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Topic: Asus STX vs O2/ODAC (Read 14913 times) previous topic - next topic
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Asus STX vs O2/ODAC

Hi guys,

I have an Asus STX.

I use it with HD 650 and HD 598. And occasionally with 32 ohm headphones or IEMs. But mostly with HD 650.

Would the O2/ODAC be an upgrade? I want something that is a wire with a gain. Something that is audibly transparent but has enough headroom.

So is my STX identical to the O2/ODAC as far as being audible is concerned? I have read reviews on head-fi how O2/ODAC is a huge upgrade over the STX. But I don't trust subjective tests.

Can somebody interpret the below measurements for me?

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/multimedi...ence-stx_7.html

http://www.stereophile.com/content/asus-xo...dK0ok6QTjb22.97

http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/asus-...-review,15.html

Also, is the iPhone DAC audibly transparent like the ODAC? What about the Airport Express and MacBook Air?

Thank You

God Bless

Aakshey
AVI ADM 9RS | HD 650 | HD 598 | Asus Essence One Muses Edition DAC & HA | Garage1217.com Project Ember HA | Asus STX DAC & HA | Fiio E12 | iDevices

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Asus STX vs O2/ODAC

Reply #1
If the quoted 10 ohm output impedance on the STX is correct, then it's not a great choice for low impedance headphones like your IEMs.  For something that won't load the device like your HD 650 and HD 598, there probably won't be much difference. 

For low impedance headphones, your iPhone is probably better than the STX.  For high impedance it might be a little too quiet at maximum volume.

Asus STX vs O2/ODAC

Reply #2
It has options of 6db Gain, 12db Gain and 18db Gain. It is pretty loud at 25% volume with 18db gain. So for the HD 650 will it sound identical to the O2/ODAC wrt transparency/distortion/measurements etc?

And how about for the HD 598?

Also, can STX drive planars like HE6?
AVI ADM 9RS | HD 650 | HD 598 | Asus Essence One Muses Edition DAC & HA | Garage1217.com Project Ember HA | Asus STX DAC & HA | Fiio E12 | iDevices

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Asus STX vs O2/ODAC

Reply #3
Two questions.

1. Are the below DACs audibly transparent such that they sound the same?
STX
iPhone
ODAC

2. Is the STX headphone amp as powerful as the O2 headphone amp? Such that both sound the same at a given volume?
AVI ADM 9RS | HD 650 | HD 598 | Asus Essence One Muses Edition DAC & HA | Garage1217.com Project Ember HA | Asus STX DAC & HA | Fiio E12 | iDevices

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Asus STX vs O2/ODAC

Reply #4
It has options of 6db Gain, 12db Gain and 18db Gain. It is pretty loud at 25% volume with 18db gain. So for the HD 650 will it sound identical to the O2/ODAC wrt transparency/distortion/measurements etc?

And how about for the HD 598?

Also, can STX drive planars like HE6?


Well


Here's the O2:

The STX is a great card, reaches 5 Vrms into 56 Ohm with low distortion, that will drive the HE-6 to 103.8 dB SPL Peak, more than enough. (Honestly I´ve never gone over 96 dB in my life).

The only "problem" with the STX is its output impedance that will EQ your 598 +1.2 dB @90 Hz, that's noticeable but not a big deal.


BTW, just in case, the "gain options" of the STX are sort of fake, (It lowers the gain digitally in the DAC) there's no potentiometer or gain stage.

0dB gain is actually -18 dB
+12dB is -6 dB.
+18dB  is 0 dB.




Asus STX vs O2/ODAC

Reply #5
And with a HD 650 is there a difference between the two setups or are they audibly the same?
AVI ADM 9RS | HD 650 | HD 598 | Asus Essence One Muses Edition DAC & HA | Garage1217.com Project Ember HA | Asus STX DAC & HA | Fiio E12 | iDevices

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Asus STX vs O2/ODAC

Reply #6
And all that Headfi speak about how hard HE6 are to drive? That you can make them loud but the bass remains wholly unless you drive them well?

Is all that non sense?
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Asus STX vs O2/ODAC

Reply #7
I read people say going from the STX to O2/ODAC was a night and day difference.  Depresses me! :S
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Asus STX vs O2/ODAC

Reply #8
And with a HD 650 is there a difference between the two setups or are they audibly the same?


The HD650 is where the STX performs the best (The higher the headphones impedance, the less risk to be EQ by a high Zout, and less current is needed, meaning lower distortion).

And all that Headfi speak about how hard HE6 are to drive? That you can make them loud but the bass remains wholly unless you drive them well?

Is all that non sense?


People exaggerate things, true they are one of the hardest headphones to drive out there, but they really dont know how much power they need, I cry everytime that I see people recommending Speaker amps for that thing.

And also Nwavguy stated this: "How Much Is Enough? – Most consider peaks of 110dB SPL sufficiently loud. Tyll measured the 300 ohm HD600 at 0.23V for 90dB so they need ten times more, or 2.3V, for 110dB. The power is (2.3 * 2.3) / 300 = 18 mW. This works for any headphone Tyll measured".

But really, I am a huge fan of him, and I completely disagree with that statement, There is no way that I can imagine 110 dB peak in my ears. And you dont have to trust me, actually you should determine what is loud enough for you by your own, you just need a multimeter and a Y cable. (And your headphones that you already have) (Tell me if you are interested to find that out and I´ll explain it, but basically you just need to determine what is the highest volume that you would set on Windows with the Quietest music that you have and with the STX set at "18 dB Gain").

I read people say going from the STX to O2/ODAC was a night and day difference.  Depresses me! :S

Relax xD, Really it is obvious that anyone will hear a "difference" after expending that much money on that combo, it is call expectation bias.

Also there could be a night day difference on some headphones, for example, see how the Super.fi 5 Pro frecuency response varies even on a output impedance of 10 Ohm (The STX Output impedance is 12 Ohm).



Not to mention that I haven't talk about the damping factor (I think Nwavguy explains that better than me, check it Here)

But notice that I've also conducted a blind test to see if I can noticed different damping factors, and I can't distinguish a damping factor higher than 3, so keep that on mind.

And some headphones like the HE-4 need 3 Vrms to reach 103 dB SPL peak, (If you see the STX graph you will see that the distortion reaches 0.03% (-70 dB) @3 Vrms with a load of 30 Ohm. So there's a small change that a "Uranium Ear" could hear that (But really I dont think that anyone can hear that, and the thing that in order to do so you will need to reach 103 dB peak says a lot about their ears xD).

Asus STX vs O2/ODAC

Reply #9
I also tried HD 598 with STX. I thought it sounded fabulous. What kind of distortion is it that I'm not able to hear?

Also, why am I not able to set my signature?
AVI ADM 9RS | HD 650 | HD 598 | Asus Essence One Muses Edition DAC & HA | Garage1217.com Project Ember HA | Asus STX DAC & HA | Fiio E12 | iDevices

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Asus STX vs O2/ODAC

Reply #10
I also tried HD 598 with STX. I thought it sounded fabulous. What kind of distortion is it that I'm not able to hear?

Also, why am I not able to set my signature?

One more thing, can you please point me to an AB test referenced online where anybody with any setup could tell a difference between the OEM cable and any other more expensive cable?
AVI ADM 9RS | HD 650 | HD 598 | Asus Essence One Muses Edition DAC & HA | Garage1217.com Project Ember HA | Asus STX DAC & HA | Fiio E12 | iDevices

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Asus STX vs O2/ODAC

Reply #11
I also tried HD 598 with STX. I thought it sounded fabulous. What kind of distortion is it that I'm not able to hear?

Also, why am I not able to set my signature?

One more thing, can you please point me to an AB test referenced online where anybody with any setup could tell a difference between the OEM cable and any other more expensive cable?


If your are talking about what's consider transparent, some people consider less than 0.01% transparent while others (Including me) consider less than 0.05% transparent.

The biggest deal on the 598 isn't the distortion (The STX has no problem to drive them under 0.01%), is that they are EQed +1.2 dB @ 90 Hz and that the damping factor is 3.3.

You should also check that out, use a switch box and connect the STX and the Iphone to it ,then match their volumen, try to use a multimeter to do it, (measure the voltage while the headphones are connected while both are playing a 60 Hz tone), then, set the same song on both sources at the same time and call someone to come in and switch between sources while your are staring at a wall and you will have to tell him which source is playing.

IF THINGS GET SERIOUS! you would have to tell him which source is which at least one 9 out of 10 times (He will have to switch the cables to a random position each trail)

And I have no idea about the signature. xD


This one is more than just the cables
Also, read This

The first thing that I really advise you to do, is to read all or at least 75% of Nwavguy whole blog.

Asus STX vs O2/ODAC

Reply #12
Ok. Thank You.

What kind of device do I need to connect HD 650 to two or more sources and switch on the fly?
AVI ADM 9RS | HD 650 | HD 598 | Asus Essence One Muses Edition DAC & HA | Garage1217.com Project Ember HA | Asus STX DAC & HA | Fiio E12 | iDevices

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Asus STX vs O2/ODAC

Reply #13
Ok. Thank You.

What kind of device do I need to connect HD 650 to two or more sources and switch on the fly?


This

But, 30$?????? That's too expensive, You can use a RCA Switch box + RCA to jack 3.5mm adapters that are way cheaper, I use one for my blind tests and Rightmark tests. xD (Mine is a Miyako DVP-100 that even has a jack 3.5mm output that helps a lot when setting voltages.



THIS!

If you dont have multimeter check the Uni-T UT 1368, it is able to measure AC precisely even on frequencies like 4 KHz.
Video


Asus STX vs O2/ODAC

Reply #14
How much does Uni-T cost? And how will I measure a headphone with it?
AVI ADM 9RS | HD 650 | HD 598 | Asus Essence One Muses Edition DAC & HA | Garage1217.com Project Ember HA | Asus STX DAC & HA | Fiio E12 | iDevices

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Asus STX vs O2/ODAC

Reply #15
How much does Uni-T cost? And how will I measure a headphone with it?

You wont measure headphones with that XD, You will measure the voltage that your source (Iphone, STX, etc) outputs into the 518 or whatever headphone you want, to match volumes for blind test and to measure what you consider loud enough.

And you can do more test like measure the output impedance (Altough the STX and Iphones output impedance is well know) and beyond.
(Look at the image that I posted in the last post, suposed that those resistances are a pair of headphones).

Link

Asus STX vs O2/ODAC

Reply #16
I'm quite confused. How will I connect the headphone to it?
AVI ADM 9RS | HD 650 | HD 598 | Asus Essence One Muses Edition DAC & HA | Garage1217.com Project Ember HA | Asus STX DAC & HA | Fiio E12 | iDevices

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Asus STX vs O2/ODAC

Reply #17
I'm quite confused. How will I connect the headphone to it?


Mmmm, Forget that it is a switch box, imagine that is a Y-cable that goes to one source, in one side you will connect the multimeter to measure AC voltage and on the other side you will connect the headphones, you play a tone (the multimeter that I linked has no problems measuring up to 4 KHz) on the first source and raise the volume while the headphones are connected until you reach "X" voltage, then you connect the Y cable to the other source and repeat the process on the other source using the same tone, now you have both devices set at the same volumen for the blind test, conect both to the Switch box and the headphones again and you're ready to go.

(Just that the RCA Switch box that I linked is actually a Switch Box AND a Y-cable, so it makes it easier)

You would say, "Why dont I just first measure the voltage directly to the soundcard/Iphone, etc and set both to the same voltage and then conect the headphones?". You shouldn't because of the output impedance and the voltage divider effect: Calc

For example set R1=Output impedance (12 Ohm in the case of the STX), R2=Headphone impedance (61 Ohm @1KHz) and Input voltage=voltage without the headphones, say that you raised the volumen up to about 0.5 Vrms, then click compute and you will see that the output voltage=Voltage with the headphones conected is 0.418 Vrms.

Now repeat the process with the Iphone (I dont know the output impedance of your Iphone, but it is usually something like 4 ohm or less, it shouldnt be an issue to find your Iphone's output impedance and you can calculate it anyway) so repeat the process with R1 being 4 Ohm and you will see that now the output voltage is 0.469 Vrms.

So we get a difference of 20log(0.469/0.418) = 1 dB in our volumen matching, that can affect your blind test result, That's why you have to measure the voltage while the headphones are connected to the source so what you measure is exactly what the headphones "receive".

You can also use that calc to set the STX voltage at 0.598 Vrms and the Iphone at 0.533 Vrms(I say that one guessing its output impedance) so when the 518 are conected the voltage will be 5 Vrms in both devices, but, I wouldnt do that, Output impedance measurements vary a bit, for example persunalaudio measured a 17.9 Ohm in the SB-Z while Goldenears measured 22.1 Ohm.

Sorry if I couldn't explain it better, this is not my native language.

Asus STX vs O2/ODAC

Reply #18
Oh ok. Thank You. If any amp/DAC is capable of causing fatigue/sibilance with a headphone, will that show up in measurements or will that not appear in measurements?
AVI ADM 9RS | HD 650 | HD 598 | Asus Essence One Muses Edition DAC & HA | Garage1217.com Project Ember HA | Asus STX DAC & HA | Fiio E12 | iDevices

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Asus STX vs O2/ODAC

Reply #19
I haven't read the thread but main difference is output impedance (though just ~10 ohm on the STX) and noise floor. The STX can produce an audible noise floor with sensitive headphones.
"I hear it when I see it."

Asus STX vs O2/ODAC

Reply #20
I haven't read the thread but main difference is output impedance (though just ~10 ohm on the STX) and noise floor. The STX can produce an audible noise floor with sensitive headphones.


I am talking about the HD 650. Not IEMs.
AVI ADM 9RS | HD 650 | HD 598 | Asus Essence One Muses Edition DAC & HA | Garage1217.com Project Ember HA | Asus STX DAC & HA | Fiio E12 | iDevices

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Asus STX vs O2/ODAC

Reply #21
Oh ok. Thank You. If any amp/DAC is capable of causing fatigue/sibilance with a headphone, will that show up in measurements or will that not appear in measurements?


I really dont understand how could an amp "fatigue" a headphone or be "fatigue" by them, do you mean clipping? I'm pretty sure that you will go deaf before the STX clips with the 518, the STX starts clipping over 5V into a 56 Ohm load. That's 124 dB for the 518. 

To calculate that check Innerfidelity's graphs, the 518 dont appear, but AFAIK they use the same drivers of the 598. He measured 0.090 Vrms to reach 90 dB. The formula is 90 + 20log(V-ampli/V-innerfidelity) -------> 90 + 20log(5/0.09) = 124 dB.

Link

How can an amp be capable to create sibilance in a headphone? The only way could be that you plug a IEMs ike the UE600 (they have a impedance of 10 Ohm @500 hz and goes up to 30 Ohm @11 KHz and 40 Ohms @20 KHz) into a source with a output impedance of 100 Ohm. That will boost 11 KHz +6.5 dB and forget 20 KHz xD.

Asus STX vs O2/ODAC

Reply #22
People at Headfi say that HD 800 is sibilant with the STX but smooth with expensive amps. And that sibilance causes ear fatigue. That is why I asked.
AVI ADM 9RS | HD 650 | HD 598 | Asus Essence One Muses Edition DAC & HA | Garage1217.com Project Ember HA | Asus STX DAC & HA | Fiio E12 | iDevices

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Asus STX vs O2/ODAC

Reply #23
People at Headfi say that HD 800 is sibilant with the STX but smooth with expensive amps. And that sibilance causes ear fatigue. That is why I asked.


I would like to know what are those "expensive amps", hopefully they aren't Tube amps.

Asus STX vs O2/ODAC

Reply #24
Senn HDVD 800, Lehmann Black Cube Linear, Graham Slee etc. Violectric, SPL, Beta22 etc.
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