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Topic: Janet Jackson could crash some computers (Read 10111 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Janet Jackson could crash some computers

Reply #1 –
Is it a story from one of their episode ?


 

Re: Janet Jackson could crash some computers

Reply #3 –
Quote from: Aleron Ives on
Nope. It's real.

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/janet-jacksons-music-video-is-now-a-vulnerability-for-crashing-hard-disks/


Here too but I still don't believe.

https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2022-38392

Quote
Description
A certain 5400 RPM OEM hard drive, as shipped with laptop PCs in approximately 2005

Date Record Created
20220817

Sound like an urban legend.







Re: Janet Jackson could crash some computers

Reply #4 –
Quote
The manufacturer worked around the problem by adding a custom filter in the audio pipeline that detected and removed the offending frequencies during audio playback.

Sure  :))

Re: Janet Jackson could crash some computers

Reply #5 –
Look up CVE-2022-39392. ;)

Re: Janet Jackson could crash some computers

Reply #7 –
While I can't confirm whether this particular account is true (since there isn't enough detail to identify an affected drive and reproduce the crash), it is plausible. Hard drives are sensitive to sound.

One of my previous employers actually ran into this issue - the datacenter was too loud for one vendor's drives to function.

Re: Janet Jackson could crash some computers

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Octocontrabass on
While I can't confirm whether this particular account is true (since there isn't enough detail to identify an affected drive and reproduce the crash), it is plausible. Hard drives are sensitive to sound.

One of my previous employers actually ran into this issue - the datacenter was too loud for one vendor's drives to function.


Yes like all mechanical thing it's sensible to vibration. And hard drive are very delicate. But in this case it's very suspicious. I don't buy the "resonant frequencies". Of what part ? What frequency?  There's no common resonant frequencies for the whole drive. Each part must have its own.

It's a nearly 20 years old story. Why it took so long to emerge? Why there is no information of the brand or model so we can repeat the experience.

The fact that it also crash others laptops nearby. I can't imagine the tiny speaker inside a 2005 laptop crashing a hard drive who can withstand at least one G in service and who is itself embedded in the case of a laptop meters away.  

If a hard drive miss a read or write due to vibrations or shocks it won"t crash. It'll try again and again until it work. Until the end of the song in that case. It will be totally transparent for the user. Maybe some trace in the logs, only if there was several times the same errors.  I don't think the hard drive will inform the OS for a simple error. Try with a hammer!

Even the second video seems suspicious. More than 40 HD rattling like hell in a rack with vibrations of huge amplitude and all is OK - it's a miracle but one can expect premature wear in this setup. Then the guy simply shout and here come a problem. Hmm...  ::)

Re: Janet Jackson could crash some computers

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Octocontrabass on
One of my previous employers actually ran into this issue - the datacenter was too loud for one vendor's drives to function.

Yes that true, it could happen. And as I said even without problem the drives wont last long in that kind of environment.

Re: Janet Jackson could crash some computers

Reply #11 –
Quote from: biloute on
If a hard drive miss a read or write due to vibrations or shocks it won"t crash. It'll try again and again until it work.
Even if the drive keeps trying forever, the OS won't. If the drive doesn't respond in an appropriate amount of time, the OS will eventually give up and assume the drive has been disconnected.

Quote from: biloute on
Even the second video seems suspicious. More than 40 HD rattling like hell in a rack with vibrations of huge amplitude and all is OK - it's a miracle but one can expect premature wear in this setup. Then the guy simply shout and here come a problem. Hmm...  ::)
Would you like some more videos?

Re: Janet Jackson could crash some computers

Reply #12 –
Hard drives are mechanical devices and can be affected by stuff that other mechanical devices can be affected by, don't know why some people in this thread think that can't be.  It is physics at play here.  Some computers are built like total absolute crap and can have all sorts of problems like fires and exploding batteries kind of bad if you're unlucky enough and you don't even need vibrations or sound for those kind of issues just plug it in and boom!  It's now on fire!

Re: Janet Jackson could crash some computers

Reply #14 –
Quote from: Octocontrabass on
Quote from: biloute on
If a hard drive miss a read or write due to vibrations or shocks it won"t crash. It'll try again and again until it work.
Even if the drive keeps trying forever, the OS won't. If the drive doesn't respond in an appropriate amount of time, the OS will eventually give up and assume the drive has been disconnected.

It'll take more time than the 5 sec. "resonance freq." of a song !


Quote
Would you like some more videos?

That's not really a microphone. At best it just sense some vibrations. I wonder why he doesn't play back the recording.


In the second video we don't see the even hard drive. I wonder why.
On what type of device did he put the harddrive ? A jackhammer ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DdqTz3CW5Y

Re: Janet Jackson could crash some computers

Reply #15 –
Quote from: doccolinni on
Quote from: Chibisteven on
don't know why some people in this thread think that can't be.

I'm pretty sure it's only one person.

No, most person with common sense will tell you the same.

Even if don't get how a hard drive works ask yourself this question: Why a vague story from 2005 with absolutely no reference emerge in 2022. Why you never heard such story - the song that kill the drive - between 2005 & 2022.

On this planet at least 100 millions of laptops are playing music 24/7. That's 50 billion songs a day, 20 trillion songs a year, and no replication of this problem since 2005  :))







Re: Janet Jackson could crash some computers

Reply #17 –
Quote from: biloute on
Quote from: doccolinni on
Quote from: Chibisteven on
don't know why some people in this thread think that can't be.

I'm pretty sure it's only one person.

No

I was saying that there's only one person in this thread that doesn't think this can be. And that is simply a true statement, not something you can "no" at.

Quote from: biloute on
On this planet at least 100 millions of laptops are playing music 24/7. That's 50 billion songs a day, 20 trillion songs a year, and no replication of this problem since 2005  :))

Yes, that's called "fixing a problem".

A fun little activity this "fixing a problem" is, because - you'd never guess - one of its consequences is that the problem ends up being fixed rather than recurring. Mind-blowing, I know.

Re: Janet Jackson could crash some computers

Reply #19 –

An other story of that genre, backed at the time by some scientists and researchers, was the possibility to extract ambient sounds from old Etruscan, Roman, etc, potteries. It was featured on magazines, internet, etc..



The sounds of the market, street, circa 350 BC recorded by the fingers of the artisan   :))


Yes, brainy men have felt for this. Maybe they scanned the pottery, in 3D X ray, etc.. I don't know.
Then their hope must have disappeared at one point. Common sense struck them.

I'm sure you could make believe that story to people around you. And not just the dumber.
Try it during a meal. It's not more stupid than crashing a drive meters away with a 3 cm speaker.


 




Re: Janet Jackson could crash some computers

Reply #20 –
Quote from: biloute on
There never was that problem in the first place.

Yes, I understand that that's what you're claiming, but your reasoning and argumentation that I was responding to - and which you conveniently removed from the quote - is nonsensical and illogical.

Let's review your argumentation one more time:
Quote from: biloute on
On this planet at least 100 millions of laptops are playing music 24/7. That's 50 billion songs a day, 20 trillion songs a year, and no replication of this problem since 2005

First, it is true that if this issue never actually occurred, then no one would experience it in all this time, just as you point out.

However - if this issue did indeed occur and was indeed resolved, as is being claimed, then it is also the case that no one would experience it in all this time - on account of the issue having been solved.

So your argument is absolutely meaningless - there being "no replication of this problem since 2005" is equally indicative of this issue never having happened and it happening and being solved.

Re: Janet Jackson could crash some computers

Reply #21 –
Quote from: doccolinni on
Yes, I understand that that's what you're claiming, but your reasoning and argumentation that I was responding to - and which you conveniently removed from the quote - is nonsensical and illogical.
Replies are in the hours and one or two message away so there is no need to quote the whole thing.

Quote
However - if this issue did indeed occur
Again, there is absolutely no proof - it's just the words of a Microsoft blogger.
What's his source? Western Digital or a chitchat around a coffee machine? Reddit ? :D

Quote
and was indeed resolved, as is being claimed, then it is also the case that no one would experience it in all this time - on account of the issue having been solved.

Do you really believe a claim like:

"The manufacturer worked around the problem by adding a custom filter in the audio pipeline that detected and removed the offending frequencies during audio playback."

That kind of Janet Jackson "patch" alone would have consumed 110% of the CPU cycles on a 2005 laptop.

And there is the:
 "And I’m sure they put a digital version of a “Do not remove” sticker on that audio filter. "

Yes, sure... What kind of laptop user in is right mind would take a look into the sound drivers searching for that type of notice?

Too bad that this guy didn't wait for the 1st April.





Re: Janet Jackson could crash some computers

Reply #22 –
Quote from: biloute on
Do you really believe a claim like:

"The manufacturer worked around the problem by adding a custom filter in the audio pipeline that detected and removed the offending frequencies during audio playback."

That kind of Janet Jackson "patch" alone would have consumed 110% of the CPU cycles on a 2005 laptop.

And there is the:
 "And I’m sure they put a digital version of a “Do not remove” sticker on that audio filter. "

Yes, sure... What kind of laptop user in is right mind would take a look into the sound drivers searching for that type of notice?

Too bad that this guy didn't wait for the 1st April.

You can easily filter out very specific frequencies with all sorts of filters without affecting the CPU that much.  I had a budget desktop machine from around 2004 and it wasn't difficult at all for the CPU to remove some frequencies in software.  In fact the audio system on my old XP machine supported EAX which was quite nice for games that supported it.  It wasn't uncommon for a sound card or onboard audio interface to support built-in hardware effects around that time.  Firmware was updateable, too.  Do you think these are computers out of the 80's or early 90's where the 16-bit CPUs couldn't handle as much?

Re: Janet Jackson could crash some computers

Reply #23 –
So, if
1: a spinning hard drive will stop reading/writing when it is exposed to vibrations,
and
2: if it does so for prolonged time, the OS/driver/firmware will give up and consider it disconnected
then, provided it is the system drive of a laptop, is it farfetched that this might be
3: interpreted as a "crash" even if the drive itself has not crashed - but potentially the OS, which cannot access the system drive?

Re: Janet Jackson could crash some computers

Reply #24 –
Quote from: Chibisteven on

You can easily filter out very specific frequencies with all sorts of filters without affecting the CPU that much.  I had a budget desktop machine from around 2004 and it wasn't difficult at all for the CPU to remove some frequencies in software.  In fact the audio system on my old XP machine supported EAX which was quite nice for games that supported it.  It wasn't uncommon for a sound card or onboard audio interface to support built-in hardware effects around that time.  Firmware was updateable, too.  Do you think these are computers out of the 80's or early 90's where the 16-bit CPUs couldn't handle as much?

It was corrected only by the CPU. No sound card to ease the job on the laptop.

But where is this driver / filter? There must be trace of it on the internet when the manufacturer published it for its costumers.

If the hard drive and speaker where bound together closely through a very rigid plate.. why not. I could believe that story, in this case it's not a matter of sound waves but vibrations induced by the speaker armature & voice coil. But a hard drive crashing meters away just by sound waves... No !