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Topic: Document hmp3 (Helix MP3 encoder) in the Knowledgebase Wiki? (Read 2727 times) previous topic - next topic
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Document hmp3 (Helix MP3 encoder) in the Knowledgebase Wiki?

Hi there,

the hmp3 encoder is woefully underdocumented, both in terms of user-documentation (What do these switches do? What are reasonable settings?) and developer-documentation (How is the code base structured?).

Given that, as far as I can see, most interested users of hmp3 would be HydrogenAudio members and discussion is also here in the forums, I wonder if it is considered appropriate to document things on the HA wiki.

Re: Document hmp3 (Helix MP3 encoder) in the Knowledgebase Wiki?

Reply #1 –
Since there are recommended settings in the LAME article, there shouldn't be anything against putting it in a wiki, but a "recommended" box might not be warranted until there is consensus on what is "best" practice. I'd be inclined to think that if one wraps it in more careful language like "spends more bits on", one could be safe.

One question is of course whether it should be part of the existing Xing article. https://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Xing
Possibly with redirect.

Re: Document hmp3 (Helix MP3 encoder) in the Knowledgebase Wiki?

Reply #2 –
I feel that there might not be enough interested ears for listening tests to determine "recommended" settings with similar confidence to "recommended" settings for Lame. Thus it might be more achievable to aim for guidance for "reasonable" settings.

I'm not quite sure Helix MP3 should be folded into the Xing article. If feel it should be several sub pages, e.g., to differentiate between "user docs" and "developer docs". There are quite some observations about the code base that might be worth documenting which might not at all be interesting to normal users.

Re: Document hmp3 (Helix MP3 encoder) in the Knowledgebase Wiki?

Reply #3 –
These parameters might be seen as "tested and came out reasonable" I guess:
-X2 -U2 -V60
-V111 -HF2
-V146
The latter had no -HF, but the discussion following it might have been a reason why -HF2 was included in the -V111 test. And if one is willing to spend 224 kbit/s, then maybe it isn't "unreasonable" to set the lowpass higher.

Sources from HA:
2008, 140-ish kbit/s (nominally 128, but ...): Public listening test scores Helix -X2 -U2 -V60 insignificantly better than LAME 3.97 -V5 --vbr-new and 3.98 -V5.7 & more.  2012, confirmed in a private test by IgorC using same Helix setting against LAME 3.98.4 -V 5.7
2016, 193 kbit/s: @kamedo2 finds that Helix  -V111 -HF2 beats LAME 3.99.5 -V2.3 and 3.100.alpha2 -V2.75. 
2013, 224 kbit/s: kamedo2 finds "everything tied" but Blade, the Helix setting used is -V146 . See Reply #8 about -HF, which is likely the reason why -HF2 was used in 2016.
 

Re: Document hmp3 (Helix MP3 encoder) in the Knowledgebase Wiki?

Reply #5 –
And I took the liberty to tweak the https://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Xing article slightly. Moving the Real acquisition up one headline to the part that explains it was part of RealPlayer ... and, the link to the current development just got "longer and more visible", sorry not sorry.

Actually I think that those who read that far down should see at a glance that there is a updated information available at a click, but I stopped short of linkifying the 2.2. headline.

Re: Document hmp3 (Helix MP3 encoder) in the Knowledgebase Wiki?

Reply #6 –
Please, enter the config for foobar2000 into the wiki, what to write into command line.
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Re: Document hmp3 (Helix MP3 encoder) in the Knowledgebase Wiki?

Reply #7 –
Quote from: itisljar on
Please, enter the config for foobar2000 into the wiki, what to write into command line.

Feel free to clarify if something remains unclear.

• Join our efforts to make Helix MP3 encoder great again
• Opus complexity & qAAC dependence on Apple is an aberration from Vorbis & Musepack breakthroughs
• Let's pray that D. Bryant improve WavPack hybrid, C. Helmrich update FSLAC, M. van Beurden teach FLAC to handle non-audio data

Re: Document hmp3 (Helix MP3 encoder) in the Knowledgebase Wiki?

Reply #8 –
Quote from: itisljar on
Please, enter the config for foobar2000 into the wiki, what to write into command line.
yes, good idea, although it's actually fairly simple based on the encoder switches table in the wiki, just with the addition of - %d , necessary for the output file name

These are the parameters for the absolute best VBR:
Code: [Select]
-V150 -HF2 - %d

The -F20000 that Kraeved adds will instruct the encoder to encode up to 20kHz.
The -D is 'Don't display progress', which I think is irrelevant to running Helix in foobar.

Re: Document hmp3 (Helix MP3 encoder) in the Knowledgebase Wiki?

Reply #9 –
By the way, @maikmerten, it is becoming obvious that there is a need to somehow distinguish between the legacy version of Helix and the one that was released this spring with participation of @Case. The latter is able to process the input up to 32-bit float, whereas the legacy one is limited to 16-bit integer. I suggested increasing the version from 5.2.1 to 5.3 on the help screen and in the LAME tag of output files a week ago.
• Join our efforts to make Helix MP3 encoder great again
• Opus complexity & qAAC dependence on Apple is an aberration from Vorbis & Musepack breakthroughs
• Let's pray that D. Bryant improve WavPack hybrid, C. Helmrich update FSLAC, M. van Beurden teach FLAC to handle non-audio data

Re: Document hmp3 (Helix MP3 encoder) in the Knowledgebase Wiki?

Reply #10 –
Quote from: jaybeee on
The -D is 'Don't display progress', which I think is irrelevant to running Helix in foobar.

Both -U2 and -D are designed to increase the encoding speed without sacrificing the quality. If you look at Foobar2000 presets for other encoders, you'll find similar flags such as -s, --silent. Imagine you're at the grocery store. As soon as you start to walk around the shelves, your beloved calls you and asks you to keep her informed of your every step, which distracts your attention. By using -D flag, you hang up and speed up. Then you realize there are more and more goods in your hands and it's difficult to carry them. By using -U2 flag, you pick up the cart and speed up again. The gain here is modest, but since I've spent time to test this tool rigorously, I want to make the most of it.
• Join our efforts to make Helix MP3 encoder great again
• Opus complexity & qAAC dependence on Apple is an aberration from Vorbis & Musepack breakthroughs
• Let's pray that D. Bryant improve WavPack hybrid, C. Helmrich update FSLAC, M. van Beurden teach FLAC to handle non-audio data

Re: Document hmp3 (Helix MP3 encoder) in the Knowledgebase Wiki?

Reply #11 –
Thanks for that. I did actually have them in originally but when answering itisljar I removed them for simplicity's sake (and obvs tested them and all was ok). And yes, I do have -S in my LAME parameters. Good to know that they're not redundant/irrelevant when running in foobar.

Re: Document hmp3 (Helix MP3 encoder) in the Knowledgebase Wiki?

Reply #12 –
Actually, -U2 is useless for any modern 64-bit compile. The 64-bit compiles are preferable in terms of speed anyways.

I didn't increase the version number in the LAME tags as the changes to the encoder were on the input side (more robust and versatile .wav input), not the output side (still same algorithm with same quality). If one got to correctly feed input into the older versions (old-style 16-bit .wav without trailing data), one would usually still get indistinguishable output.

Re: Document hmp3 (Helix MP3 encoder) in the Knowledgebase Wiki?

Reply #13 –
@maikmerten, I remember that @Case, among other things, fixed the behavior of the resampler and fixed the filling of one frame with an unreasonably low bitrate in CBR mode. Please correct me, but isn't this about quality? It seems my expectation is grounded on the established practice of LAME and FLAC: they change the tag version in each release.


• Join our efforts to make Helix MP3 encoder great again
• Opus complexity & qAAC dependence on Apple is an aberration from Vorbis & Musepack breakthroughs
• Let's pray that D. Bryant improve WavPack hybrid, C. Helmrich update FSLAC, M. van Beurden teach FLAC to handle non-audio data

Re: Document hmp3 (Helix MP3 encoder) in the Knowledgebase Wiki?

Reply #14 –
Fair enough, indeed there were some behavioral fixes as well. I pushed the version up to 5.2.2. (there are not a lot of versions to burn through, though, so one needs to be careful there).

Re: Document hmp3 (Helix MP3 encoder) in the Knowledgebase Wiki?

Reply #15 –
@maikmerten, thank you. Also, I provided feedback on your recent explanations of the Helix's TX flag. It may have drowned in the heat of the debate, but there are questions that you could probably answer.
• Join our efforts to make Helix MP3 encoder great again
• Opus complexity & qAAC dependence on Apple is an aberration from Vorbis & Musepack breakthroughs
• Let's pray that D. Bryant improve WavPack hybrid, C. Helmrich update FSLAC, M. van Beurden teach FLAC to handle non-audio data