacing the older 120GB model.  It too had a few new features (Genius playlist compatibility being one of them) but that was also added to the previous 120GB model.

The current iPod classic line is maxed out at 160GB and it is my understanding that higher capacity drives, with that form factor and connector, were not manufactured.  However, the 5G/5.5G iPod (the OP has a 5G iPod) can be upgraded to 240GB.  The drive is expensive ($200) but it can be done.  Whether or not the high $200 price tag is worth it is up to the OP.  Personally, I don't think that spending $200 is worth getting that type of upgrade when the money would be better spent towards a different solution.  I know the song limitation of the Pioneer deck in my Civic, which was about $500, is more than 10,000 songs as I have about 12,000 on it now (a couple hundred over 12k) and every song is identified along with every playlist.  The hard drive hooks up through a standard USB 2.0 connection.  The Kenwood deck in my old Escort had a 10,000 song limit but I believe things have changed since then (2007).  Instead, you would be better off finding a car deck that can handle more than 10,000 songs instead of spending $200 to upgrade an iPod that is worth about $50 only to face the same issue a few years down the line.

Either that or invest in an 8GB iPod touch (or compatible Android player) and a 500GB wi-fi hard drive.  That solution is about $400 and you would need a DC to AC adapter in the car to power the wi-fi hard drive.  Seagate (or Western Digital, I can't remember) makes one but it only gets about 3-4 hours on a single charge.
Title: Replacement LARGER Hard Drive Models For Ipod Classic?
Post by: The_Egg on 06 August, 2012, 07:46:24 PM
@ kornchild2002

Lets just say that I've been following aftermarket car stereos for many years, and if it were as simple as plugging in an external hard drive, you've got to believe I would've already done it without blinking.  I've got a 30k song collection and I want it all accessible at the same time, with the least amount of BS'ing around.

The 240GB drives are available on Ebay for around $105, and refurbished "thick" aluminum backplates for <$30.  I'm really not looking to argue my reasoning.  I'm only interested in overcoming the technical hurdles preventing me from achieving my goal.
Title: Replacement LARGER Hard Drive Models For Ipod Classic?
Post by: quackalist on 06 August, 2012, 11:30:18 PM
delete me


Strange, that's what someone did to my iPod Classic 80 Gb HD by bumping into me while rushing for a bus.  & reason enough not to consider mechanical storage on the move...you know it doesn't make sense.
Title: Replacement LARGER Hard Drive Models For Ipod Classic?
Post by: greynol on 07 August, 2012, 12:46:29 AM
Either that or invest in an 8GB iPod touch (or compatible Android player) and a 500GB wi-fi hard drive.

How is the iPod Touch grabbing tracks from the hard drive?
Title: Replacement LARGER Hard Drive Models For Ipod Classic?
Post by: marvnmars on 03 January, 2013, 06:22:22 PM
i understand the op's pain..the world has gone the way of the idevice and if you go through the aggrevating trouble of re-installing your cd liberary in itunes lossess format, you then want/need a way to play back over a terabyte of music, the icloud only stores compressed files, google play same, etc... i think maybe the best way is to use a ipod touch going through your phones internet connection to a home baised media server...big pita tho and no guarntee on the connection working when you want/need it too..the ipod classic hs the easiest to use interface of any current media player, every current decent aftermarket head unit has a way to opperate an ipod classic, the good ones have built in dac's to bypass the crappy ipod headphone jack output..i have heard of a  500gb hd in a 5th gen ipod cassic with rock box as a working unit and itunes still being the liberary...i am hoping that is a real solution..as 3 of those would work for me. i am still angwey that the few cds i have put into itunes over the years (190 gb compressed) now have to be re eterend into itues to become lossless....i need to hire a monkey to put cds into my computer... fwiw, i am wondering what solution the op found.
Title: Replacement LARGER Hard Drive Models For Ipod Classic?
Post by: shawburn on 25 January, 2013, 06:28:16 AM
Alright.....I've done a bit of research, and I've also received an additional Ipod as a gift from a friend.  The details of my Ipods are currently:

#1
Ipod "Video" 5th Generation
A1136 (EMC 2065)
60GB "thick"

#2
Ipod Classic 7th Generation (Late 2009)
A1238 (EMC 2173)
160GB "thin"

As I mentioned above, the only hard drive I see being verified to work is the Toshiba MK2431GAH 240GB.  While I wouldn't mind even more space, this is at least a 50% improvement in capacity, so it would be worthwhile in either circumstance. 

Question #1: If I install this hard drive into the older Ipod #1, is it going to need a custom firmware to be able to see the full 240GB?

Question #2: From what I've gathered, this new hard drive will not physically fit into Ipod #2 because it is a "thin" model.  However, I found refurbished thick rear panels for sale.  Will one of these thick rear panels physically connect to my newer 7th Gen Ipod #2?

Question #3: Will the new hard drive need any sort of special formatting before being installed?

Question #4: Other than Ebay, do any reputable dealers sell this drive?


Fitted the Toshiba MK2431GAH 240GB to my classic 5th gen.
No problem at all, connected to itunes, welcome new ipod message then did a sync of over 20000 songs and still got 60 gig spare.

Bought it on Ebay and was delivered within seven days from china. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200815135985?ssP...984.m1439.l2649 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200815135985?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649)
Hope this helps.
Title: Replacement LARGER Hard Drive Models For Ipod Classic?
Post by: shawburn on 25 January, 2013, 06:29:31 AM
Fitted the Toshiba MK2431GAH 240GB to my classic 5th gen.
No problem at all, connected to itunes, welcome new ipod message then did a sync of over 20000 songs and still got 60 gig spare.

Bought it on Ebay and was delivered within seven days from china. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200815135985?ssP...984.m1439.l2649 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200815135985?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649)
Hope this helps.
Title: Replacement LARGER Hard Drive Models For Ipod Classic?
Post by: tsandrew on 03 March, 2013, 12:08:00 AM
Alright.....I've done a bit of research, and I've also received an additional Ipod as a gift from a friend.  The details of my Ipods are currently:

#1
Ipod "Video" 5th Generation
A1136 (EMC 2065)
60GB "thick"

#2
Ipod Classic 7th Generation (Late 2009)
A1238 (EMC 2173)
160GB "thin"

As I mentioned above, the only hard drive I see being verified to work is the Toshiba MK2431GAH 240GB.  While I wouldn't mind even more space, this is at least a 50% improvement in capacity, so it would be worthwhile in either circumstance. 

Question #1: If I install this hard drive into the older Ipod #1, is it going to need a custom firmware to be able to see the full 240GB?

Question #2: From what I've gathered, this new hard drive will not physically fit into Ipod #2 because it is a "thin" model.  However, I found refurbished thick rear panels for sale.  Will one of these thick rear panels physically connect to my newer 7th Gen Ipod #2?

Question #3: Will the new hard drive need any sort of special formatting before being installed?

Question #4: Other than Ebay, do any reputable dealers sell this drive?



1. I would install this into the 7th Gen iPod. Besides avoiding the risk of firmware issues, you would be able to use the Genius feature to sift through all your music.
2. Yes - the thick rear panel will work just fine.
3. The new hard drive will need a regular format, quick format through Windows PC should be just fine.
4. I've recently started up a small business catering specifically to making 240GB 7th Generation iPod Classics. I have already sold some through eBay (user ID tsandrew) for about $250 door-to-door: http://www.ebay.com/itm/261174835929?ssPag...984.m1561.l2649 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/261174835929?ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1561.l2649)
If you're only interested in a 240GB upgrade kit, I use the MK2431GAH Toshiba drive. The drive is bundled with a new HDD cable, battery, and laser-printed 240GB backplate. If you're interested in either the drive or a new 7th Gen iPod, please contact me here or via email: newt.tsai at gmail.

Cheers! hope this helps.
Title: Replacement LARGER Hard Drive Models For Ipod Classic?
Post by: Arnold B. Krueger on 05 March, 2013, 08:43:42 AM
Question #4: Other than Ebay, do any reputable dealers sell this drive?


1. I would install this into the 7th Gen iPod. Besides avoiding the risk of firmware issues, you would be able to use the Genius feature to sift through all your music.
2. Yes - the thick rear panel will work just fine.
3. The new hard drive will need a regular format, quick format through Windows PC should be just fine.
4. I've recently started up a small business catering specifically to making 240GB 7th Generation iPod Classics. I have already sold some through eBay (user ID tsandrew) for about $250 door-to-door: http://www.ebay.com/itm/261174835929?ssPag...984.m1561.l2649 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/261174835929?ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1561.l2649)
If you're only interested in a 240GB upgrade kit, I use the MK2431GAH Toshiba drive. The drive is bundled with a new HDD cable, battery, and laser-printed 240GB backplate. If you're interested in either the drive or a new 7th Gen iPod, please contact me here or via email: newt.tsai at gmail.


Given that 1.8"  SSDs  are coming down in price and have so many practical advantages for portable devices (shock resistance, power) I wonder when they will become the next hot thing?

http://www.oczenterprise.com/ssd-products/...6g-1-8-mlc.html (http://www.oczenterprise.com/ssd-products/deneva-2-c-sata-6g-1-8-mlc.html)
Title: Replacement LARGER Hard Drive Models For Ipod Classic?
Post by: tsandrew on 05 March, 2013, 09:46:06 AM
Given that 1.8"  SSDs  are coming down in price and have so many practical advantages for portable devices (shock resistance, power) I wonder when they will become the next hot thing?

http://www.oczenterprise.com/ssd-products/...6g-1-8-mlc.html (http://www.oczenterprise.com/ssd-products/deneva-2-c-sata-6g-1-8-mlc.html)


SSDs are certainly an option for iPod classics, and it's something I've looked into myself, especially as I'm still waiting for parts to arrive from my latest shipment.

The problem with SSDs, aside from cost, will be the special iPod ZIF connector. This is a somewhat outdated connector (akin to the older IDE vs modern SATA for PCs) and, as such, I personally do not expect prices to decrease for these special SSD, ZIF-connector drives.

Currently, prices stand at around $250 for the lowest-capacity SSDs (NOTE: you can purchase an entirely NEW 240GB iPod from me for this price!) and probably over $400 for 160GB SSDs. I'm not sure 240GB SSDs currently exist for iPod.

Hope that was at least somewhat informative!
Title: Replacement LARGER Hard Drive Models For Ipod Classic?
Post by: skamp on 05 March, 2013, 10:39:08 AM
The voltage is also important: the iPod won't work with SSDs that need more than 3.3V.
Title: Replacement LARGER Hard Drive Models For Ipod Classic?
Post by: AshenTech on 09 June, 2013, 11:09:42 PM
bought from the fellow above, hes been very responsive and helpful

im wondering if an sdhc/sdxc to zif converter or cf to zif converter would be worth trying?
Title: Replacement LARGER Hard Drive Models For Ipod Classic?
Post by: Robarino on 31 October, 2015, 04:08:58 PM
The 5th generation and 7th generation iPods do not have the same physical interface.  A drive which plugs into one will not plug into the other.

Actually, one of the few things I'm fairly certain of is that they have the same Parallel ATA ZIF-cable interface. 

The 6th generation "Classic" shipped with a CE-ATA interface, so unless they switched it back to the PATA-ZIF of the 5th gen that is incorrect.

This shit really isn't hard to verify.



I know this is an old thread, but just so nobody else does a search and gets mislead by the above comment, I thought I'd chime in.

FACT:  CE-ATA *IS* PATA-ZIF.  They both refer to the exact same physical interface and drive protocol.     


Technically, "CE-ATA" is the Consumer Electronics group that defined the ATA interface for small electronics. 
They created the PATA-ZIF connector.  (  Parallell ATA - Zero Insertion Force)


Oh, and for the record I have taken old 30gb harddrives from 5th generation iPods and gotten them working in both 6th and 7th generation ipods just fine. The connections are identical.    The issue is that many of the early 5th generation motherboards only have 32mb of ram so you run into problems if the harddrive is larger then 80gb.  They'll work but once you put more then 80~90gb of music on the drive, the ipod starts to malfunction.  It won't go to sleep, the album artwork doesn't show up, the battery drains quickly, or it just crashes.  Motherboards with 64mb of ram support larger capacity harddrives just fine.
Title: Replacement LARGER Hard Drive Models For Ipod Classic?
Post by: Nichttaub on 31 October, 2015, 10:13:06 PM
Glad someone dredged this thread up again; I missed it the first time.

I've had free space problems associated with portable audio players on and off over the years.  My 160GB Classic is fine today if I downcode everything to 128Kbps, but I still have to be choosy about what I put on it.  I keep hoping Apple will provide a larger storage iPod in the future.

In the meanwhile, what I am testing in my car is a Fiio X1.  It has removable micro SD cards, so if I need more storage today I can just swap cards; much faster than reloading a unit with fixed memory.  Not ideal, but they say larger cards will be supported in the future, so I'm hanging on to it to see how it works for me.  So far, I have no issues whatever with the sound (not surprising).  It has a line + headphone output with fairly good drive capabilities, which is very convenient; and the charging/sync port is a standard micro USB.  File copying is drag-and-drop, and the unit can be configured to auto-update the index so you just copy files across and let the player build the menu - no special s/w required.  They've removed the 5000 file limit recently, too - I have almost 12000 files on mine and other than the time it takes to scroll through the menus, no problems with navigation.

The hardware and UI are less sophisticated and more buggy than Apple's, but for $99 plus $50 for the memory card, it's a pretty good deal.  I haven't become annoyed with it yet.