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Topic: Rip to AAC - Best Method With Nero Codec (Read 19683 times) previous topic - next topic
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Rip to AAC - Best Method With Nero Codec

So far I have tried several different ways to rip CD's to AAC compression using the AAC codec in Nero.  My objective is to get the best possible results with the least amount of user intervention.  Your comments or tips on any of these would be appreciated:

1.  Use the save tracks option in Nero.  I have tried this and it seems to work.  However lately, I have not been able to rip at all with Nero.  Perhaps it does not like my drive.  Does anyone know of any deficiencies in the audio extraction routines in Nero, or the way that it tags files?  I suspect that there is a problem somewhere as nobody around here seems too intersted in this method.  I also have not had a chance to experiment with file naming and creating artist/album directories.

2.  EAC and nencode has the advantage of EAC's secure ripping, but it is difficult to set up because you have to hunt for instructions and some of the files, not to mention dealing with all of the quirks in EAC.  This did a completely automated job, but console windows would keep opening up making it difficult to use this as a backround task while doing something else on the PC.  In a few other posts I have asked for a solution to this, but nobody has replied.  Perhaps there is no fix available.

3.  Foobar 2000 can rip and encode to Nero AAC in one operation, but additional steps  are required to tag and rename the files.  This is not too bad, as the tag/rename steps are quick and could be saved up to perform after several CD"s have been encoded.  Does anyone know how the audio extraction routines in Foobar 2000 compare to the other options here?  Is there a way to script this operation?

4.  DBPoweramp was able to do a completely automated job, the works, including ape tags.  It even has presets for file naming with artist and album directories.  A quick edit of one INI file allows m4a file extensions as a default.  Again, does anyone know how the audio extraction routines compare with the other options.  I used slow extraction, as the aac encoding on my machine only runs at about 5x.  Of the four possibilities, this seemed to be the most convenient.

Rip to AAC - Best Method With Nero Codec

Reply #1
EAC has an option in the "Compression" menu to keep console windows from appearing.
You should go this way.
foobar2000 uses AKRip to extract CD audio. It has no error correction or detection.
dBPowerAMP, IIRC does some correction, but it doesn't mesure up with EAC's
I'm the one in the picture, sitting on a giant cabbage in Mexico, circa 1978.
Reseñas de Rock en Español: www.estadogeneral.com

Rip to AAC - Best Method With Nero Codec

Reply #2
The EAC option to keep the encoding window closed does not work with nencode because it is called by cmd.exe.  I use this option effectively with mpc and  oggenc encoders.

Rip to AAC - Best Method With Nero Codec

Reply #3
I rip all my tracks in EAC and then convert them to Nero AAC encoded files in foorbar2000, then use the Masstagger to tag them (which doesn't take any longer then typing the information into EAC).  You could also use freeDB in foobar2000 to (but I don't trust it, there to many mistakes).

Rip to AAC - Best Method With Nero Codec

Reply #4
get nEncode and tg from Rarewares, and use this in EAC:

User defined encoder
extension: .mp4 (or .m4a if you prefer that)
Program, including path, used for compression: c:\windows\system32\cmd.exe
Additional commandline options: /c c:\tools\nencode.exe %s %d && c:\tools\tg.exe %d --artist "%a" --album "%g" --track "%n" --title "%t" --genre "%m" --year %y

this is asuming you have nencode.exe, tg.exe and the nero aac dll's placed in c:\tools

these are the nero dll's that also needs to be in that directory:

NeroIPP.dll
wav.dll
Aac.dll
aacenc32.dll
aacmp32.dll

These DLL's can be found in c:\program files\common files\ahead\audioplugins and Lib

With this setup, you can just rip as usual (to compressed) in EAC, and the output file will be a .mp4/.m4a AAC file with proper tags. To select bitrate/profile to use in Nero AAC, simply run nencode.exe and choose (before ripping).

get nencode and tg from http://rarewares.hydrogenaudio.org (AAC and/or MP4 section).
myspace.com/borgei - last.fm/user/borgei

Rip to AAC - Best Method With Nero Codec

Reply #5
I rip using dbPoweramp but if I am having difficulty with a track I use EAC and rip to FLAC (lossless) and then use dbPoweramp right click "Convert to" option to convert to AAC.

Cheers,
Fairy

Rip to AAC - Best Method With Nero Codec

Reply #6
I am starting to think that the dbpoweramp direct rip to Nero AAC is a clear winner over using Foobar because what I am reading above is that the audio extraction routines in dbpoweramp are superior to those in Foobar, and the additional steps to tag and rename are eliminated.

Foobar may have some powerful features regarding file naming and tagging, but dbpoweramp seems to get the job done with a lot less effort.  At the moment I don't see any reason to rip with Nero as this fine CD/DVD mastering program just does not seem to have enough options in the file naming and tagging area.

It would be nice to get the EAC/nencode option to work without the console windows, but so far no Windows expert has chimed in to tell me if that is possible.

An occasional redo with EAC is a good idea, whether going through a flac file or wav.  However this works only when you have a second chance at the original CD.

It would seem that doing the extraction in EAC with direct compresion to flac followed by batch conversion to Nero AAC using either dbpoweramp or Foobar would also be a reasonably convenient option.  Because flac is fast it does not take much more time than a plain rip to wav and it allows the tag information to be stored for use by the conversion program.  The reduced file size may be necessary if doing a lot of extraction at once.  If I spring for a DVD burner, I could also archive the flac files.  Hmmmm....

Any other ideas out there?

Since writing the above, I discovered a way to extract and encode with Foobar 2000 that does not require any additional steps.  Just access freedb and "tag" the cd.  Foobar will issue an error message, close the box.

use this string to format the conversion output:

%artist%\%album%\$num(%tracknumber%,2). %artist% - %title%

It will pad the track numner with a leading zero so that the track names stay in order and create a directory structure to organize the output.  This string also worked nicely when transcoding from flac to AAC.

Rip to AAC - Best Method With Nero Codec

Reply #7
At the risk of making this thread look too much like a blog, I have some things to add.

Since I am now able to get Foobar to rip, encode to Nero AAC, tag and rename in one step, it appears to be at least equal to dbpoweramp.  The interfaces are different, but that is a personal choice issue.

What I don't know is which of the two programs output would be more compatible with iPod.  I consider this to be important as one of the main reasons to adopt AAC is iPod compatibility.  What I do know is that dbpoweramp does ID3 and APE2 tags.  Somewhere I read that Foobar tags M4A using ID4.  Meanwhile I see threads about iPod compatibility that seems to be realted to the tags.

If anyone around here understands what is going on regarding the tagging issue, please explain it to me.

As far as comparing the audio extraction capabilities of these two programs is concerned, as far as I can determine both have no error correction and the accurate rip feature just tells you if something went wrong, but does not fix it.

If anyone around here understands what is going on regarding the audio extraction issue, please explain it to me.

So far as using EAC is concerned, I have yet to find a workaround for nencode opening command windows.  Since I want to be able to do other thigs with my pc while extracting and encoding, nencode is out for the time being.  I tried ripping directly to flac (using the p4 optimized 1.1 codec) and to Monkey's Audio (MACDll.dll).  The compression process took about the same amount of time, but transcoding to Nero AAC using Foobar took 23% longer when going from Monkey's Audio.  At this point, the best alternative for EAC is to rip directly to flac and transcode to Nero AAC with Foobar.

I found Foobar to be more to my tastes for transcoding than dbpoweramp because I can use a formatting  string (see my last post)  to put the result where I want it, but with dbpoweramp I had to enter a directory name.  Since I expect to encode several
albums at a time, this additional automation is valuable.  Again, I am not sure what the effect of the potentially different tagging schemes of these programs may be.

I also did some trial runs using FAAC and Psytel.  Obviously, the appeal of FAAC is that it is free and therefore attractive to people who do not use Nero.  When comparing dbppoweramp to Foobar, the later allowed control over most of FAAC's parameters while the former did not allow for adjustments in bandwith "c" prefering to rely on the default auto setting.  Obviously some of the other issues echo here including, interface, renaming while transcoding, audio extraction and tag compatibility.

Whe using the Psytel encoder, I could not get Foobar to keep the distracting console windows from at least opening momentarily, even with tthe option to keep them closed checked.  I think this is related to the use of a second program, mp4creator (available at Rarewares) to place the AAC output in a MP4 wrapper.  Dbpoweramp also uses mp4creator, but manages to keep the console windows closed.  Again, are the APE2 tags iPod compatible.

The only trial that I did with EAC for a direct rip to FAAC was to use the method on Case's site with Wapet.  I added a parameter to get the Mpeg4 wrapper.  However, Wapet caused command windows to open.  Other than to require a separate tagging session in Foobar, I don't know how to get around this conveniently.  Again, does anyone know how to fix this?

I did not use Psytel with EAC because I don't know how to do it.  Somewhere I read that adding the wrapper with mp4creator can be automated with Mareo.  If anyone knows how to use EAC to extract, encode to Psytel, tag and apply the Mpeg4 wrapper without console windows jumping up all over the place, please let me know.

One thing that I have not tried yet is using EAC to rip to an uncompressed image file and then recreate the tags in Foobar.  There seem to be many issues related to processing these images to separate compressed tracks with tags.  I suspect that it may noit be possible to automate the process sufficiently.

What I really wish would happen is for someone to create an interface to Nero AAC for EAC that takes care of compression and tagging without the console window problem.

Rip to AAC - Best Method With Nero Codec

Reply #8
ID4 does not exist.

foobar, Nero, etc. use the same tagging scheme as iTunes uses.

Menno

Rip to AAC - Best Method With Nero Codec

Reply #9
@menno

Thanks for taking ID4 off the table, but what is the name of the iTunes compatible tagging scheme?  As in ID3 vx.x or APE v2 or something else.

Rip to AAC - Best Method With Nero Codec

Reply #10
You can also use foobar to put AAC in MP4 and vice versa, with the foo_mpeg4u plugin.

Menno

Rip to AAC - Best Method With Nero Codec

Reply #11
Quote
@menno

Thanks for taking ID4 off the table, but what is the name of the iTunes compatible tagging scheme?  As in ID3 vx.x or APE v2 or something else.

I suppose it has no name. So "iTunes compatible tagging" will do.

Menno

Rip to AAC - Best Method With Nero Codec

Reply #12
@Menno

Thank you for your help.  I must say that the degree of candor over at Nero Digital is impressive.

Your answer on the tag issue takes dbpoweramp out of the running because tracks encoded using the dbpoweramp/Nero AAC interface would require an extra step to replace the APE2 tags with the iTunes compatible system.

I was previously aware that Foobar can add the Mpeg4 container to a Psytel AAC track.  What I don't know yet is how to use this capability to achieve maximum automation.  Perhaps use EAC to rip and encode to Psytel using the Partial tagging capabilities that Psytel has.  Then, add the container and track number in Foobar.  However, I would prefer to avoid any step in the process that requires a separate processing step for each album after the initial rip, other than something simple like cueing up a bunch of albums for transcoding.

So far, the main alternatives for automating the M4A encoding process look like:

1.  Foobar to rip, access the Nero AAC codec , tag and rename, a one step solution.
2.  Same as above with FAAC.
3.  EAC to rip to flac followed with a batch transcode to either Nero AAC, FAAC or even Psytel if the process is run at night.

The choice of extraction software depends on how much convenience is required and  how many clicks/pops will be tolerated when ripping from pristine CD's.  I realize that for many around here convenience is not a factor, and the relative merits of using EAC over any alternative has been debated at length.

So far as sound quality of the three codecs is concerned, we will just have to wait for Roberto's next AAC shootout.  The most interesting to see is whether the development of Nero and FAAC results in a significant change relative to Psytel, which has been frozen.

Rip to AAC - Best Method With Nero Codec

Reply #13
Quote
Your answer on the tag issue takes dbpoweramp out of the running because tracks encoded using the dbpoweramp/Nero AAC interface would require an extra step to replace the APE2 tags with the iTunes compatible system.


Just to clear, dBpowerAMP writes .mp4 or .m4a files with iTunes compatible tags, NOT Apev2 - I am not that much of a slacker

It will write Apev2 onto AAC, just as FB does as there exists no tagging standard for that (well ape2 is better than id3v2 ala Winamp & aac).

Rip to AAC - Best Method With Nero Codec

Reply #14
Dear Spoon

Please accept my apology regarding the tagging scheme used by dbpoweramp.  I should have not jumped to conclusions.  Frankly, one of the best things about these forums is the participation by developers.

Perhaps you could enlighten me as to how the audio extraction routines in dbpoweramp might differ in capability from akrip as implemented by foobar, excluding accurate rip, which is an obvious difference.  I am mainly interested in avoiding the clicks and pops that many say are eliminated only by using EAC.  In the speed department dbpoweramp definitely is very fast, and the packaging of the codecs  allows non-geek types to use alternatives otherwise reserved for those used to working under the hood of a PC, or anyone else who does not have the time to uncork the mysteries of EAC.

Very Truly Yours

Eagleray (Ron)

Meanwhile, in the lossless compression forum I discovered this thread:

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....howtopic=17818&

This provides a solution for using EAC with external compressors such as nencode that appear to resist any effort to keep those console windows closed.

For example, just set up EAC  to use nencode as elsewhere described in this forum.  Check the sleep box under database -> compression cue controls and rip away.

Just before bedtime or leaving the house, bring up EAC and uncheck the sleep box.  The compression starts and runs until finished for multiple albums.  Console windows open, but who cares because nobody is there to look at them.  I just tested this with 2 albums and it worked like a charm.  EAC preserved the tagging information and TG .EXE is set up to write iPod compatible tags.

Nest thing is to see if I can get this latest trick to wrk with Psytel or FAAC.

Rip to AAC - Best Method With Nero Codec

Reply #15
I was able to set up EAC to work with FAAC and tg.exe.  Al it took was to substitute faac.exe for nencode.exe and place appropriate parameters after faac.  I had no such luck with Psytel as I could not get mpeg4creator to work.  At least this provides a way to rip in EAC, apply iTunes compatible tags and do a delayed encoding of multiple albums using EAC.  You may note that the method for setting up FAAC and several other codecs with EAC on Case's page uses wapet.ece which produces APE tags.  In all fairness to Case, that page has saved me a lot of time on some other codecs plus his site is a great source of goodies.

I would like to summarize where I have been with this project over the last couple of days.  If you are contemplating a major encoding job and have chosen to go with AAC/M4A there are a lot of alternatives.  If you want the process to not be a total headache consider this:

Conceptually, the easy way to do things is to encode while extracting.  Foobar and dbpoweramp will both do this well with the Nero AAC codec.  Foobar is more for the advanced user who would rather rip with EAC anyway.  Dbpoweramp is a great alternative for the non-technical user, the friend of the HA member that does not want to get into it too deep but would like something other than MP3 to upload to his iPod.  As far as the free AAC codecs go, dbpoweramp works better with Psytel and Foobar works better with FAAC.  EAC does not do this well because of the constant opening of console windows.

For the person that must use EAC nencode will work nicely if the rips are done at the keyboard, so to speak, and the encoding is done later by using the sleep feature in database->cue control.  This also works for FAAC.

If you want to archive to flac or Monkey's audio and produce lossy tracks for your PC or a portable, then use EAC to encode to flac or APE (23% slower transcode)  while extracting and then transcode to AAC using dbpoweramp or Foobar.  Either will do a good job with Nero AAC.  For FAAC, I would prefer Foobar because it gives more control over parameters then dbpoweramp.  For Psytel dbpoweramp can keep nasty console windows from opening if you do not want to encode at night.

Plese realize that I have a bias in favor of using EAC to rip.  This is probably a view held by a majority of HA members.  For the non-technical user, dbpoweramp opens the door to using Nero AAC, and with a few tweaks FAAC.  So far as Psytel is concerned, it might be time to let Psytel RIP as development continues at Nero Digital and on FAAC.  I cant wait to see what Robert comes up with on this one.

For me, it has been a nice extension of my knowledge of EAC and Foobar, and an introduction to dbpoweramp.  While I now reel very comfortable with EAC, I realize that I am just scratching the surface with both Foobar and dbpoweramp.

Rip to AAC - Best Method With Nero Codec

Reply #16
I don't know about AKRip, does it have drive offset correction?

Rip to AAC - Best Method With Nero Codec

Reply #17
Quote
get nencode and tg from http://rarewares.hydrogenaudio.org (AAC and/or MP4 section).

Ehm? tg? I don't think RareWares hosts that. And I should know :B

Rip to AAC - Best Method With Nero Codec

Reply #18
Sorry about the error, Roberto, and thanks for maintaining Rarewares.  To make matters worse, I don't remember exactly where tg.exe came from, but the name of the archive was tgutf.zip, and tg.exe is 823,793 bytes.  There are a lot of versions of tg.exe around.  I might have tracked this down at iPod lounge.

The dll's for nencode are hard to find as well, but google is your friend, as they say.

I have yet to find a way to keep the console windows closed, other than to use the database sleep trick and delay the encoding until I will not be using the pc for a while.  Any Windows command line guru around here know the answer?


Rip to AAC - Best Method With Nero Codec

Reply #20
Thank you, this makes things much easier
Happiness - The agreeable sensation of contemplating the misery of others.

 

Rip to AAC - Best Method With Nero Codec

Reply #21
Another member PM'ed me about using foo_nero.  I sent him this, but also thought it was worth a public post.  If you know your way around Foobar, you can skip this:


This is for foobar2000 77b

Download foo_nero
You can find it here:

http://pelit.koillismaa.fi/plugins/diskwriter.php

unzip and put foo_nero here:

C:\Program Files\foobar2000\components

Open foobar, put a music CD in your drive.
click components > play audio cd, a box will open, click the drive name and "add to playlist", close the little box

Click on the play list and ctrl-a to select all.

Right click any track, click freedb > get tags, a box opens, click preview and then "tag files".  An error box will open, ignore it and close it.

right click any track (they should all be chosen)

click convert > settings, a box sill open

I use this for output file formatting:

%artist%\%album%\$num(%tracknumber%,2). %artist% - %title%

(check create subdirectories)

select "Nero encoder" in the output format dropdown

press the settings box

select Nero digital audio HE-AAC in the dropdown (you do have to have nero installed for this to work) check m4a, click on configuration.  Select the "transparent" preset in Nero. Press OK.  Press close  and you are back to ther playlist.

Right Click a track (all should be highlighted)  convert > run conversion

when that it is done replay gain is on the same right click menu, use "scan selection as album".

That should do it.