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Topic: why vinyl is better than cds? my new collection are in ? (Read 20076 times) previous topic - next topic
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why vinyl is better than cds? my new collection are in ?

hi, I want start again my collection of music.... I sell all my albums for college bla bla... I want start again... I want a lot !!!!!!!!!!! albums, so first I dont like mp3 or flacs... or files!!! I like have the album in my hands.

so I hear around the vinyl is better that cd, yeah? why???

If I choose vinyl, I need a expensive stuff for playing right? I see that shity usb turntables... and I dont know about it but looks very bad! I see this beasts!! but I think that are very expensive http://www.axissaudio.com/turntables/turnTrans.htm price ranges??

the most acceptable albums made that looks like vinyl is the mini japan lps cds... I have some and are trully beautiful (expensive too, $30 around or more for album)

so I have tons of questions about it before start again my collection... so what road take? I need a expensive!!! stuff for play vinyls with a really pro sound? I took mini lps cds.. beacuse is more chaep just put in a regular cd player and done... and is not a lot!!!! the difference between vinyl...

any suggestion and comments guys??? thanks a lot!!!!!!!! 

why vinyl is better than cds? my new collection are in ?

Reply #1 –
Quote from: umbilical on
so I hear around the vinyl is better that cd, yeah? why???

Where did you hear such a silly thing? Audio quality-wise, how can it be? It's not.

why vinyl is better than cds? my new collection are in ?

Reply #2 –
Quote from: andy o on
Quote from: umbilical on
so I hear around the vinyl is better that cd, yeah? why???

Where did you hear such a silly thing? Audio quality-wise, how can it be? It's not.


well you know what I trying to say... audiophiles prefer vinyl... for some reasons are! see this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs1aUws0Lrs...fvst&fmt=18 that guys know what talking about it, and use vinyls...

why vinyl is better than cds? my new collection are in ?

Reply #3 –
Vinyl seems horribly inconvenient compared to what we have now (instant playback at the click of a button). The sound has more distortion than modern audio playback methods, which makes me consider it worse. If I want distortion, I will add it myself. You can't just say that vinyl is better without any qualifiers, such as in what regard it is better. Better at blocking light? Yes, most often. Better at producing clean, undistorted sound? No.

Your idea is probably from hanging around subjectivist audiophile communities too often, where this is a very popular belief, or maybe you just heard this from a friend. If you stick around here long enough, you will certainly learn a thing or two. I've been here for a while, but I lurk and only recently joined. Maybe I will start to post regularly, now.

why vinyl is better than cds? my new collection are in ?

Reply #4 –
It is typically easy to hear the difference between an LP and a CD, so we could say on a blind test basis they sound different.  I haven't done a blind listening (ABX) test recently, but have in the past and just the surface noise alone makes it easy to tell the difference in many cases.

Technically we know that digital audio will out perform the LP - noise level, distortion, channel separation, frequency response are usually much much better in a digital system.

So if an LP (vinyl) sounds different, and based on what we can measure its not as accurate as a digital system, then you are down to choosing the type of "sound" you like. 

If you like how the LP sounds better, than go for it.  If you prefer the digital sound, go for that.  Know that convenience is also very different with the digital formats (CD, MP3, FLAC, etc.) are much more convenient.

And if things like large album artwork, the physical experience of queuing up an LP and changing sides, buying a counter-culture/retro audio format, buying cool looking expensive gear is important to you then go for it.  Seriously, nothing wrong there; fun times.

Just don't claim that the LP is more accurate / "sounds better" than a good digital system with no justification in this forum.
Was that a 1 or a 0?

why vinyl is better than cds? my new collection are in ?

Reply #5 –
Quote from: DigitalMan on
It is typically easy to hear the difference between an LP and a CD, so we could say on a blind test basis they sound different.  I haven't done a blind listening (ABX) test recently, but have in the past and just the surface noise alone makes it easy to tell the difference in many cases.

Technically we know that digital audio will out perform the LP - noise level, distortion, channel separation, frequency response are usually much much better in a digital system.

So if an LP (vinyl) sounds different, and based on what we can measure its not as accurate as a digital system, then you are down to choosing the type of "sound" you like. 

If you like how the LP sounds better, than go for it.  If you prefer the digital sound, go for that.  Know that convenience is also very different with the digital formats (CD, MP3, FLAC, etc.) are much more convenient.

And if things like large album artwork, the physical experience of queuing up an LP and changing sides, buying a counter-culture/retro audio format, buying cool looking expensive gear is important to you then go for it.  Seriously, nothing wrong there; fun times.

Just don't claim that the LP is more accurate / "sounds better" than a good digital system with no justification in this forum.


thanks digital man, I like your response... just I dont say claim that lp sounds better... just I say that  audiophiles like video! that I post say...

have a lot sense for me now that you say about, choosing the type of "sound" you like. yeah the sound is diferent, and I can choose, I see that for me records of the 70s like black sabbath etc... I prefer the sound on vinyl... more classy etc... I hear some recent cds like SHM japan and I hear the they try to sounds like that 70s vinyl sound, sounds great... or the new beatles remasters, that by the way... are no in vinyl just on cd...

well... Now I think that way take, but I want start now, I miss have my albums  thanks

why vinyl is better than cds? my new collection are in ?

Reply #7 –
Quote from: umbilical on
have a lot sense for me now that you say about, choosing the type of "sound" you like. yeah the sound is diferent, and I can choose, I see that for me records of the 70s like black sabbath etc... I prefer the sound on vinyl... more classy etc... I hear some recent cds like SHM japan and I hear the they try to sounds like that 70s vinyl sound, sounds great... or the new beatles remasters, that by the way... are no in vinyl just on cd...

well... Now I think that way take, but I want start now, I miss have my albums  thanks

Yeah, but that's a romantic attachment you have to the "sound" of vinyl, and even the equipment. Hell, the ritual itself would be reason enough for anyone who has money to spare. I don't think anybody here ridicules or even criticizes that, and I'm sure many here still rock their turntables.

But then if you only focus on sound quality, vinyl has nothing on CD. It's often said (maybe not often enough) that you can get "vinyl sound" on digital, but not the reverse.

why vinyl is better than cds? my new collection are in ?

Reply #8 –
I'd suggest buying cheap vinyl at yard sales or thrift stores.  Used record stores often have surprisingly fair prices, too.  And you don't have to wade through hundreds of easy listening, gospel, and show tune records to find something listenable.

Get a used turntable locally; buying off eBay is a huge risk, unless it is from an experienced audio dealer.  Turntables require extraordinary care in packing if they are to arrive intact.  Amateur sellers may misrepresent the condition, and don't understand that packages are dropped and tumbled as a matter of course in shipping.

I've passed up a number of decent turntables at thrift stores priced under $50.  An AR, Connoisseur, a few Technics direct drives, a Radio Shack direct drive that was fifty cents at a flea market.  Some dealers in used vinyl also sell refurbished turntables.  And they can probably hook you up with a reasonable cartridge, or sell you a replacement stylus if the turntable came with a decent one.  You won't get an amazing deal like at a thrift store, but chances are you'll still pay a fraction of what the turntable sold for in the '70s or '80s.

If you need a phono preamp, in a pinch you could get an old stereo receiver, and use the "tape out" as a line output.

Striving for perfection in vinyl playback is madness.  I could argue that the most authentic way to appreciate the Beatles is to listen on a tinny AM radio or a mono suitcase-style record player.  That's how the vast majority of their fans heard them in the '60s.

As to "better"... many turntable/cartridge setups (most?) will pick up some sound from the room, like a microphone.  Also, some sound leaks through from adjacent grooves.  The inner grooves have a lower velocity so the last track may have poorer frequency response than the first.  Tone arms move through an arc, so they are only perfectly in line with the grooves at one or two points; this leads to some distortion.  Linear tracking arms eliminate this, at the expense of complexity.  They look cool, though.

why vinyl is better than cds? my new collection are in ?

Reply #9 –
Quote from: umbilical on
see this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs1aUws0Lrs...fvst&fmt=18 that guys know what talking about it, and use vinyls...


Oh, it's that video again.  Poor bastards. I feel sorry for their families (in case they still have one).

And no, those guys do not know what they are talking about, but they think they know what they are talking about. They sound like 5-year olds who are trying to speak in a foreign language, they can't actually speak, they might impress the other 5-year olds with their babbling nonsense, and that's all that is important to them.

I mean just look at some of their setups. Just look at those piles of junk, it's just hilarious!

ON TOPIC: Have you considered going 100% digital. Skipping CDs and just buy music online? Personally I think that's the most convenient way to get and listen to music these days.

why vinyl is better than cds? my new collection are in ?

Reply #10 –
Modern Vinyls are made from the same 16 bit masters than the CDs. So you have the same quality, plus worse channel seperation, plus rumble and noise.
WavPack 4.50.1 -hhx6 | LAME 3.98.2 -V 0

why vinyl is better than cds? my new collection are in ?

Reply #11 –
Before making further uninformed remarks regarding vinyl audio quality, umbilical, I insist you read through the relevant parts of the Hydrogenaudio wiki page on Vinyl Myths.

why vinyl is better than cds? my new collection are in ?

Reply #12 –
Quote from: vpa on
Modern Vinyls are made from the same 16 bit masters than the CDs. So you have the same quality, plus worse channel seperation, plus rumble and noise.

Dont they master in >16 bit, >44.1kHz, and downconvert to CD-quality as a last step? It sounds kind of strange to do vinyl pressings using anything less than highest available precision.

Not that 16bit quantization really should matter for a medium like vinyl.

-k

why vinyl is better than cds? my new collection are in ?

Reply #13 –
I believe you are right knutinh.  Artists record at 24-bit 96Hz (or maybe even higher) and then digitally master the audio down to 16-bit 44.1KHz.  The record companies then take those same 16-bit 44.1KHz masters and press them onto vinyl discs and package that as being an extremely limited release (despite every Best Buy I walk into selling the vinyl editions).

why vinyl is better than cds? my new collection are in ?

Reply #14 –
That's not what always happens, but it is quite safe to assume that for any new vinyl release unless evidence is shown otherwise.

why vinyl is better than cds? my new collection are in ?

Reply #15 –
Quote from: umbilical on
hi, I want start again my collection of music.... I sell all my albums for college bla bla... I want start again... I want a lot !!!!!!!!!!! albums, so first I dont like mp3 or flacs... or files!!! I like have the album in my hands.

so I hear around the vinyl is better that cd, yeah?


Better is purely subjective. With that noted the answer is often yes. But it depends on who is listening and to what.

Quote from: umbilical on
why???


There are numerous reasons just as there are numerous variables. Source material, mastering, colorations specific to the gear, colorations specific to the format.

Quote from: umbilical on
If I choose vinyl, I need a expensive stuff for playing right?


There is to a large degree a price to performance relationship. One does need to spend a certain base price to get a good quality entry level vinyl playback system. And one will have to spend a great deal more to get something that would be considered by vinyl enthusiasts to be an asult on the state of the art. It's hard to plug in specific numbers but if spending money is an issue, vinyl might not be the best choice.

Quote from: umbilical on
I see that shity usb turntables... and I dont know about it but looks very bad! I see this beasts!! but I think that are very expensive http://www.axissaudio.com/turntables/turnTrans.htm price ranges??


Those are pretty high end. Not a bad place to end up but probably not where you would start. This will give you a much better idea of the range that is available and what an entry level rig will look like and cost.
http://store.acousticsounds.com/c/351/Turntables

Quote from: umbilical on
so what road take?


If sound quality matters and you can afford the entry level price tag. Take the audiophile road and persue both vinyl and CD along with SACD.

Quote from: umbilical on
I need a expensive!!! stuff for play vinyls with a really pro sound?


The entry level rigs you will find at that link I provided will give you excellent performance but with vinyl one does have to spend some serious money to get state of the art sound. many audiophiles start with entry level gear and upgrade over time.

Quote from: vpa on
Modern Vinyls are made from the same 16 bit masters than the CDs. So you have the same quality, plus worse channel seperation, plus rumble and noise.



That depends on the vinyl. Many titles are sourced from analog masters and high res digital masters.

why vinyl is better than cds? my new collection are in ?

Reply #16 –
I'm going to join-in the anti-vinyl chorus!

If you don't mind some "snap", "crackle", and "pop", vinyl may be acceptable to you.  But, the vinyl noise always annoyed me.  Plus, I was always wanting to upgrade my system and always looking for that rare "good sounding" LP. 

And, keep in mind that most music is not available on vinyl, and new vinyl is even more rare.  So, you may have to settle for some old records in less-than-perfect condition.

  this cracked me up!
Quote
...his $65,000 Wilson MAXX3 speakers...  I hear a hiss. And yes, while the record was playing, I heard a pop, a crackle or two. Isn't this as high-end an audiophile system as they come?  I'm giggling with pleasure at the frankly obscene level of detail I hear... but of course, I'm hearing the pops and crackles that a 30+ year-old record is likely to have. Shouldn't a $350,000 stereo system be completely free of such impurities?
The amazing thing is, these audiophiles actually preferred the vinyl, even with the ticks & pops!!!!  (In this case, they were comparing two different recordings...  A German record to an English CD...  But, they do generally prefer vinyl.)

    There's always the   iZotope Vinyl Simulator[/u]  (FREE!!!).

 



why vinyl is better than cds? my new collection are in ?

Reply #17 –
Quote from: analog scott on
Quote from: umbilical on
so I hear around the vinyl is better that cd, yeah?
Better is purely subjective. With that noted the answer is often yes. But it depends on who is listening and to what.
All things being equal, the answer is usually no. In every way that matters to human hearing, vinyl is measurably inferior. Don't let analog scott's weasel words mislead you.

Scott, smarten up. If I was any crankier today, you'd be getting warned for that nonsense. Sure, the way it's written, it's absolutely correct, but don't think we are unaware of your intent or your bias. It is not welcome here. We're not into the science/euphony doublethink that you are.

why vinyl is better than cds? my new collection are in ?

Reply #19 –
Well I do think it is fair to say that there can be large differences in mastering between CD and vinyl and ignoring the fact that reproduction of sound from vinyl is not anywhere near as precise as it is from CD as a delivery format in all respects other than frequency response*, these differences in mastering can lead many to prefer listening to particular titles on vinyl.

*EDIT: Yikes.  I think I better be more specific and say that vinyl can produce higher frequencies than CD Audio rather than give the possible impression that I was talking about which had a flatter response, for example.

why vinyl is better than cds? my new collection are in ?

Reply #20 –
What vinyl potentially has going for it that would audibly matter:

1) 'euphonic' distortions, specifically, those that gives the impression of more 'ambience' and dynamic range.  (That aren't on the master tape.)

2) better-sounding mastering choices

Of course, some might not find (1) euphonic, and vinyl is no *guarantee* of (2). 

To me the least disputable advantage of vinyl today would be what it has always been:

nicer packaging


Meanwhile, I still sometimes encounter online LP warriors trying to foist the idea that supra-20kHz content of LPs vs CDs makes LPs more 'detailed' etc.  And they have the super-contrasty spectrograms to prove it!:

http://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/sho...mp;postcount=47

why vinyl is better than cds? my new collection are in ?

Reply #21 –
Quote
I start loving the clear audio turntables... so pretty!!! and well around $1000 - $2000 price is a price that maybe I can pay.
That's a lot of money to spend based on "So I hear around the vinyl is better that cd..."  You should find a dealer and listen for yourself before blowing that kind of money.  (And, bring your own records for reference...  The record itself is usually the wekest link.)

Or, at least get a good quality turntable/cartridge (not audiophile quality) and some records, and live with them for awhile, before deciding that vinyl is the way to go and jumping into audiophile equipment.

And if you don't already have good speakers, consider spending that money on speakers.

I can't speak for "golden ear audiophiles", but to a "normal person", a $5000 turntable isn't going to sound any different from a $500 turntable (with the same cartridge).  And, normal person isn't likely to hear much (if any) difference between a $100 cartridge and a $2000 cartridge.  If they do hear a difference there is a 50/50 chance that they would choose the $100 cartridge in a blind test.

On the other hand, most people can hear the difference between almost any CD/CD player and any record/turntable.  And, most people will say the CD sounds better!

why vinyl is better than cds? my new collection are in ?

Reply #23 –
Umbilical wrote,
Quote
I start loving the clear audio turntables... so pretty!!!


No offense intended Greynol, but, Ya think!...

why vinyl is better than cds? my new collection are in ?

Reply #24 –
Quote from: umbilical on
hey thanks, really nice!!!! site!! http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/31917/SM...able-Turntables

I start loving the clear audio turntables... so pretty!!! and well around $1000 - $2000 price is a price that maybe I can pay.

http://www.clearaudio.de/eng/navi_lw.html what do you think about clear audio?

thanks



I think Clearaudio is an excellent company with a solid history. I also agree that they make some fine looking rigs. With that said I tend to not favor the sound from Clearaudio equipment. IMO it tends to be a bit on the lean and bright side. I prefer my vinyl with a different sonic signature. Note that I am an avid Koetsu cartridge user. If you are familiar with that product you will have a better idea of what i like.