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Topic: Foobar 1.0 EQ -> loudness variations (Read 8711 times) previous topic - next topic
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Foobar 1.0 EQ -> loudness variations

Just wanted to bring this part of the now-closed topic to your attention
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....st&p=681955

Quote from: Garson link=msg=0 date=
Tell me please, why at equalizer activation there is an effect of normalisation of loudness?
I use version 1.0. Thanks


Quote from: Yirkha link=msg=0 date=
There is not.


Quote from: Mastermnd link=msg=0 date=
Yes there is. I was just going to post about this, glad someone else noticed it.

Something was done to the peaks processing or something
I have completely disabled ReplayGain, and still get random frequent loudness changes when the EQ is on (no other DSPs active).
This is the sole reason i am considering switching back to the 0.9 series.
I can attach my equalizer preset if anyone needs it.


Quote from: Case link=msg=0 date=
EQ volume pump effect seems to be side effect of using float output on Vista/7 with DirectSound. Windows mixer seems to lower volume for samples that would clip. If you try WASAPI output you should get expected output.


Now, using WASAPI output might work, but that creates problems with other apps that access the sound card at the same time, which is very inconvenient.
For example, VMware cannot use my sound device while I have foobar open anymore. Other applications come up with other errors too.

This simply didn't happen with Foobar 0.9. Why was it changed?
Anyway, could it be as simple as reducing the volume of Foobar2000, and then increasing the master volume in Windows? It seems to be working for me so far.

I thought it was still worth posting about this even though the solution seems so simple.


Foobar 1.0 EQ -> loudness variations

Reply #1
Stick an Advanced Limiter at the end of your DSP list and watch the problem vanish. Alternately, lower your equalization settings. by hitting the "Auto Level" button.

Foobar 1.0 EQ -> loudness variations

Reply #2
i've got much a similar problem, as well as an odd wobble in the overall sound output when near peaks(max volume in foobar, and at least 50% or higher in my windows volumes). but, only from foobar. nothing else seems to have this issue, and it's been present in all the versions i've been using since i started running the w7 beta (fb9. er. 5.4? i think? unsure.)

pretty much a stock install, no real changes beyond ui coloring and some minor changes to how i have things laid out in my columns. 

so, doesn't matter what output i change it to or what i play through foobar (though some songs are more noticeable just because of what they are), i tried the advanced limiter and that helps with the overall output.. _some_, but not really. tried the dedicated output plugin, didn't seem to do anything. even turning on the thing that allows exclusive mode in the audio device properties doesn't seem to do anything.

windows default drivers, realtek latest drivers.. nada.


this... flexible attenuation thing is rather obnoxious as sometimes i'd like to max my output from my pc so as to just point my remote at my receiver and be done with it.

anyone? :v


and on a side note, no i can't live without my eq. can't. period. XD

update #1; so i turned everything all the way up, turned off the eq. no issues beyond it sounding horrible. turned eq on, still okay. turned the volume down to half then back up, wobble and attenuation issue is back.
any hope for a fix? :D

Foobar 1.0 EQ -> loudness variations

Reply #3
I am having the same problem. Audio wobble up and down on certain songs, sounds terrible. With the EQ off it is not as noticable but the sound is very flat. I was very excited using Foobar. I had previously been fighting WMP 12 getting the drivers to play my FLAC's and I like the Foobar layout much better. WMP will play the same song with very similiar EQ settings and not have the wobble. I want to stay with Foobar but this is a deal breaker. Hope there is a fix, I will follow this thread.

    Thanks for any help

Foobar 1.0 EQ -> loudness variations

Reply #4
Both of you have tried Auto Level as I mentioned?

Foobar 1.0 EQ -> loudness variations

Reply #5
I wanted to try out Canar's solution, so I turned my volume all the way back up to reproduce the problem again.
Sticking Advanced limiter at the end of the DSP chain helps quite a bit, but the wobble is still there.

On the other hand, the "auto level" button for the EQ did the trick
So i'd suggest either:
1) Use the EQ's auto level button
OR
2) Lower your Foobar2000's volume by enough dbs to make up for the increased frequencies in the EQ.

Obviously solution 1 is much better. Thanks Canar!

Foobar 1.0 EQ -> loudness variations

Reply #6
eh, shouldn't need to autolevel, given that none of the sliders are actually _over_ 'flat', all i did was introduce a cut to the midranges that result in a non-flat sound, which in effect is what the autolevel does, only it takes what you have it set to and whatever is the highest slider becomes the new 0.


on a side note; playing with ASIO seems to have bypassed it entirely (for now?) but sometimes the playback just stops completely, forcing me to hit play again.

perhaps this issue is tied to how elements of foobar interact with directsound in vista/w7? /shrug

my output was set to ds: <device>

tries the KS output plugin, not supported by drivers, so i couldn't test that direction.

Foobar 1.0 EQ -> loudness variations

Reply #7
Instead of the Advanced Limiter, try the Hard limiter. That will trade "wobble" for harmonic distortion.

Cutting a frequency can cause clipping, somewhat counterintuitively.

Finally, if all of these suggestions fail to work, some other application is behaving strangely. Try muting every other source in your Mixer and see if the problem persists.

I have never encountered this problem, despite using DirectSound exclusively on both Vista and Windows 7.

Foobar 1.0 EQ -> loudness variations

Reply #8
okay, so. reset _everything_ (to make sure it wasn't something new), stock install -> ds output -> eq + hard limiter - all volumes set to 100%

toggled any other sources, no wobble
adjusted all volumes up and down, no wobble
adjusted eq, no wobble
turned eq on and off, no wobble
removed hard limiter; wobble returned with a vengeance.

so far the hard limiter _seems_ to work, and i can't seem to make it wobble at the upper volume ranges, even with my existing eq settings from before. i'll give it a couple days, see if it acts up again.




Foobar 1.0 EQ -> loudness variations

Reply #9
I dropped the Foobar main volume and that helped quite a bit. Don't care for auto leveling the EQ, I like to customize the EQ to my tastes. Now the hard -6db limiter seems to be the ticket!! With that on and the main volume dropped slightly I believe I am hooked again on Foobar, thanks for the help!

Foobar 1.0 EQ -> loudness variations

Reply #10
You fail to understand the purpose of auto level, Switchback...

Foobar 1.0 EQ -> loudness variations

Reply #11
Please explain........

"Alternately, lower your equalization settings. by hitting the "Auto Level" button"

Is this not your explaination...... grasshopper? I don't care to lower my EQ settings, not sure what purpose I am missing here. Excuse my sarcasm but I found your comment slightly patronizing.

Foobar 1.0 EQ -> loudness variations

Reply #12
The issue is related to clipping. Auto Level turns gain levels down so that you don't clip, which is what's causing the loudness variations in the first place, that's it. You can turn it up elsewhere in your playback chain.

But whatever, do it wrong and suffer the consequences, I guess.

Foobar 1.0 EQ -> loudness variations

Reply #13
I don't care to lower my EQ settings, not sure what purpose I am missing here.

I dropped the Foobar main volume and that helped quite a bit.




If you lower all the EQ sliders by the same amount (what the auto level button does), you're doing the same thing as lowering the volume slider.

Six one way, half-a-dozen the other.
elevatorladylevitateme

Foobar 1.0 EQ -> loudness variations

Reply #14
I'm following you now..... but "auto level" drops too far down and then my speaker volume is cranked for any other sounds. I will try adjusting EQ equally down slightly. This does fix the wobbling though, thanks Shakey. Canar if you explained what auto leveling did in your first post instead of just criticizing it would be much more productive.

Foobar 1.0 EQ -> loudness variations

Reply #15
Are you working on this problem?
I have gone back to version 0.9.6.9 

 

Foobar 1.0 EQ -> loudness variations

Reply #16
Just read the thread.
Thank you.
Full-quoting makes you scroll past the same junk over and over.