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Topic: 7-zip (Read 7143 times) previous topic - next topic
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7-zip

7-zip is going more popular. Someone told, that with Linux port, 7-zip will spread faster than a virus LOL.

I found 7-zip in: Real Alternative 1.09 and Polish version of Kazza Lite (7-zip SFX it unpack file to temp and run fully-featured installer). Some relases are packed with 7-zip: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.p...lease_id=188340

I use 7-zip also to pack cd-images and burn multiple programs to one CD.

EDIT: 7-zip is in 10 "Most Active" in Sourceforge.

7-zip

Reply #1 –
Whats the benefits of using 7-zip?

It doesn't reduce the file size of ape or flac.  It isn't as small as ape or flac when compressed from wav.

takes a long time to load into foobar when large wav files are used???

why use it?

7-zip

Reply #2 –
7zip is also used in many non-sourceforge opensource apps for win32 - for example, also for most unofficial firebird builds. The missing native linux port is its biggest downside(and at the same time, most wanted "feature").

As to why use 7zip: don't know about audio - i don't use archivers for my audio, since it is already compressed.
On other files than audio, the reason to use 7zip is simple: highest compression-ratio of all archivers currently, its open-source and it can also read other archives, such as zip, arj, rar, cab, bz2, etc.

but honestly: 7zip is nothing new in fb2k...... the 7zip plugin from kode has already been there since 0.7 - the only thing new is that its now included in the official installers.

- Lyx
I am arrogant and I can afford it because I deliver.

7-zip

Reply #3 –
7-zip is not for audio, but is great for music modules and MIDI tunes. 7-zip will support loseless audio codec in future. Probably Wavpack.

7-zip

Reply #4 –
It doesn't say that anywhere in that thread. All I see in that thread is you pestering the developer about adding WavPack as an audio compressor, even though you evidently don't have any insight into the technical details (for example WavPack's native SFX support would be completely irrelevant if this were ever to be added to 7-Zip). There is not even a slight sign of confirmation from the 7-Zip developer that this will become real (if anything, I have the impression it's rather the opposite).

BTW, there's a slight problem here...
Quote
Maybe send e-mail to David and request feature - "archive switch" - not for playback, loseless compression ONLY.



You can remove any functionality you want, but I don't think it would be wise (or even possible, with a clearly defined bitstream) to remove decoding functionality.

Even if this made it into 7-Zip - what would you want to do with a lossless compressor that has neither seeking nor streaming or tagging functionality? You're better off using a "proper" lossless audio codec whichever way you look at it. (I guess the .7z is too intriguing for you zealots...)


Edit: You should at least be able to spell that feature you're so badly whining for correctly... it's lossless, not "loseless".

7-zip

Reply #5 –
Quote
7-zip is not for audio, but is great for music modules and MIDI tunes


I just use MO3 for all my modules - problem solved, and mo3 compresses even more than 7zip when used for modules.

compressing MIDI-Files? Huh? I may be a filesize-whore, but those few kilobytes a midi-song uses i won't go through all the hassle to save 20kilobytes or so for.

So again my old situation - there is no use for archivers in combination with audio for me.

- Lyx

EDIT: there really is no need for lossless audio compression in 7zip - there are already enough specialized codecs for that. What 7zip really needs, is a native linux port - a native linux port would boost 7zip's popularity and widespread use alot in a short period of time - with a simple linux port, 7zip could maybe in a year be as popular as ACE(or even more). 7zip has more than enough features for now - what it lacks most as an open-source application is multi-platform-support.
I am arrogant and I can afford it because I deliver.

7-zip

Reply #6 –
Throwing out decoding, seeking, tagging etc. is for saving space. Theese options are not needed for archiving. Wavpack author already said that this removing is not needed.

Why multimedia compressor? It is generally not for compressing single WAV files and then to play it, but many programs and games contains WAV files. It will simply increase compression ratio for some archives.

"It doesn't say that anywhere in that thread." - yes, so what? I just found good algorithm for 7-zip, Igor will decide which one he`ll use.

And yes, Igor said he will add multimedia compression format to 7-zip. Questions are: when and which one?

7-zip

Reply #7 –
Quote
I just use MO3 for all my modules - problem solved, and mo3 compresses even more than 7zip when used for modules.


MO3 uses lossy compression; mp3 to compress all the samples in the module. Using 7zip is lossless.

7-zip

Reply #8 –
Is there a graph / table of information giving benchmarks of 7-zip vs rar vs winzip vs ace etc,....?


I know there is, so... thanks in advance

7-zip

Reply #9 –
I have done a quick test against WinZip, zipping a 340MB directory tree containing a mixture of source files (text) and compiled units and applications (binary).

I found that the 7z format is really for when compression is more important to you than speed.  The low compression, high speed option (fast) for 7z is actually still better compression and slightly slower than the slowest and highest compression option (maximum) in WinZip:

Code: [Select]
Compression   Time Taken  Ratio
Zip maximum   05m 11s     36%
7z fast       05m 16s     31%
7z normal     12m 40s     23%
7z ultra      25m 18s     19%

7-zip

Reply #10 –
I tried both 7zip and RAR on a bunch of files I was compressing, and in many cases the 7zip ended up larger than the RAR - and compressing with RAR is much faster. 

What 7zip really needs, though, is a better interface...the current one is very annoying to use.  If they can improve on that I'd switch just for the fact that it's open source and free, as opposed to RAR which I'm currently using.

7-zip

Reply #11 –
Hmmm, seems a vast difference between 7-Zip Fast and 7-Zip Ultra.  I dont recall any major differences with Zip or Rar's quality modes...

Cant find any useful benchmarks on the net, I'll have a play first hand soon; although floating offtopic, I had heard that SBC Archiver was about the best one around...      [/me Contemplates looking into all this]

7-zip

Reply #12 –
Ok guys, all benchmarks are welcome. But...

for zip use additional parameters: "pass=4 fb=255", without "" of course.

for 7-zip use additional parameter "fb=128" or "fb=160"

also parameter "d=16m mf=pat2h" gives often better compression, and higher ram consumption.

To prevent some problems: ULTRA compression needs 512mb ram.

<edit> GUI is for Igor not most important thing NOW (Linux port is most important) but it will be SURELY (IMO) corrected l8r...

7-zip not always wins with WinRAR... but sometimes wins, and it is free.</edit>

7-zip

Reply #13 –
In my experience (with lots of different things), 7zip almost consistently outperforms RAR. (7z Ultra vs Rar Best).

Sure, it's not a definite test, but out of 20 things tested RAR only won once...

Best 7zip performance was 4 years of company data (69M total) to 1.07M 7z. RAR took 1.8M and ZIP took 28M!

7-zip

Reply #14 –
Uncompressed: 290 MB, 4539 files.
Code: [Select]
7z       33.1 MB   24:29 (min:sec)
winrar   44.1 MB    6:00
zip      69.0 MB    8:12


Line for 7z:
7zn.exe a -t7z -r -y -m0=BCJ2 -m1=LZMA -m2=LZMA -m3=LZMA -mb0:1 -mb0s1:2 -mb0s2:3 -m1a=2 -m2a=2 -m3a=2 -m1d=64M -m2d=4M -m3d=4M -m1fb=128 -m2fb=128 -m3fb=128 archive.7z

Line for zip:
7zn.exe a -tzip -mfb=255 -mpass=4 -r archive.zip

Line for winrar:
WINRAR.exe a -s -m5 -md4096 -r archive.rar

7-zip

Reply #15 –
Quote
Line for 7z:
7zn.exe a -t7z -r -y -m0=BCJ2 -m1=LZMA -m2=LZMA -m3=LZMA -mb0:1 -mb0s1:2 -mb0s2:3 -m1a=2 -m2a=2 -m3a=2 -m1d=64M -m2d=4M -m3d=4M -m1fb=128 -m2fb=128 -m3fb=128 archive.7z

Check compression from rightclick and then "ULTRA" setting, fb=128 mf=pat2h d=16m

Another things:

Quote
Read and respond to this message at:
https://sourceforge.net/forum/message.php?m...?msg_id=2237405
By: bijugc

Thanks to work done by "Filip Navara" and "Lapo Luchini" now we have gcc port
of the commandline 7-zip is available.

I started a news group at yahoo for further discussion. You can join and get
original patches or a non member can download as zip from home page

Home page http://geocities.com/gcc7zip/
Mail group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gcc7zip/


Quote
Read and respond to this message at:
https://sourceforge.net/forum/message.php?m...?msg_id=2237152
By: ipavlov

Moltivolume: November-January.
Recovery: January-February.
16-bit stereo audio lossless: January-February.

Do we need other audio formats support in 7-zip?
I'm still not sure about that.
And what formats? 8/16-bit mono/stereo?
Are there some other real audio formats?

Also I plan only support for little-endian 16-bit data. Is there big-endian
audio data also?
Actually it's not big problem, since 7-zip already has swap2 and swap4
converters.

7-zip

Reply #16 –
Quote
Check compression from rightclick and then "ULTRA" setting, fb=128 mf=pat2h d=16m


With "Ultra" and parameters set to "fb=128 mf=pat2h d=16m":

35.4 MB

which is 2.3 MB larger than the line I used first. Didn't measure the time taken though.

The added space could be from that now every file is in a subfolder.

Edit:

Redid the test in the console, without the subfolder overhead:

7zn.exe a -t7z -r -y -mx=9 -mfb=128 -mmf=pat2h -md=16m archive.7z

Size was the same, 35.4 MB.
Time: 33 min 41.688 s

7-zip

Reply #17 –
Quote
In my experience (with lots of different things), 7zip almost consistently outperforms RAR. (7z Ultra vs Rar Best).

Sure, it's not a definite test, but out of 20 things tested RAR only won once...

Best 7zip performance was 4 years of company data (69M total) to 1.07M 7z. RAR took 1.8M and ZIP took 28M!

Funny. In my experience it's vice versa.
7-zip usually wins on binary-like data, on texts rar wins. Also, sometimes forcing "text compression" in rar gives good results.

-Eugene
The  greatest  programming  project of all took six days;  on the seventh  day  the  programmer  rested.  We've been trying to debug the !@#$%&* thing ever since. Moral: design before you implement.

7-zip

Reply #18 –
Does anyone know of a software that lets me convert my .rar and .zip archives to 7z ? I could save some diskspace that way, but I'm too lazy to repack every archive by hand .
Blubb

7-zip

Reply #19 –
Quote
Funny. In my experience it's vice versa.
7-zip usually wins on binary-like data, on texts rar wins. Also, sometimes forcing "text compression" in rar gives good results.

-Eugene

I have way more binary than text data of course. At best it's program sources which are 'mixed'. But you can try 0=PPMd:o=32:mem=26 for 7zip and text. Except for some texts RAR also wins on .wav's because 7zip has no specific coding for them, but I would use specific compressor for those anyway

7-zip

Reply #20 –
I packed my music mudule collection - 288mb, 1869 files. Never used solid compression for modules,

ZIP fb=255 pass=4:  182mb
RAR3.X: 161mb
7z - ultra + mf=pat3h d=4m fb-160 or ULTRA + fb=128: 158mb
ACE2.X: 153mb

So ACE2.X is winner here

7-zip

Reply #21 –
Quote
Does anyone know of a software that lets me convert my .rar and .zip archives to 7z ? I could save some diskspace that way, but I'm too lazy to repack every archive by hand .

Open a command prompt and change to the directory where your rar files are at, then type the following:

Code: [Select]
for /r %i in (*.rar) do @(
md "%~dpni"
pushd "%~dpni"
rar x "%~i"
7z a -t7z -mx=9 -r "%~dpni.7z" *
popd
)


Yes, include the line breaks.  The () lets you group commands together.  The @ prevents the command interpreter from displaying all of the individual commands.

That should repack the entire directory tree starting from the directory you're currently in.  You might have to modify the "rar" and "7z" calls to include the paths to the exes (if they're not on your path), or to exes that actually exist (like rar32 or 7zan).

This will only work on NT, 2k or XP.

Edit: If you want to save this into a batch file, don't forget to change the "%" to "%%".

7-zip

Reply #22 –
Summary of my test. I compressed the subfolder Vc7 in VS .NET installation. It has a large amount of .dll/.lib-files.

Uncompressed: 290 MB, 4539 files.
Code: [Select]
7z (1)   32.6 MB   25:06 (min:sec)
7z (2)   33.1 MB   24:29
7z (3)   35.4 MB   33:42
uha_mx   38.8 MB    8:12
uha_m3   38.8 MB   11:40
ace2     43.8 MB    5:43
winrar   44.1 MB    6:00
zip      69.0 MB    8:12


Note that these settings for 7z requires 640+ MB RAM!

7z (1):
7zn.exe a -t7z -r -y -mx=9 -ma=2 -md=64m -mfb=128

7z (2):
7zn.exe a -t7z -r -y -m0=BCJ2 -m1=LZMA -m2=LZMA -m3=LZMA -mb0:1 -mb0s1:2 -mb0s2:3 -m1a=2 -m2a=2 -m3a=2 -m1d=64M -m2d=4M -m3d=4M -m1fb=128 -m2fb=128 -m3fb=128

7z (3):
7zn.exe a -t7z -r -y -mx=9 -mfb=128 -mmf=pat2h -md=16m

Other commandlines used:
uharc a -r -y -mx -md32768
uharc a -r -y -m3 -md32768
ACE32.exe a -d4096 -m5 -s -c2 -r -std
WINRAR.exe a -s -m5 -md4096 -r
7zn.exe a -tzip -mfb=255 -mpass=4 -r

7-zip

Reply #23 –
How much ram does it take to decompress your test 7z (1)?  I have forgotten the relationship between compression and decompression in relation to time and ram required, if there even was one.
WARNING:  Changing of advanced parameters might degrade sound quality.  Modify them only if you are expirienced in audio compression!

7-zip

Reply #24 –
Quote
How much ram does it take to decompress your test 7z (1)?  I have forgotten the relationship between compression and decompression in relation to time and ram required, if there even was one.

About ~70 MB according to task manager.