Hydrogenaudio Forums

Lossless Audio Compression => FLAC => Topic started by: 2tec on 2017-06-07 00:32:32

Title: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: 2tec on 2017-06-07 00:32:32
Quote
iOS 11 lets you play FLAC audio files straight from your iPad and iPhone
~ https://thenextweb.com/apple/2017/06/06/ios-11-flac (https://thenextweb.com/apple/2017/06/06/ios-11-flac-audio-iphone-ipad/#.tnw_i7MerZfJ) :)
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: Chibisteven on 2017-06-07 02:53:20
Quote
iOS 11 lets you play FLAC audio files straight from your iPad and iPhone
~ https://thenextweb.com/apple/2017/06/06/ios-11-flac (https://thenextweb.com/apple/2017/06/06/ios-11-flac-audio-iphone-ipad/#.tnw_i7MerZfJ) :)

This is ages so late it's laughable.  Guess they've thrown in the towel on their own lossless format (which is a good thing anyway).

Just wait for the iCrowd to think it's greatest innovation yet to come from Apple...   ::)
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: Wombat on 2017-06-07 03:02:17
Maybe they had to now that flac'd MQA takes over the world.
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: Porcus on 2017-06-07 09:50:45
This is ages so late it's laughable.  Guess they've thrown in the towel on their own lossless format (which is a good thing anyway).

*googling* it is only two years and a half after Microsoft announced FLAC support in Windows 10.

It still seems to me that ALAC has a little bit of dying left to do until it can finally claim to have taken the "new WMAL" title ;-)
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: JunkieXL on 2017-06-07 17:38:25
Until they add FLAC support in iTunes or in iPods...  I could really care less.  Far too behind the times..
JXL
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: apastuszak on 2017-06-09 12:54:17
Well, if iOS 11 is going to support FLAC natively, I think that iPods and iTunes will support it.  I wonder if Apple is planning to roll out a "high res" music sales offering and this is prep work for it.  Vorbis comments could easily handle all that personally identifiable metadata that Apple embeds in their purchases.
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: Porcus on 2017-06-09 13:40:55
Vorbis comments could easily handle all that personally identifiable metadata that Apple embeds in their purchases.
There are many applications that would display (and thus make it easy to delete) those tags. Bot not even Apple will put in there some COMMENT ITUNES longandstupidstringwithallyourpersonaldetailsencrypted which includes so vital information (e.g., EQ or MQA flags or ...) that you lose fidelity if you delete it? And use that as an excuse to ban tagging applications from App Store?
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: apastuszak on 2017-06-09 14:04:08
Vorbis comments could easily handle all that personally identifiable metadata that Apple embeds in their purchases.
There are many applications that would display (and thus make it easy to delete) those tags. Bot not even Apple will put in there some COMMENT ITUNES longandstupidstringwithallyourpersonaldetailsencrypted which includes so vital information (e.g., EQ or MQA flags or ...) that you lose fidelity if you delete it? And use that as an excuse to ban tagging applications from App Store?

I don't see Apple every going down the MQA path.  They'll roll their own technology before they license MQA.

I know utilities that will happily scrub your iTunes purchases of all identifying information.  All the extra stuff now is just stores in MP4 ATOMS.
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: Wombat on 2017-06-09 16:06:04
I don't see Apple every going down the MQA path.  They'll roll their own technology before they license MQA.
Maybe it is more about playing high bitrate releases at all in the near future. Imagine some labels discontinue the typical high bitrate formats and only offer MQA.
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: apastuszak on 2017-06-09 16:55:19
I don't see Apple every going down the MQA path.  They'll roll their own technology before they license MQA.
Maybe it is more about playing high bitrate releases at all in the near future. Imagine some labels discontinue the typical high bitrate formats and only offer MQA.

If they're planning to offer high bitrate in MQA only format, more power to them.  Would you like more snake oil with the snake oil I served you?  :-)

As long as I can continue to buy 16/44.1 losless files, I'm good.  I mostly buy CDs these days and rip them.

With all the loudness wars crap going on, I'm waiting for labels to start offering an "original masters" series and start releasing songs from the 60s through the 90s in their original higher dynamic range masters.

It's all about repackaging the music they already have so you can buy it from them again.
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: Wombat on 2017-06-09 17:13:42
With all the loudness wars crap going on, I'm waiting for labels to start offering an "original masters" series and start releasing songs from the 60s through the 90s in their original higher dynamic range masters.

It's all about repackaging the music they already have so you can buy it from them again.

Before that happens i bet you will get authenticated 16/44.1 MQA.
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: apastuszak on 2017-06-09 17:14:53
Before that happens i bet you will get authenticated 16/44.1 MQA.

Good reason to keep buying CDs.
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: Porcus on 2017-06-09 23:52:30
Collecting bits:

- Yep, there are utilities that will clean away iTunes' MP4 atoms, but you need to know about them (up til the fb2k Tag Sanitizer I hardly knew any that was not a major hassle). Now it will be in plain sight for more or less any tagger.

-  MQA works just as well (or just as bad) with ALAC as with FLAC, so that shouldn't be the issue. Unless the snakeoil industry has decided to demand FLAC ... for whatever reason. There are a couple of good reasons to choose FLAC over ALAC generally, but I can only see one reason that the industry could consider crucial, and that is that people cannot tell AAC in .m4a from ALAC in .m4a, and you would not want your customers to perceive MQA as lossy, would you? ;)

- Selling you full-DR mixes? Un-re-masters? 23 "Full dynamic range edition" hits here: https://earache.bandcamp.com/music . Most are actually the original CD master, however there is at least one exception where the original US/European CD was cramped as well (http://www.metal-fi.com/modern-heartwork/).
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: apastuszak on 2017-06-10 02:20:48
I'm waiting for record labels to catch on to DR values and start making high DR releases with an actual sticker on the digipack/jewelcase that says "DR 15!!"

Of course they'll cost twice as much as the regular releases and be labeled "audiophile."

Kind of like Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs or Audio Fidelity, except released directly by the record labels.

I think the only appeal for FLAC is that the format has appeal in audiophile circles.  There are lots of placebophiles that are clueless about  different lossless formats.  All they know is that FLAC is best and the difference between FLAC and MP3 is "so obvious."  You could sell a 24/192 wavpack file and they'll argue that it can't be as good as FLAC.

Hell there are audiophiles that swear up and down that they can hear a difference between a FLAC and a WAV file.

I would love it if my iPhone could play every imaginable format: FLAC Wavpack, Ogg Vorbis, AAC, MP3, ALAC, WAV, Opus.  Make the iPhone/iPod the universal music player.
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: Porcus on 2017-06-10 12:08:57
I think the only appeal for FLAC is that the format has appeal in audiophile circles.  There are lots of placebophiles that are clueless about  different lossless formats.  All they know is that FLAC is best and the difference between FLAC and MP3 is "so obvious."  You could sell a 24/192 wavpack file and they'll argue that it can't be as good as FLAC.

Hell there are audiophiles that swear up and down that they can hear a difference between a FLAC and a WAV file.

And then they "prefer" WAV ... or AIFF! https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,113970.0.html

So I guess Apple supports FLAC in order to enable people to play their purchases, and then this is likely a sign that Apple has decided there will be no ALAC download sales in iTunes.
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: apastuszak on 2017-06-10 14:13:16
A lot of Apple's sales practices in music are dictated by the record labels, who have tried for years to break Apple grip on digital music.  The record labels HATED Apple's US$0.99 price per track.  They wanted to charge more for new releases and hit singles.

When DRM stated to melt away, Apple was the LAST of the digital music sales companies to remove it, because the record labels wouldn't let them.  What is interesting is that Apple is the only online music sales company that managed to remove DRM without customers losing their music.  When MSN Music and Walmart switched to MP3, customers lost all access to their music when the WMA DRM servers were taken offline by those companies.  Apple. instead offered an "upgrade" to DRM free music for a small fee per track.  As part of the upgrade, you went from 128k AAC to 256K AAC.  Brilliant marketing strategy on their part.  Lets you keep your music, and the upgrade to 256K AAC makes you feel like you're getting something for your money.

As for ALAC, I'm sure Apple developed it in the hopes of selling lossless music, and the record labels simply never gave them permission to sell lossless files.  I believe ALAC supports Apple's FairPlay DRM.

I think in 2017 formats matter, at least to the consumer.  FLAC is perceived as "high quality," and Apple may have trouble selling flies in losless format if they just call them lossless of ALAC.
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: Maurits on 2017-06-10 14:39:59
Apple appears to have given up on ALAC years ago. They published the documentation some time ago so the community could implement their own versions but I don't see Apple push it any more.

Don't forget, ALAC was originally created because in those days (some fifteen years ago) there were some fears around submarine patents around FLAC*. The theory was that the holders of those patents were waiting for a company with deep pockets to implement FLAC so they could then approach them for royalties. Considering various big companies have started to use FLAC without getting sued we can safely say that those fears turn out to be unfounded.

Knowing this, I see no reason why Apple would not make FLAC a first class citizen on its platforms now.

* If you search back far enough here on HA there is a post from Josh Coalson where he says that Apple approached him to use FLAC on OS X but that Josh was not prepared to sign their customary NDA. Apple came out with ALAC some time later.
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: apastuszak on 2017-06-10 18:21:30
Well, certain entities like MPEG-LA are always looking for ways to squeeze people for money.  When Google release VP-8 and claimed it did not infringe on MPEG patents, MPEG-LA immediately created a license to cover people that wanted to use VP-8 just in case something came up when MPEG-LA reviewed the code.

Same thing is going on with Xiph's daala video codec.  To avoid patents, Xiph basically started from scratch, rather than build on previous video codecs, and it looks like they may have come up with something better h.264 or even h.265.  Of course MPEG-LA is all over it now.  They're watching daala like a hawk, making sure that something isn't infringed upon.

That's kind of what scares me about Opus.  Xiph fully admits that Opus is patent encumbered.  And they say they got the patent holders to give royalty free licenses.  Unless those licenses are  granted in perpituity, I'd be a little worried.
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: Octocontrabass on 2017-06-10 19:50:38
Unless those licenses are  granted in perpituity, I'd be a little worried.
The licenses are granted in perpetuity. You don't have to take my word for it; you can read them yourself (http://opus-codec.org/license/) if you'd like.
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: apastuszak on 2017-06-10 23:52:03
Now if only Opus could catch on.  Especially over things like A2DP where latency is an issue.  It seems most phones (and MacOS) are able to compensate for the latency introduced by using AAC and MP3 over A2DP.  Windows however, fails miserably, which is why a lot of people choose AptX on Windows.

But back on topic I wonder how long before we see "hi-res" releases on iTunes in FLAC format.

I read a clueless article a couple of months ago that the iPhone 7 dropped the headphone jack in order to support "hi-res" music, because a headphones jack can't handle "hi-res."

Ignoring completely that the human ear can't support hi-res, at some point this wonderful high-resolution music needs at some point to be converted to analog in order for the human ear to pick it up.  It's either going to happen at a headphone jack or a speaker wire.

I'm sure there is a future where audiophile will surgically implant multibit DACs directly into their cerebral cortex.  But we're not there yet.
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: Porcus on 2017-06-11 15:14:44
I read a clueless article a couple of months ago that the iPhone 7 dropped the headphone jack in order to support "hi-res" music, because a headphones jack can't handle "hi-res."

As if there are not already enough iDiots to defend on the wrong grounds whatever Apple may tell them (sometimes on the right grounds even, coincidence could work that way) - now you can combine that effect with audiophoolia.
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: apastuszak on 2017-06-11 16:04:10
I read a clueless article a couple of months ago that the iPhone 7 dropped the headphone jack in order to support "hi-res" music, because a headphones jack can't handle "hi-res."

As if there are not already enough iDiots to defend on the wrong grounds whatever Apple may tell them (sometimes on the right grounds even, coincidence could work that way) - now you can combine that effect with audiophoolia.

Apple has plenty of reason for why they got rid of the headphone jack.  It let them have a bigger battery.  It let them add a stereo speaker, it let the phone become water resistant.

I find the presence of a headphone jack far more important than any of those things, so my 6S will probably be my last iPhone.

Kind of short sighted of Apple to not have put analog passthrough into the Lightning connector.  Forces the use of an external DAC.  The USB-C port that other phone makers chose allows analog passthrough, so no external DAC is needed.

I'm feeling Apple painted themselves into a corner here....
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: Funkstar De Luxe on 2017-06-11 17:42:17
Until they add FLAC support in iTunes or in iPods...  I could really care less.  Far too behind the times..
JXL

That's "couldn't care less".

Also, what's whit all the Apple hate? There's a reason we can all buy music for 99p now, and support flac is surely a good thing? I don't understand the bizarre hatred over the brand of PC/music player I buy...
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: Porcus on 2017-06-11 17:56:49
Apple has plenty of reason for why they got rid of the headphone jack.  It let them have a bigger battery.  It let them add a stereo speaker, it let the phone become water resistant.

Sure, the splash resistance is an argument ... I am not so sure about the two percent extra footprint though.
But the 'net was full of hoorays over Apple getting rid of that internal DAC. No wonder you can sell snakeoil when that is the level of knowledge.
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: apastuszak on 2017-06-11 18:16:20
Apple has plenty of reason for why they got rid of the headphone jack.  It let them have a bigger battery.  It let them add a stereo speaker, it let the phone become water resistant.

Sure, the splash resistance is an argument ... I am not so sure about the two percent extra footprint though.
But the 'net was full of hoorays over Apple getting rid of that internal DAC. No wonder you can sell snakeoil when that is the level of knowledge.

The internal DAC is still there.   You need it for the speaker.  There's just no interface between the internal DAC and the Lightning port. That little Apple dongle has a DAC in it.
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: saratoga on 2017-06-11 19:20:57
Now if only Opus could catch on.

Seems inevitable now that Windows and Android have added support for it as a web technology.  The only major platform that doesn't support it is iOS, and that is probably only until Apple gets around to adding hardware decode support to its chips. 
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: VEG on 2017-06-11 21:19:52
saratoga, Microsoft Edge doesn't support Opus files in the <audio> tag. Opus support was added just for the WebRTC, so it is useless for all other cases.
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: apastuszak on 2017-06-12 02:15:14
saratoga, Microsoft Edge doesn't support Opus files in the <audio> tag. Opus support was added just for the WebRTC, so it is useless for all other cases.

It took till Windows 10 for Microsoft to add native FLAC support to Windows.  Opus will probably get there in one of the WIndows 10 updates eventually.  I'm still waiting for Opus to add full ReplayGain support before I use it.
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: Miramis on 2017-06-12 06:45:46
saratoga, Microsoft Edge doesn't support Opus files in the <audio> tag. Opus support was added just for the WebRTC, so it is useless for all other cases.
No, not only for WebRTC. Edge supports Opus (and VP9) on websites using Media Source Extensions, e.g. YouTube. VP8 in Edge is for WebRTC only, though.
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: LithosZA on 2017-06-12 10:38:07
Yes, Opus is supported in Edge only in the WebM container and by using the MediaSource API. I see on their Platform Status page that 'OGG Container' is 'Under Consideration' and 'Low Priority'.
I haven't tried to see you would be able to playback a WebM/WebA file with only one audio track and no video track.
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: KozmoNaut on 2017-06-12 12:02:49
- Selling you full-DR mixes? Un-re-masters? 23 "Full dynamic range edition" hits here: https://earache.bandcamp.com/music . Most are actually the original CD master, however there is at least one exception where the original US/European CD was cramped as well (http://www.metal-fi.com/modern-heartwork/).

I don't know if it's the FDR version of Heartwork on Spotify, as I don't have an original CD to compare with. But I have to say, it sounds damn good.

I have to really commend Earache for releasing death metal albums with genuine dynamic range. I wish other labels would follow suit.
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: Rollin on 2017-06-12 14:29:55
iPhone 7 dropped the headphone jack
Why so much panic about this? Quality of Lightning Audio Adapter is very good - http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/amp/apple-lightning-audio-adapter-a1749.php (http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/amp/apple-lightning-audio-adapter-a1749.php)
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: Porcus on 2017-06-12 15:33:50
apastuszak:
Yeah, that's my point precisely. People don't even understand that the zeroes and ones have to be DAC'ed in order to be human-audible. No wonder that snake oil sells ...

KozmoNaut:
There are three versions of Heartwork on Spotify. In the Full Dynamic Range, "Buried Dreams" is 4:00 and not 3:59.
(I actually don't think the remastered version of Heartwork is that bad. The cymbals are not destroyed. Then OTOH I have listened to Death Magnetic during the last hour. )
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: apastuszak on 2017-06-12 18:51:02
iPhone 7 dropped the headphone jack
Why so much panic about this? Quality of Lightning Audio Adapter is very good - http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/amp/apple-lightning-audio-adapter-a1749.php (http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/amp/apple-lightning-audio-adapter-a1749.php)

The real complaint is having to use an adapter at all.  If you forget your adapter, then you're not listening to music.  I know people that have bought a half dozen of these things and leave them lying around all over place.

One Mac podcast I listen to, a gentleman went to Europe and forgot his dongle.  Long plane ride with no headphones.  When he got back to the US, he traded his phone in for a 6S.

Other than some placebophiles, I don't hear anyone complaining about sound quality of the dongle.  It's more the fact that you need to use a dongle at all.

I have an iPhone 6S.  As an experiment I bought the dongle and tried to use it for 2 weeks straight and pretended I didn't have a headphone jack.  The fact that I couldn't charge and listen to music at the same time was pretty annoying.  But even more annoying was when I lost the dongle and couldn't listen to music at all.

It would be nice if someone made a "dongle" with a 1.2m cable built into the end.  Or if Apple sold a 10 pack of these.  Or even better if they switched to USB C, which allows analog audio pass-through and sold dongles for 99 cents.
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: apastuszak on 2017-06-12 19:07:49
apastuszak:
Yeah, that's my point precisely. People don't even understand that the zeroes and ones have to be DAC'ed in order to be human-audible. No wonder that snake oil sells ...

I just heard the best placebophile quote today "Even if two pieces of audio equipment measure exactly the same, they can still sound completely different."  It's statements like this that makes snake oil sell.  Placebophiles are so obsessed with their gear, they don't even care about the music.  They talk about how some amp makes an album they have sound more spatial and airy, and look at you cross eyed when you tell them that the album has an album gain value of  -12, and is going to sound like brickwalled crap no matter how much money you throw at your gear.

There are a lot of placephiles that are thrilled that the iPhone "no DAC," because now they can get their own.  When I point out it still has a DAC, you just have no way to access it any more with your headphones, they get all sorts of confused.

It seems the laws of physics and basic electronics escape the average placebophile.
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: Porcus on 2017-06-12 22:57:44
I just heard the best placebophile quote today "Even if two pieces of audio equipment measure exactly the same, they can still sound completely different." 
Actually, I don't think that is close to the best/worst. Whether we can "measure" well enough with a microphone in a room is a matter of the current state of the art of measurement gear. But when it gets as specific as the topic of this thread -  lossless codecs where we can "measure" that zero bits differ - then we are really talking. You know, digital audio is allegedly forever corrupted by encoding to FLAC even if it decodes to bit-identical to the PCM. (If only those people knew that .WAV is actually a container format.)
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: apastuszak on 2017-06-13 02:28:15
I read the linked thread where the merits of WAV vs AIFF was discussed, with a general conclusion that WAV was slightly more airy and open than AIFF is.

Placebophiles are just unbelievable sometimes.

When it comes to this thread, I now wonder if Apple is going to sell lossless music in CD quality, or if they're going to go straight to "hi-res."
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: Nichttaub on 2017-06-13 07:26:41
It would be nice if someone made a "dongle" with a 1.2m cable built into the end.  Or if Apple sold a 10 pack of these.  Or even better if they switched to USB C, which allows analog audio pass-through and sold dongles for 99 cents.

There are dongles for under $10 which have a headphone jack and a power port; I bought one for my 6S in order to make sure it worked (eventually I'll own a 7); and sure enough it does.  If I had a 7 and cared about a headphone jack  I'd just leave it attached.  I don't really need one; I use Bluetooth in the car as it integrates with my stereo to allow hands-free calling as well as streaming.  If I really need portable music, my phone doesn't have enough memory for a usable portion of my library anyway; that's what my FiiO or iPod are for, and they're much less hassle to use.

Incidentally, expect all Apple gear to migrate to USB-C eventually.  My MBP has it, and it seems to work with everything from external hard drives to USB thumb drives to video adapters.  Since it's bidirectional, even my VGA video adapter's extra -C port can be used to supply power to an external device or to plug in the AC adapter.
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: Chibisteven on 2017-06-13 11:13:01
If Apple does start selling FLAC it'll likely be the beginning of the true end of the audio CD format.  They will be little point in picking up CDs unless it's a very rare album or some kind of collectable and has no online store re-release or the CD master is better than the re-released iTunes version that's available.  It's not even the matter of if they go high res or just stick to sensible sample rates and bit depths, it's the matter that once they do so at all that kills the format.
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: apastuszak on 2017-06-13 13:17:04
It would be nice if someone made a "dongle" with a 1.2m cable built into the end.  Or if Apple sold a 10 pack of these.  Or even better if they switched to USB C, which allows analog audio pass-through and sold dongles for 99 cents.

There are dongles for under $10 which have a headphone jack and a power port; I bought one for my 6S in order to make sure it worked (eventually I'll own a 7); and sure enough it does.  If I had a 7 and cared about a headphone jack  I'd just leave it attached.  I don't really need one; I use Bluetooth in the car as it integrates with my stereo to allow hands-free calling as well as streaming.  If I really need portable music, my phone doesn't have enough memory for a usable portion of my library anyway; that's what my FiiO or iPod are for, and they're much less hassle to use.

Incidentally, expect all Apple gear to migrate to USB-C eventually.  My MBP has it, and it seems to work with everything from external hard drives to USB thumb drives to video adapters.  Since it's bidirectional, even my VGA video adapter's extra -C port can be used to supply power to an external device or to plug in the AC adapter.


I solved this problem by streaming music out of my house.  Now it doesn't matter how much space my phone has.

I need to look for these dongles.  The $10 on Amazon all get horrible reviews.  I got another year on my iPhone 6S.  We'll see where Apple takes this in another year.
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: apastuszak on 2017-06-13 13:22:44
If Apple does start selling FLAC it'll likely be the beginning of the true end of the audio CD format.  They will be little point in picking up CDs unless it's a very rare album or some kind of collectable and has no online store re-release or the CD master is better than the re-released iTunes version that's available.  It's not even the matter of if they go high res or just stick to sensible sample rates and bit depths, it's the matter that once they do so at all that kills the format.

You have been able to buy legal FLACs from places like 7digital for a while now and the CD is still around.  The big plus for a CD is no watermarks.  I reached out to 7digital and they confirmed all their tracks contain a digital watermark that is not personally identifiable, but does identify the track as being downloaded from 7digital.  They claim the watermark is not audible, and since it's in the music itself, it hangs around between format conversion.

iTunes selling FLACs does solve a problem for me, though (or even ALAC).  I like FLAC simply because I consider it archival.  And there are often "iTunes exclusive" tracks on some albums.  There are times I have bought the CD and then went back and bought the iTunes version to get the 1-2 bonus tracks (usually at some point when the album is discounted.)  If I could just buy the whole thing in FLAC or ALAC on iTunes, that would be make life easier and cheaper.
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: Brand on 2017-09-13 15:31:56
iPhone 8 and iPhone X have FLAC playback in the specs:
https://www.apple.com/iphone-8/specs (https://www.apple.com/iphone-8/specs)
https://www.apple.com/iphone-x/specs (https://www.apple.com/iphone-x/specs)


EDIT: I tried installing the last iTunes (12.7.0.166), but it didn't recognize my FLAC files.
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: apastuszak on 2017-09-13 16:00:32
It's a shame they didn't add support for Opus and Ogg Vorbis.  That, to me, is more important than FLAC support.
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: o-l-a-v on 2017-09-13 16:22:50
It's a shame they didn't add support for Opus and Ogg Vorbis.  That, to me, is more important than FLAC support.
According to xda-developers, IOS11 adds some Opus support:
https://www.xda-developers.com/ios-11-android-support-opus-audio-codec-mp3-successor/

Edit: More info
https://hetzel.net/2017-06-12/ios-11-opus-support-in-podcast-feeds/
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: lithopsian on 2017-09-13 17:10:05
Opus only in CAF containers?
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: eahm on 2017-09-13 21:26:14
How do I put Opus in a CAF container with foobar2000?
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: burkjavier on 2017-09-14 00:09:06
Agreed on the FLAC iTunes support, would be nice to be able to not have to worry about re-transcoding anything just to use that app and my lossless files.
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: Maurits on 2017-09-14 16:02:08
Agreed on the FLAC iTunes support, would be nice to be able to not have to worry about re-transcoding anything just to use that app and my lossless files.
Considering the new Apple TV presented two days ago now lists FLAC as the supported formats I wouldn't at all be surprised if iTunes adds FLAC support shortly.

Quote
HE-AAC (V1), AAC (up to 320 Kbps), protected AAC (from iTunes Store), MP3 (up to 320 Kbps), MP3 VBR, Apple Lossless, FLAC, AIFF and WAV; AC‑3 (Dolby Digital 5.1) and E‑AC‑3 (Dolby Digital Plus 7.1 surround sound)
https://www.apple.com/uk/apple-tv-4k/specs/
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: probedb on 2017-09-14 21:34:46
EDIT: I tried installing the last iTunes (12.7.0.166), but it didn't recognize my FLAC files.

I suppose the phones aren't actually available yet so I assume it'll come in a release before then?
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: kode54 on 2017-09-14 23:26:08
iTunes 12.7 doesn't support FLAC files, but QuickTime on High Sierra does, as does the Finder play preview feature. It even supports embedded album artwork for the icons.
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: Chibisteven on 2017-09-15 00:54:09
FLAC is the defacto standard for lossless audio now!  At least it's something that's actually patent and royalty free that anyone can use for a change.
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: Maurits on 2017-09-15 15:59:00
The QuickTime framework tends to actually provide the audio codecs that players such as Finder and iTunes use. Since the QuickTime version that adds FLAC comes with iOS11 and MacOS High Sierra there is no point in testing whether players support it unless you have already upgraded to iOS11 or High Sierra.

It might even be that the same iTunes that doesn't support it on my version of Sierra will support it if it's run under High Sierra. To be 100% sure we'lll have to give it a bit more time until both are released later this month.
Title: Re: Apple IOS 11 to support FLAC
Post by: eric.w on 2017-09-25 22:20:26
I just updated, and found macOS High Sierra now plays FLAC in Finder. (The Quick Look feature, where you press "Space" with a file selected.)

iTunes 12.7.0.166 doesn't accept FLAC files dragged-and-dropped on it, though.
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