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Topic: [1:1Copy] which data is stored on a normal audio CD ? (Read 4322 times) previous topic - next topic
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[1:1Copy] which data is stored on a normal audio CD ?

hi,
i want to backup all my audio CDs (at least those I buy from now on, because I'm not very careful with them and I want to burn them then again if there are scratched and don't play anymore)

but I don't want them as audio CDs but as wav files, because maybe I want to encode them sometime later again (I'd like to encode all my old CDs I encoded with audio catalyst 2 years ago now with lame or OGG but I can't because they're all damaged  ). so it's not very intelligent to backup my CDs as audio CDs, because ripping from burned CDs is not very recommendable.

ok, so I want to rip all my CDs from the original audio CD as a wav file to my disk and burn it as a data CD rom. if I want a audio later I can easily copy the wav files to my disk again and burn the CD as a audio CD. But there's one problem: I want 1:1 copies. so I need all the information which is stored on the original CD. like titles and names and identify numbers or whatever is stored on all audio CDs.

I guess I just need a proper cue sheet. does the following cue sheet contain all the information I need so I get real 1:1 copies ? (although I do not burn them "on-the-fly" or DAO...)

CATALOG 5099750866627
PERFORMER "Oasis"
TITLE "Heathen Chemistry"
FILE "CDImage.wav" WAVE
  TRACK 01 AUDIO
    TITLE "The Hindu Times"
    PERFORMER "Oasis"
    ISRC GBBQY0202055
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
  TRACK 02 AUDIO
    TITLE "Force Of Nature"
    PERFORMER "Oasis"
    ISRC GBBQY0202061
    INDEX 01 03:46:30
...
...
...

I hope this is understandable...

thanks

[1:1Copy] which data is stored on a normal audio CD ?

Reply #1
I don't know, but you'll have to compress the wavs to a lossless format, like Monkeys audio, because many audio Cds are near 80 Minutes, and the wavs, 800 MB, won't fit into a 700 MB CDR.
You can burn the decoder with the compressed files, for safety.

[1:1Copy] which data is stored on a normal audio CD ?

Reply #2
hm I dont know if u understood my question right...
I dont want to compress my files

I want 1:1 copies in the respect of gaps, indexes, ISRC, CDtext and stuff...

[1:1Copy] which data is stored on a normal audio CD ?

Reply #3
Quote
Originally posted by Xenion
hm I dont know if u understood my question right...
I dont want to compress my files

I want 1:1 copies in the respect of gaps, indexes, ISRC, CDtext and stuff...


If you take the audio tracks and convert them to Wav, they will take more space. If you convert a CD that is filled to the brim with audio, the WAVs ripped from this CD won't fit in another CD with the same size.

The reasons:

-The way WAV format works
-The way Data CD is written (in comparision to Audio CD writing)

That's why lossless would be the only solution for some CDs.

Regards;

Roberto.

[1:1Copy] which data is stored on a normal audio CD ?

Reply #4
Quote
Originally posted by Xenion
I want 1:1 copies in the respect of gaps, indexes, ISRC, CDtext and stuff...

Yes, cue sheet should store all the information your drive is able to read.

[1:1Copy] which data is stored on a normal audio CD ?

Reply #5
Quote
Originally posted by Xenion
I dont want to compress my files


Then you'll have to backup most CDs onto two CD ROMS instead of one.

[1:1Copy] which data is stored on a normal audio CD ?

Reply #6
Quote
Originally posted by Xenion
hm I dont know if u understood my question right...
I dont want to compress my files

I want 1:1 copies in the respect of gaps, indexes, ISRC, CDtext and stuff...
There seems to be some confusion going on here. I don't know if you're familiar with lossless compression vs. lossy compression. What Pio2001 by "compressed files" was losslessly compressed files, which are 1:1 copies of the .wav files, just like a textfile compressed in a .zip file is still the exact same data once it's decompressed. So when you use lossless compression, you can still rebuild the exact audio CD, because when you decompress the files you get the exact original .wav audio data. Forgive me if you already know all this.

The bigger problem is getting all of the other proper information stored. CD-Text, gap length, and pre-gap data must all be stored. I think EAC can do all this, but I am certainly no expert on the matter.

[1:1Copy] which data is stored on a normal audio CD ?

Reply #7
Quote
Originally posted by SometimesWarrior
There seems to be some confusion going on here. I don't know if you're familiar with lossless compression vs. lossy compression. What Pio2001 by "compressed files" was losslessly compressed files, which are 1:1 copies of the .wav files, just like a textfile compressed in a .zip file is still the exact same data once it's decompressed. So when you use lossless compression, you can still rebuild the exact audio CD, because when you decompress the files you get the exact original .wav audio data. Forgive me if you already know all this.

The bigger problem is getting all of the other proper information stored. CD-Text, gap length, and pre-gap data must all be stored. I think EAC can do all this, but I am certainly no expert on the matter.



but I think I'll leave the wavs as they are....
in the time the compression (lossless) needs I can burn the wav files on 2 CDs
thanks anyway

I'm more interessted in the other stuff like gap lenth and CD text /etc

[1:1Copy] which data is stored on a normal audio CD ?

Reply #8
Monkey's Audio (lossless) compresses VERY fast at its 'normal' setting, and I'd imagine its 'fast' modes would be fast enough even if you have an ancient celeron or something.  On my system, even on 'extra high' compression it is significantly faster than LAME, or even MPC.

For those with unnatural concern (not saying you are) with keeping their backups safe, one can use the space saved with lossless compression to add .par files (parity) to add data redundancy.  That way if part of the disc is damaged, you can likely recover the files from the .par files (stored on the same disc) easily.

[1:1Copy] which data is stored on a normal audio CD ?

Reply #9
sorry, could you explain how you create & use .par files? i've never heard of this before, sounds interesting

thanks.

[1:1Copy] which data is stored on a normal audio CD ?

Reply #10
http://www.disc-chord.com/smartpar/
there is another program to do it called fsraid, but I'm unsure where to dl that.

Its mainly meant for the usenet; posting 5 par files along with 20 rar files allows the user recreate any 5 rar files he/she may be missing.

But you can easily load up smartpar, create a new parity set containing 10 .ape or mp3 files, and choose how many pars you want.  Keep in mind that each par is equal in size to the *largest* file in the parity set.  So if the largest song is a 35 mb ape, each par is 35mb.  So if two songs get corrupted, you could restore them, providing you have two par files, and the remaining songs available.

[1:1Copy] which data is stored on a normal audio CD ?

Reply #11
This sounds very interesting. It can really recreate missing files from these .par files? Is there any documentation which explains how it works, with a technical background? I only found out that it works with volumes smililarly to Winrar.

Quote
originally posted by floyd
So if two songs get corrupted, you could restore them, providing you have two par files, and the remaining songs available.

But if two songs become corrupted and you have one par file, you can't restore any file.

[1:1Copy] which data is stored on a normal audio CD ?

Reply #12
Quote
Originally posted by theduke
But if two songs become corrupted and you have one par file, you can't restore any file.


True.  But you always use more than one par.  For a 15 song cd I'd go with 2-4 pars, depending on how much space you have to work with.  If more than 4 songs go bad, well then your cd is pretty much destroyed anyway.

For a more technical description check out the smartpar site and forum.  And I wouldn't use winrar's 'recovery volumes' as they require you to rar your files, and wouldn't work with 10-15 .ape files.

Also I was thinking a shortcoming would be: for certain cds, ie. Pink Floyd 'Meddle'  there is one extremely long song (~20 min) and a few more shorter ones.  So each par file would have to be equal in size to the largest song, which is huge.  So it would work best with cds where songs are more even in length.

[1:1Copy] which data is stored on a normal audio CD ?

Reply #13
Quote
Originally posted by floyd

And I wouldn't use winrar's 'recovery volumes' as they require you to rar your files, and wouldn't work with 10-15 .ape files.

I hadn't intended to do that.

Quote

Also I was thinking a shortcoming would be: for certain cds, ie. Pink Floyd 'Meddle'  there is one extremely long song (~20 min) and a few more shorter ones.  So each par file would have to be equal in size to the largest song, which is huge.  So it would work best with cds where songs are more even in length.

I have a CD with one single track which is over 60mins long. Any suggestions?

[1:1Copy] which data is stored on a normal audio CD ?

Reply #14
Quote
I have a CD with one single track which is over 60mins long. Any suggestions? 


You may:
1. Compress the song using audio lossless compression (Monkey's or FLAC or...)
2. STORE the compressed song using RAR or ACE or ARJ ... (using STORING/no compression mode) - whilst splitting it to say 10-15 volumes (or 10-15MB per volume)
3. Generate PAR's for the volume-splitted archive - will be either compressed file /15 (10) or just 10-15MB per PAR file

...or You can just split the WAV in an audio editor and generate a CUE sheet incorporating all the splitted WAVs into one audio track (I think it is possible - never tried it  ).

 
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