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Topic: Search-by-Distance-SMP (Read 2621 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Search-by-Distance-SMP

Reply #50
I forgot to add that there is a difference about the way the data is added in those tags. One Tagger uses the Spotify model (which I think it's much much easier for the normal Foobar users, and I assume it's easier for you, in SMP, if you ever decide to use those tags). Picard's model I think it's more difficult (better said it's almost useless) for normal users because it's harder to use those values from tags.
For example , for Danceability :
in Picard , we have 2 tags, with these values
AB:HI:DANCEABILITY:DANCEABLE                   0.973414301872
AB:HI:DANCEABILITY:NOT DANCEABLE          0.0265856720507

In One Tagger, only one tag, easier:
1T_DANCEABILITY                        78

I noticed an interesting tag in Picard (gender tag), it's not offered by One Tagger :

AB:HI:GENDER:FEMALE             0.972042262554
AB:HI:GENDER:MALE                 0.0279577393085
This is a song by Janet Jackson.
Is it possible to add a gender filter ( for CUI filters , Album list panel, Library tree SMP, or other option) , using the data from those 2 tags?
If it is possible I could use Picard for this.
Another thing, I noticed that One tagger finds results for more songs, maybe it's possible that Spotify's data base is larger (or maybe it only happened to me).
Btw, if Spotify is not available in your country, and you need it to use One tagger (client id and client secret)I guess I can make an account for you and give you those dates.

Re: Search-by-Distance-SMP

Reply #51
I forgot to add that there is a difference about the way the data is added in those tags. One Tagger uses the Spotify model (which I think it's much much easier for the normal Foobar users, and I assume it's easier for you, in SMP, if you ever decide to use those tags). Picard's model I think it's more difficult (better said it's almost useless) for normal users because it's harder to use those values from tags.
For example , for Danceability :
in Picard , we have 2 tags, with these values
AB:HI:DANCEABILITY:DANCEABLE                   0.973414301872
AB:HI:DANCEABILITY:NOT DANCEABLE          0.0265856720507

In One Tagger, only one tag, easier:
1T_DANCEABILITY                        78

I noticed an interesting tag in Picard (gender tag), it's not offered by One Tagger :

AB:HI:GENDER:FEMALE             0.972042262554
AB:HI:GENDER:MALE                 0.0279577393085
This is a song by Janet Jackson.
Is it possible to add a gender filter ( for CUI filters , Album list panel, Library tree SMP, or other option) , using the data from those 2 tags?
If it is possible I could use Picard for this.
Another thing, I noticed that One tagger finds results for more songs, maybe it's possible that Spotify's data base is larger (or maybe it only happened to me).
Btw, if Spotify is not available in your country, and you need it to use One tagger (client id and client secret)I guess I can make an account for you and give you those dates.
Picard gives that data, but you are not supposed to use it as you did. I.e. it gives:
Code: [Select]
variable A: {
       value: Y,
       X: 40%,
       Y: 60%,
}
You may extract X and Y as you did, or just extract the bigger one, which is considered the actual "tag" (value). Spotify just gives you the percentage, but not the tag. i.e. it gives a number, but you have to convert that into actual tag values (danceable, not danceable). You simply have to configure it right. This is an example of the data that can be extracted (note some low level data and high level data have same name but are different things!)
https://acousticbrainz.org/373d355f-faae-4851-9022-11bcc4144ed3

Use cases are different. I see totally useless a percentage on queries ;) but obviously in SMP it can make sense. So in fact I disagree and I find more useful to have tag names (acoustic, danceable, party) than numbers on foobar2000, while it may be the opposite for a similarity scoring method.

About it finding more songs... yes and no. Let me remind you Spotify is closed source data. If I don't find a CD on picard I can submit it, there is a plugin which even copies the actual info from tracks and opens the web in your browser with that data. It takes 15 seconds to add a release. Then I can run their analysis tool on my PC and submit the data. Some time later if I reload the same album at picard it will be recognized and the data (mood, key, bpm, etc.) will be there ready to be saved on my files. Good luck doing that with Spotify hahahaha

I mean, they are different tools from different frame-minds. You can not add any data to One Tagger, you can only use what's there. If some release is missing you are out of luck, while the open source approach lets you collaborate and add those pieces. Obviously Spotify is the winner if we talk about which one has the bigger database... but not necessarily the one which satisfies everyone needs. One Tagger is also using discogs to tag releases, which is clearly out of scope for Piccard (and I agree it's a bigger database too).

In any case I'm not suggesting to use Picard for standard tagging (I use discogs) but only for Mood, BPM, key, etc. Composers are also a plus. And there you have too instruments, relationships,etc.

Re: Search-by-Distance-SMP

Reply #52
Well first discogs requires an account, the rest of the servers are mant for DJs (electronic music). So it's not as pretty as it seemed.
The audio features requires an spotify account as suspected.
Tried with a rolling stones album (12x5) with no luck hahaha
It also doesn't use any fingerprinting, so it looks for tags only if you filled some of the basic ones (or by filename). While picard recognizes audio even if it has zero tags.
Drag n drop is broken, it uses an electron interface and tries to reproduce the files instead of using them to find tags! You can drag n drop folders into picard without problems. Tag saving is not done automatically, you can discard/accept changes, here it's done without notice.
etc.
Picard gives you different releases to choose from. Discogs would allow you to do that, but the way it's implement limits that option since it's done all automatically.

Can not check the spotify audio features without an account, so at least the only part that would be really useful is out of my reach. Sorry for being so critic, but as a standard tagger it really sucks hahahaha (greatly prefer mp3tag+discogs, or picard or foobar+discogs) I will try to create an spotify account to test it more.

Re: Search-by-Distance-SMP

Reply #53
I think this gif shows most of the problems I mentioned:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

But will try the Spotify thing since that was the main point anyway.

Re: Search-by-Distance-SMP

Reply #54
It's my fault , I should have warned you, haha. But now you understand why I didn't mentioned not even a single word about One Tagger's capabilities as a standard tagger, because it can't compete with Picard or other programs. It's meant to be used mostly by Dj
It's still a new software, it appeared 2 or 3 months ago, so we can't really compare anything. It will never be like Picard, MP3tag, or others, just a simple , maybe faster solution for some that don't need many features.
What I liked (I didn't even tested anything else) was only one thing, the Spotify implementation (which I think it's missing from other programs, no?),  it's also free . Obviously I would be glad if Spotify implementation appears in other programs, then I will not use One Tagger at all, haha . There is room for everybody, I also use Mp3tag, Picard, or Jaikoz Tagger

"Sorry for being so critic''
No problem, it's not my software :) As you said, they're different tools, even though they're both taggers, haha, they have a different vision and use

Hmm, I didn't quite understood you here ,about my question with the gender tag, sorry :
''You may extract X and Y as you did, or just extract the bigger one, which is considered the actual "tag" (value). Spotify just gives you the percentage, but not the tag. i.e. it gives a number, but you have to convert that into actual tag values (danceable, not danceable). You simply have to configure it right. ''

How can I get the actual "tag" (value)? I don't want a number in Gender tag, I want Male or Female. There's a setting in Picard? (I didn't find it) Or is something more complicated?





Re: Search-by-Distance-SMP

Reply #55
Its supposed that you may configure the plugin in such a way that you simply get the tag value (male) instead of numbers for both values. When I created a plugin for picard I did it that way (and that's what I use), have not tested it since then with that new plugin which extracts all data. I will take a look at it and report, since there must be a way. Either in the program or editing the plugin, if it's the latter I will upload my own fork of it.

Re: Search-by-Distance-SMP

Reply #56
Have updated the repository with the new menus to remap all missing tags, set weights, etc. This:
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php?topic=120982.msg1000945#msg1000945
Also added the presets (masstagger) and a great optimization on speed for harmonic mixing.

If anyone want to test it, download the files directly from the repository not the releases. Please have in mind the relative path bug on SMP has not been solved yet, so I have no idea if it will work for you!
(it's recommended to also download the latest files from the rest of my scripts in that case, since I have changed all with major changes)

 

Re: Search-by-Distance-SMP

Reply #57
I forgot to add that there is a difference about the way the data is added in those tags. One Tagger uses the Spotify model (which I think it's much much easier for the normal Foobar users, and I assume it's easier for you, in SMP, if you ever decide to use those tags). Picard's model I think it's more difficult (better said it's almost useless) for normal users because it's harder to use those values from tags.
For example , for Danceability :
in Picard , we have 2 tags, with these values
AB:HI:DANCEABILITY:DANCEABLE                   0.973414301872
AB:HI:DANCEABILITY:NOT DANCEABLE          0.0265856720507

In One Tagger, only one tag, easier:
1T_DANCEABILITY                        78

I noticed an interesting tag in Picard (gender tag), it's not offered by One Tagger :

AB:HI:GENDER:FEMALE             0.972042262554
AB:HI:GENDER:MALE                 0.0279577393085
This is a song by Janet Jackson.
Is it possible to add a gender filter ( for CUI filters , Album list panel, Library tree SMP, or other option) , using the data from those 2 tags?
If it is possible I could use Picard for this.
Another thing, I noticed that One tagger finds results for more songs, maybe it's possible that Spotify's data base is larger (or maybe it only happened to me).
Btw, if Spotify is not available in your country, and you need it to use One tagger (client id and client secret)I guess I can make an account for you and give you those dates.
Back to the topic, the answer was scripting. Picard allows automatic scripting, so those multiple tags can be used to set only once with numbers or labels.

To get a label:
Code: [Select]
$set(timbre,‎$if($gte($substr(%ab:hi:timbre:bright%,2,3),5),Bright,Dark))
To get a number from 0 to 100:
Code: [Select]
$set(brightness,‎$substr(%ab:hi:timbre:bright%,2,4))

Note AcousticBrainz tags are complementary, i.e. ab:hi:timbre:bright and ab:hi:timbre:dark should sum 1... so only one of them is needed for scripting.

X

X

X

X

Applying the same principle to every tag, you may get full labels for all the data tags and also one number per set of tags (danceability, gender, etc.).

Finally you can remove the unwanted tags:
Code: [Select]
$unset(ab:hi:timbre:bright)
$unset(ab:hi:timbre:dark)
...

As can be seen, it's really hard to improve this workflow... since scripting allows you to do almost anything at picard (without needing to use masstagger at a later point at foobar). In conclusion, I still find better to use AcousticBrainz data since it's open source, does not require a third party api key by a closed source program (spotify), allows scripting to modify tags to your needs and offers both full tag labeling and/or raw values (numbers) to be used at a later point by other programs or scripts (foobar and SMP). Not saying I will not look at the spotify thing, but right now  I can assure this works.

Also I know regular users are "not capable" of writing such scripts for picard... but in that case they are also not capable of setting onetagger with an spotify api or setting these SMP scripts right to use those tags. In all cases it only requires a bit of time and attention...

As a solution, I will write myself the full set of picard's scripts which along the plugin should provide all the desired tags: gender, timbre, danceability, etc. with labels and/or single number (per set of tags). Only work left at user's side would be to install the required plugin, copy/paste the scripts and decide which tags they want to retrieve. I use pìcard too so makes sense to release it publicly. That should cover all problems you have with picard while also fulfilling all the requisites.

Right now I will put my efforts only in the tagging part. Those extra tags may be used -now- as custom string tags and custom num tags on Search by Distance. Also as queries in Playlist Tools. At some point I may implement them as default tags with their own logic.

 
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