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Topic: [TROLL BAITING] From: Audibility of Jitter (Read 9365 times) previous topic - next topic
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[TROLL BAITING] From: Audibility of Jitter

Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
We hear very little about people hearing jitter during LP playback, yet there is jitter in LP playback that is commonly less than 60 dB down.

But Arny, LP jitter is good jitter. You know, the type that Mikey F. prefers.

--Ethan
I believe in Truth, Justice, and the Scientific Method
 

[TROLL BAITING] From: Audibility of Jitter

Reply #1 –
Quote from: Ethan Winer on
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
We hear very little about people hearing jitter during LP playback, yet there is jitter in LP playback that is commonly less than 60 dB down.

But Arny, LP jitter is good jitter. You know, the type that Mikey F. prefers.



Yes, high end reviewers are quite the hoot. Not only do they hear faults that aren't there, they fail to hear egregious faults that are there. I true study in the power of perception.

BTW I found a scientific paper about this. It is called:

Golden Ears and Meter Readers: The Contest for Epistemic Authority in Audiophilia
Author(s): Marc Perlman
Source: Social Studies of Science, Vol. 34, No. 5, Special Issue on Sound Studies: New
Technologies and Music (Oct., 2004), pp. 783-807

This is a peer-reviewed scientific paper.

Abstract:

ABSTRACT Scientific claims to knowledge and the uses of technological artifacts are
both inherently contestable, but both are not usually contested together. Consumers
of 'specialty' audio equipment (known as the 'high end'), however, connect both
forms of resistance. These 'audiophiles' construct their own universe of meaning
around their equipment; they cultivate a distinctive vocabulary and set of attitudes.
In this they resemble other groups of users dedicated to supposedly antiquated
technology. But they also engage in controversy to defend themselves against
knowledge-claims that would delegitimize their universe of meaning. These debates
concern recording formats or media (the relative merits of the compact disk [CD] and
long-playing record [LP]), user 'tweaks' of purchased equipment, and the supposed
audibility of differences between different brands of amplifiers, cables, or CD players.
In all of these cases, audiophiles resist the claims of audio engineering by privileging
their personal experiences, and they argue against scientific methodologies that seem
to expose those experiences as illusory. Some of these patterns of epistemic
contestation resemble those in non-musical domains (such as biomedicine). But
audiophiles also make epistemic use of values crucial to their identity as music-lovers.
They appeal to a common understanding of music as an exemplary locus of
subjectivity, emotion, and self-surrender, in order to ward off the criticisms directed
at them from a science they construe as objective, detached, and dispassionate.

[TROLL BAITING] From: Audibility of Jitter

Reply #2 –
Quote from: Ethan Winer on
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
We hear very little about people hearing jitter during LP playback, yet there is jitter in LP playback that is commonly less than 60 dB down.

But Arny, LP jitter is good jitter. You know, the type that Mikey F. prefers.

--Ethan


Good grief, Ethan. You are complaining to me via private email about being made fun of on the Stereophile forum, yet here you are making fun of Michael Fremer on HA. Surely you can't have it both ways?

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

[TROLL BAITING] From: Audibility of Jitter

Reply #3 –
Quote from: Stereoeditor on
Quote from: Ethan Winer on
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
We hear very little about people hearing jitter during LP playback, yet there is jitter in LP playback that is commonly less than 60 dB down.

But Arny, LP jitter is good jitter. You know, the type that Mikey F. prefers.

--Ethan

Good grief, Ethan. You are complaining to me via private email about being made fun of on the Stereophile forum, yet here you are making fun of Michael Fremer on HA. Surely you can't have it both ways?


It's all a matter of whose ox is getting gored, isn't it?

[TROLL BAITING] From: Audibility of Jitter

Reply #4 –
Quote from: Stereoeditor on
Good grief, Ethan. You are complaining to me via private email about being made fun of on the Stereophile forum, yet here you are making fun of Michael Fremer on HA. Surely you can't have it both ways?

First, I didn't specify the name Fremer, and second, I don't try to harm him or his products. I may mention someone's silliness in passing, but I am not obsessed with destroying his livelihood. And I don't have a sticky on my web site to defame him, as you do on your site to defame me. Can you not see the difference?

Further, the defining difference is that I am correct on the science, while Mikey with beliefs such as demagnetizing vinyl is incorrect. So I'd say this falls under "The truth is the best defense."

--Ethan
I believe in Truth, Justice, and the Scientific Method

[TROLL BAITING] From: Audibility of Jitter

Reply #5 –
...and finally, it never hurts to apologize.

[TROLL BAITING] From: Audibility of Jitter

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Ethan Winer on
Quote from: Stereoeditor on
Good grief, Ethan. You are complaining to me via private email about being made fun of on the Stereophile forum, yet here you are making fun of Michael Fremer on HA. Surely you can't have it both ways?

First, I didn't specify the name Fremer...


My apologies, Ethan. I had assumed from your use of the name "Mikey F." and your mention of analog playback technology that you were indeed referring to Michael Fremer. But now you have explained it to me, yes, you could have been meant _anyone_. :-)

Quote
and second, I don't try to harm him or his products. I may mention someone's silliness in passing, but I am not obsessed with destroying his livelihood.


Neither Michael Fremer nor myself nor any Stereophile writer is "obsessed with destroying [your] livelihood," Ethan. In fact, Stereophile recently published a positive review of your products. And regarding criticisms made of you and your products in Web forums, as I have told you, people are free to hold and express whatever opinions of you and your products they wish. I did not see why your company being at that time an advertiser in my magazine should be a reason to shield you from public criticisms.

Quote
And I don't have a sticky on my web site to defame him, as you do on your site to defame me. Can you not see the difference?


I am sorry the sticky offends you. For the benefit of others, it concerns Ethan's being banned from the forum at www.stereophile.com for repeatedly breaking our forum's rules. It was not a decision taken lightly nor in haste and not without warning and I don't regard its presence or the wording as "defaming" you.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile



[TROLL BAITING] From: Audibility of Jitter

Reply #7 –
Quote from: Stereoeditor on
I had assumed from your use of the name "Mikey F." and your mention of analog playback technology that you were indeed referring to Michael Fremer.

The difference is one shows up in a Google search for "Michael Fremer" and the other does not.

Quote
I am sorry the sticky offends you. For the benefit of others, it concerns Ethan's being banned from the forum at www.stereophile.com for repeatedly breaking our forum's rules.

Except SAS was allowed to break the same rules, and he's still there.

John, most forums do not allow hostile personal vendettas by anyone, whether a manufacturer or an anonymous poster hiding behind an amphibious screen name. Common sense and common decency seem in short supply these days, which is worse when the same people seem otherwise intelligent and civil.

--Ethan
I believe in Truth, Justice, and the Scientific Method

[TROLL BAITING] From: Audibility of Jitter

Reply #8 –
Ethan, we all know damn well who you meant by "Mikey F."

What does this have to do with testing for the audibility of jitter?

The two of you can take this up via PM.  Neither of you have any business discussing this here.