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Topic: [USELESS] From: Some New Evidence that Generation Y May Prefer Accurat (Read 5694 times) previous topic - next topic
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[USELESS] From: Some New Evidence that Generation Y May Prefer Accurat

Quote from: analog scott on
So what do you listen to when you want to listen to music? IMO most of the good stuff is in two channel stereo.


Sean has posted detailed and substantiated arguments for that decision. You make the impression that you either are mentally unable to follow or that you are feeling a deep rejection against reasoning when talking about music reproduction.

If you are disposed like that and unwilling to accept simple, sensible rationale (and not simply authoritative statements) by one of the most respected figures of the trade, I think you won't find satisfaction in this thread.

PS The approach to separate significant from insignificant variables is what makes science so successful. I don't think that it would bring the issue any further if we would reject that for speaker evaluations and instead visit each other in our living rooms.

[USELESS] From: Some New Evidence that Generation Y May Prefer Accurat

Reply #1 –
Quote from: googlebot on
Quote from: analog scott on
So what do you listen to when you want to listen to music? IMO most of the good stuff is in two channel stereo.


Sean has posted detailed and substantiated arguments for that decision. You make the impression that you either are mentally unable to follow or that you are feeling a deep rejection against reasoning when talking about music reproduction.

If you are disposed like that and unwilling to accept simple, sensible rationale (and not simply authoritative statements) by one of the most respected figures of the trade, I think you won't find satisfaction in this thread.


Dude take a chill pill.    One doesn't have to argue for a personal aesthetic choice so such a post would be kind of silly. At any rate it isn't posted as a part of this thread. Sean just introduced his opinion of two channel stereo to the thread. I'm not sure how you figure I am required to read and memorize the body of Sean's work to have a conversation about that comment with him. Your conclusions that I would "either be mentally unable to follow or that I am feeling a deep rejection against reasoning when talking about music reproduction" is just sophmoric ad hominem. well, no it's just plain petty and idiotic rhetoric. It clearly was a fair question posed to a person who has just asserted he has reached a point where two channel stereo for him is so bad that he "personally can't stand listening to stereo loudspeaker recordings anymore except when I'm in another room preferably drinking a glass of Pinot." Seems like a problem given the body of recorded music in two channel stereo. I simply asked him what he does when he wants to listen to music since most of it is two channel stereo. Maybe he does just leave the room and drink wine every time.

OTOH maybe if he had a pair of electrostatic speakers in a dedicated well treated listening room and learned to live with the sweet spot he would be able to better enjoy 2 channel stereo playback. 
 

[USELESS] From: Some New Evidence that Generation Y May Prefer Accurat

Reply #2 –
Quote from: analog scott on
Sean just introduced his opinion of two channel stereo to the thread.


He introduced an argumentation, not an opinion. So a good way of following up would picking up the elements that you consider flawed. A bad way is calling the argument as a whole an opinion and posting yours beside.

[USELESS] From: Some New Evidence that Generation Y May Prefer Accurat

Reply #3 –
Quote from: googlebot on
Quote from: analog scott on
Sean just introduced his opinion of two channel stereo to the thread.


He introduced an argumentation, not an opinion. So a good way of following up would picking up the elements that you consider flawed. A bad way is calling the argument as a whole an opinion and posting yours beside.





" I personally can't stand listening to stereo loudspeaker recordings anymore except when I'm in another room preferably drinking a glass of Pinot."
Looks a whole lot like a comment that reflects a personal opinion to me. I don't see any "argumentation" present in that comment. Do you? Really? And, again, the *question* I asked in response is a fair one given the body of recorded music is mostly two channel recordings designed to be listened to with a stereo pair of loudspeakers. And.... it_was_a_question. There was no "argument" form me nor any assertion of an "alternative opinion."

[USELESS] From: Some New Evidence that Generation Y May Prefer Accurat

Reply #4 –
Quote from: analog scott on
I have a hunch Formula One cars don't come with any manual.


I've worked as an engineer in a shop that built Indy cars, and if they at all like F1 cars, F1 cars come with a ton of manuals. They are mostly at the component level. The primary manual for the overall vehicle is the technical rulebook for the formula. These are all quite detailed.

[USELESS] From: Some New Evidence that Generation Y May Prefer Accurat

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
Quote from: analog scott on
I have a hunch Formula One cars don't come with any manual.


I've worked as an engineer in a shop that built Indy cars, and if they at all like F1 cars, F1 cars come with a ton of manuals. They are mostly at the component level. The primary manual for the overall vehicle is the technical rulebook for the formula. These are all quite detailed.



It was meant to be a slightly humorous remark to contrast a typical commerical car with a typical owner's manual.

[USELESS] From: Some New Evidence that Generation Y May Prefer Accurat

Reply #6 –
Quote from: analog scott on
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
Quote from: analog scott on
I have a hunch Formula One cars don't come with any manual.


I've worked as an engineer in a shop that built Indy cars, and if they at all like F1 cars, F1 cars come with a ton of manuals. They are mostly at the component level. The primary manual for the overall vehicle is the technical rulebook for the formula. These are all quite detailed.



It was meant to be a slightly humorous remark to contrast a typical commerical car with a typical owner's manual.


One of the keystones of good humor is an obvious connection to the truth. Whether the truth is distorted or even negated doesn't matter so much. The core of good humor is  a recognizable connection to true facts.

In this case a demeaning if not libelous factoid was invented by a person with apparently zero knowlege of the art and technology that he referenced,  for the apparent purpose of winning an argument.

[USELESS] From: Some New Evidence that Generation Y May Prefer Accurat

Reply #7 –
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
Quote from: analog scott on
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
Quote from: analog scott on
I have a hunch Formula One cars don't come with any manual.


I've worked as an engineer in a shop that built Indy cars, and if they at all like F1 cars, F1 cars come with a ton of manuals. They are mostly at the component level. The primary manual for the overall vehicle is the technical rulebook for the formula. These are all quite detailed.



It was meant to be a slightly humorous remark to contrast a typical commerical car with a typical owner's manual.


One of the keystones of good humor is an obvious connection to the truth. Whether the truth is distorted or even negated doesn't matter so much. The core of good humor is  a recognizable connection to true facts.

In this case a demeaning if not libelous factoid was invented by a person with apparently zero knowlege of the art and technology that he referenced,  for the apparent purpose of winning an argument.



Thank you so much for that lesson in humor Arny! I will be sure to pass it on to some of my friends who dabble in comedy. Frank Caliendo, David Allen Grear, Keegan Michael Key, Orlando Jones, Deborah Wilson, Stephny Weir, Nicole Parker, John C. Reiley etc etc.. All this time I thought I was learning from actual experts.    can't have comedians inventing "demeaning if not libelous factoids" like formula one racing cars coming without an owners manual. the horror...

[USELESS] From: Some New Evidence that Generation Y May Prefer Accurat

Reply #8 –
I have slightly crossed the line in post 61 in anticipation of a good thread becoming drowned by lengthy personal opinion and word play. Looks like I am co-responsible for the opposite of what I had intended. I wouldn't mind seeing mine and the following posts getting binned.

[USELESS] From: Some New Evidence that Generation Y May Prefer Accurat

Reply #9 –
Note to self: read more carefully, especially before .

[USELESS] From: Some New Evidence that Generation Y May Prefer Accurat

Reply #10 –
Quote from: analog scott on
Thank you so much for that lesson in humor Arny! I will be sure to pass it on to some of my friends who dabble in comedy. Frank Caliendo, David Allen Grear, Keegan Michael Key, Orlando Jones, Deborah Wilson, Stephny Weir, Nicole Parker, John C. Reiley etc etc.. All this time I thought I was learning from actual experts.    can't have comedians inventing "demeaning if not libelous factoids" like formula one racing cars coming without an owners manual. the horror...


Following your logic Scott, I can conclude that since I have a goodly number of female friends who can and have conceived and delivered babies, so can I! Easily one of your more self-revealatory posts! Did you arrive at your current state of audio expertise by similar means?

;-)

[USELESS] From: Some New Evidence that Generation Y May Prefer Accurat

Reply #11 –
Quote from: solive on
Can't wait for the teenage years


Many teens desire an iphone (or some other smart phone) so perhaps your kids will fight you for an iphone 10G

It not that, perhaps a Macbook.  Traveling to a electronics store in the USA is quite comical for me as I get to witness all sorts of arguments/excuses between kids and parents about why the kid NEEDS a Macbook.  Once a girl stubbornly insisted she only wanted a white laptop and that's why she needed a Macbook.

What I find incredibly interesting is the iphone has become a top desired item for almost all age groups all over the world.  When I was a kid there were some pretty solid differences over what adults and kids lusted after.  More importantly, many items were localized within countries or cultures.  In one part of the world a person might crave a computer (with 64kb of RAM!), in another a Lacoste shirt, and in India an idol (of a god) made of silver or gold.

Nowadays everybody wants an iphone.  Age, culture, or even how realistic it is to purchase such a phone, doesn't matter.  Cellular phones have united all ages and cultures - unless you are 70+ years old.  Then you have and can afford the latest cell phone but you don't know how to use it

I think all of this is slightly off topic...

Quote from: dhromed on
Have you tried playing their music on your system?


Believe me, you could take a popular artist (e.g. Justin Bieber), add 50% distortion, drive every other note to clipping, and kids would not notice all that on even the most transparent system on earth.  That's pretty much what many of us with our 90% THD earbuds listening to copies of copies of copies of pirated audio tapes.

[USELESS] From: Some New Evidence that Generation Y May Prefer Accurat

Reply #12 –
Quote from: odigg on
Believe me, you could take a popular artist (e.g. Justin Bieber), add 50% distortion, drive every other note to clipping, and kids would not notice all that on even the most transparent system on earth.  That's pretty much what many of us with our 90% THD earbuds listening to copies of copies of copies of pirated audio tapes.

I think you need to go back and reread the beginning of this thread. Or maybe just the title.

[USELESS] From: Some New Evidence that Generation Y May Prefer Accurat

Reply #13 –
Quote from: Notat on
Quote from: odigg on
Believe me, you could take a popular artist (e.g. Justin Bieber), add 50% distortion, drive every other note to clipping, and kids would not notice all that on even the most transparent system on earth.  That's pretty much what many of us with our 90% THD earbuds listening to copies of copies of copies of pirated audio tapes.

I think you need to go back and reread the beginning of this thread. Or maybe just the title.


Don't worry, I wasn't posting an attack on Dr. Olive's study or making the claim that kids/teens are not able to identify a high quality reproduction from a poor one.  I was making the point that back when I (and many others) was a kid I could listen to the most god-awful recordings (and music) and still really enjoy myself.  Unless the recording was absolutely terrible (e.g. a recording of bad radio reception) I never thought all that much about the lack of quality in the technical sense.

Kids still do this.  Kids dance to music playing from the speakers of cell phones, PMPs, and the half-cooked gymnasium audio system that distorts like mad and fails to reproduce the entire frequency range with any sort of transparency.

Plenty of adults do this too, but some of us start acting like music is totally destroyed by something as simple as a 4db bass rolloff or when we change a power cable.

[USELESS] From: Some New Evidence that Generation Y May Prefer Accurat

Reply #14 –
Quote from: solive on
Can't wait for the teenage years


Don't worry - by the time they are teenagers their requests for the latest technological gadget will pale in comparison to all the other trouble they can get into.  If an iphone 10G (with direct neural interface)  will bribe them into not torturing their teachers and getting expelled from school, you'll be inclined to acquiesce