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Topic: MP3 (Lame) vs ogg Vorbis (AoTuV) (Read 6329 times) previous topic - next topic
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MP3 (Lame) vs ogg Vorbis (AoTuV)

I'm using a Meizu M6 TS and atm Brainwavz Beta (soon replaced with Brainwavz M2). I prefer FLAC over high-rate CBR mp3, but the filesize is just too large for portable music enjoying. I've always been somewhat attracted to ogg Vorbis, and lately I listened to a Wikipedia audio file that sounded amazing. But there are hardly any websites/ etc. that offer ogg Vorbis downloads any longer. Why is that? Has Lame quality surpassed Vorbis? If yes, are there specific bitrates for which Vorbis is better? I'd like to have a rate < 220 kb/s. Which one is better for this, mp3 or ogg? And are there better encoders than the latest Lame/AoTuV?

MP3 (Lame) vs ogg Vorbis (AoTuV)

Reply #1 –
Quote from: Kadano on
But there are hardly any websites/ etc. that offer ogg Vorbis downloads any longer. Why is that?


Maybe because sites tend to support mp3 and aac which has the widest portable device support and that the great unwashed is familiar with. Hopefully Vorbis will become more popular when the codec is installed by default on more computers and have more portable hardware support. This is due to google's new video format- WebM (it uses vp8 video and Vorbis audio in a modified mkv container):

http://www.webmproject.org/

Quote from: Kadano on
Has Lame quality surpassed Vorbis? If yes, are there specific bitrates for which Vorbis is better?


No. At high enough bitrate, they should all be transparent (for non-problematic samples). However, mp3 can't beat Vorbis and aac at lower bitrates. Personally, for portable use, I use AoTuV at -q4.

Quote from: Kadano on
I'd like to have a rate < 220 kb/s. Which one is better for this, mp3 or ogg? And are there better encoders than the latest Lame/AoTuV?


They should do equally well at this bitrate (220) even if Vorbis might be slightly better. The choice is entirely up to you depending on your needs. If you want something that can be played everywhere, go with mp3. If you are only going to play it on devices that support Vorbis then AoTuV is a good choice.

MP3 (Lame) vs ogg Vorbis (AoTuV)

Reply #2 –
I wouldn't hold my breath for more Ogg Vorbis support.  It has existed for a while, been used in multiple programs (even PC games from Microsoft, such as Age Of Empires II, used Ogg Vorbis audio files), etc. and support still hasn't grown beyond a niche group.  I doubt Google will change anything as PC support will only increase whenever portable hardware support also grows.  Quite frankly, the iPod (for better or worse) is the majority market holder for portable audio player sales.  Every other manufacturer (including Microsoft) would have to team up and add Ogg Vorbis support to their players.  Even then they are still representing only about 25% of the entire market.

I know I went a little off-topic there but many people have waited long for Ogg Vorbis support to grow.  Things keep happening, new players are released, Company X will do something, and community adoption still lingers (outside of the niche group that already relies on it).  Lack of widespread support of a format does not give any indication to its quality.

To the OP: conduct your own set of blind ABX tests.  You can use a free program called foobar2000.  Pick a handful of tracks from your library that are a good representation of your musical tastes, encode them at various settings with Lame and AoTuV, and compare them to the source lossless tracks (via ABX testing).  We don't have your music, equipment, listening environment, or ears.  In all honesty, only you can determine what works best for your needs.  Personally speaking, I find Lame 3.98 at -V 3 to be very transparent especially for portable listening.  I conducted a handful of ABX tests a couple of months ago with Lame 3.98.  I miserably failed the tests when I conducted them in a portable environment (ie not at my quiet apartment but while at work on my netbook) and the results weren't that much better when I went back to my apartment (still transparent).  Your mileage may vary so it would be best to conduct your own set of tests.
 

MP3 (Lame) vs ogg Vorbis (AoTuV)

Reply #3 –
Quote from: kornchild2002 on
I wouldn't hold my breath for more Ogg Vorbis support.  It has existed for a while, been used in multiple programs (even PC games from Microsoft, such as Age Of Empires II, used Ogg Vorbis audio files), etc. and support still hasn't grown beyond a niche group.


Yes, Vorbis is used widely in games.

Quote from: kornchild2002 on
I doubt Google will change anything as PC support will only increase whenever portable hardware support also grows.


I have a different take then you on this. Most major browsers already have native support for WebM (at least in beta). Also, I foresee google slowly phasing out flv in favour of WebM on Youtube- thus there will be a demand on portables.

Quote from: kornchild2002 on
Quite frankly, the iPod (for better or worse) is the majority market holder for portable audio player sales.


A walled-garden is still a walled-garden- I can see people slowly waking up to the fact. It reminds me of AOL...

Quote from: kornchild2002 on
Every other manufacturer (including Microsoft) would have to team up and add Ogg Vorbis support to their players.  Even then they are still representing only about 25% of the entire market.


Almost all DAP players with the exception of Apple, MS and Sony have Vorbis support. For example, Cowon, Sandisk, iRiver, Samsung, Android based devices, etc.

Quote from: kornchild2002 on
To the OP:
...
In all honesty, only you can determine what works best for your needs.


Agreed.