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Topic: Childish Behaviour (Read 9424 times) previous topic - next topic
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Childish Behaviour

Everything I write about applies to this message thread:

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....pic=14415&st=0&

A new guy visits HA and asks for opinions on players he can try, other than Winamp which he is using now. Not only was FB2K forced on him, when he gave his own reasons for not wanting to try that software (see below) - he was called a troll by Garf, in my opinion Garf is way out of line (Garf put in the last word and closed the thread). Not only that a guy chipped in that he couldn't get the EQ working in FB2K - it was replied to with sly comments, as though the guy was somehow mentally deficient.

I would like to see Garf appologise to both people, if this is the future of HA, perhaps it is time for a new board elsewhere, where it is ok to talk about things (I for one am interested in all the players out there, what they provide, yet in that entire thread I was the only one who tried to reply on topic!).

-----------

His reason was that he didn't want to try any software that hadn't reached the 1.0 release, relating to FB2K I can tell of my own experiance why that might be so - 2 months ago I was working on mp4 tagging - I wanted to see some FB2K tagged mp4 files, so I download the latest RC of FB, and the mp4 codec. Upon starting FB complained that the codec was the wrong version for it, so I went and got a newer version of FB, installed that and that is when problems really started to happen - FB2K wouldn't start as it complained all the plugins were a wrong version. I didn't investigate, I had spent 20 minutes on it, so went and got the mp4 codec for Winamp. Just an example...

Childish Behaviour

Reply #1 –
I'm sorry, but I completely stand by what I said in that thread. If you want to convince me I behaved inappropriately, please give me some arguments.

Childish Behaviour

Reply #2 –
After a quick read, all I saw was Garf being a bit rough, and the original poster saying useless arguments about how 0.x versions aren't supposed to be final.  The rest seemed pretty normal to me.

True, only foobar was mentioned as an alternative, but then, HA is about quality, not necessarily about "all-in-one-jukebox" players. The comments strongly advocated foobar, but is it really childish behavior?

[edit] Also I don't see the reasons behind the original post. Such information is trivial to find. [/edit]

Did I miss something?

edit: fixed spelling

Childish Behaviour

Reply #3 –
IMO the turning of this thread into off-topic (version numbering, people claiming bs, ...) was reason enough to close that thread.

Quote
So, what do you think serious competition for winamp is? What player is better? Why is it better? What is the killer feature it has that winamp doesn't have?

I'm furthermore very frightened of such statements/questions but that´s just me being paranoid!

Childish Behaviour

Reply #4 –
Heh, spoon...

Even though I haven't attented that thread, at least yet, even I was immediately aware what it was about..
Check here and make your own conclusions:
http://forums.winamp.com/member.php?action...info&userid=282

Oh, and you might want to check #nullsoft too... 

Poor "new guy".. 
Juha Laaksonheimo

Childish Behaviour

Reply #5 –
I don't know if he was trolling, but he was being so close-minded as to be really close to be trolling. What I didn't like very much is the thread being closed so quickly. I wanted to reply too.

Childish Behaviour

Reply #6 –
Typically, this sort of thing is discussed with the admins and the moderators privately.

As for the new guy, he basically had preconceptions of a piece of software and declined to try it based on those preconceptions.  This would be akin to me NOT trying iTunes because I've never been impressed with software ported from the Mac.  If there's one thing that can be said about this site, it would be this: The goal is to blow away all pre/mis-conceptions about audio.  (Incidentally, that's was another misconception he had, that HA was about music, but I digress since Garf made this mistake as well).

Even worse, he refused to try Fb2k because it wasn't 1.0, even though it sounded like he would be willing to compare it to Winamp 5.0, which is currently still beta.

I don't know if I like Garf locking down the thread (which may have allowed for more discussion), but the warning I think was valid, especially given the last post on the first page.

Childish Behaviour

Reply #7 –
Code: [Select]
Interests      Ruling the universe with an iron fist. 
Occupation  Web God.

<sarcastic> Web designers tend to be megalomaniac. Maybe he's frustrated because he can't code ?    Or he went crazy after working for long periods on Javascript ?  </sarcastic>

Childish Behaviour

Reply #8 –
Holy crap, I had totally forgotten that this was the guy who flame rjamorim of being a Foobar 2000 Zealot.

Childish Behaviour

Reply #9 –
Quote
Not only that a guy chipped in that he couldn't get the EQ working in FB2K...

If I recall his post correctly, this wasn't his problem.

If he had asked for help in activating the the equalizer in FB2K:
Firstly, he should have asked it in the Foobar2000 forums,
Secondly, I'd have gladly and non-sarcastically helped him.

Childish Behaviour

Reply #10 –
Quote
Code: [Select]
Interests      Ruling the universe with an iron fist. 
Occupation  Web God.

I don't think we should derive, or deduce anything from a person's input in his profile page. If anyone can recall, someone used this as a personal attack on me when I was asserting facts about Musepack and ABX. What we can use as 'evidence' against anyone is the content that they put in their posts.

Childish Behaviour

Reply #11 –
Quote
A new guy visits HA and asks for opinions on players he can try, other than Winamp which he is using now. Not only was FB2K forced on him, when he gave his own reasons for not wanting to try that software (see below) - he was called a troll by Garf, in my opinion Garf is way out of line (Garf put in the last word and closed the thread).

What ppl were attacking was his reasoning for not wanting to try foobar and it was explain to him that the version number had no relevance.
Secondly you did you see what garf saw on IRC to conclude that he was a troll.
And third: a thread is not neccesarily closed to punish someone. When it drifts off topic and nothing useful is comming out of the discussion that looks like it will turn into a flame war soon it will and should be closed.



Quote
Not only that a guy chipped in that he couldn't get the EQ working in FB2K - it was replied to with sly comments, as though the guy was somehow mentally deficient.

What in the reply do you not conceive as trying to be helpful and help the poster understand the eq.?



Quote
I would like to see Garf appologise to both people, if this is the future of HA, perhaps it is time for a new board elsewhere, where it is ok to talk about things (I for one am interested in all the players out there, what they provide, yet in that entire thread I was the only one who tried to reply on topic!).

Why is it that we have to justify a moderator's call to you all the time?
This is not the first time you have done it and it's really not appreciated. We don't have time nor do we wish to have to spend time on you because you do not accept our judgement.
You did not have the contact with this guy that garf did.


Quote
His reason was that he didn't want to try any software that hadn't reached the 1.0 release, relating to FB2K I can tell of my own experiance why that might be so - 2 months ago I was working on mp4 tagging - I wanted to see some FB2K tagged mp4 files, so I download the latest RC of FB, and the mp4 codec. Upon starting FB complained that the codec was the wrong version for it, so I went and got a newer version of FB, installed that and that is when problems really started to happen - FB2K wouldn't start as it complained all the plugins were a wrong version. I didn't investigate, I had spent 20 minutes on it, so went and got the mp4 codec for Winamp. Just an example...

So because you mix up components compiled for different versions you conclude that the program is bad?
You copy files around windows versions too and expect them to work?
Btw.: if you download the special installer on the official site you will have most of the relevant components.

Childish Behaviour

Reply #12 –
About the locking of the thread: I locked it until I could talk with THEMike on IRC. I've now done so, and the thread is reopened.

Childish Behaviour

Reply #13 –
It does seem a shame to argue with someone who has Kylie's bottom in his avatar.

But he could have downloaded foobar and tested it in the time he spent explaining why he didn't even want to try it.

It was a close call whether he was trolling or not. I'd probably have given him the benefit of the doubt for a little longer, but then I've done that once too often on UseNet. As a moderator, Garf is probably more experienced at spotting this.


FooBar obviously isn't "finished" - that's true - but there are good reasons for taking a look now, even if you're looking for a "finished" piece of software. For one thing, it might show you some of the things that all these other "finished" pieces of software lack. That was his initial question "what features are out there that I don't know about".


"if this is the future of HA, perhaps it is time for a new board elsewhere"

 

Cheers,
David.

P.S. just noticed that there have been several replies while I was writing this - and I thought I was so quick!

Cheers,
David.

Childish Behaviour

Reply #14 –
Quote
I don't think we should derive, or deduce anything from a person's input in his profile page. If anyone can recall, someone used this as a personal attack on me when I was asserting facts about Musepack and ABX. What we can use as 'evidence' against anyone is the content that they put in their posts.

I wouldn't deduce anything other that his personality.  If you look at some of his other posts, it appears he's usually quite rough and agressive.  Regardless of his competence and of the software he makes/likes, I'm confident that when he posted on HA, he knew perfectly what would happen.

Seriously..  he talked with Peter several times, so why in the world would he ask for advice about what player to use ? Obviously he had all the information he needed.

Childish Behaviour

Reply #15 –
How do people get so wound up about message forum's on computers?

Childish Behaviour

Reply #16 –
Quote
perhaps it is time for a new board elsewhere

*cough*

Childish Behaviour

Reply #17 –
Quote
Everything I write about applies to this message thread:

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....pic=14415&st=0&

A new guy visits HA and asks for opinions on players he can try, other than Winamp which he is using now. Not only was FB2K forced on him, when he gave his own reasons for not wanting to try that software (see below) - he was called a troll by Garf, in my opinion Garf is way out of line (Garf put in the last word and closed the thread). Not only that a guy chipped in that he couldn't get the EQ working in FB2K - it was replied to with sly comments, as though the guy was somehow mentally deficient.

I would like to see Garf appologise to both people, if this is the future of HA, perhaps it is time for a new board elsewhere, where it is ok to talk about things (I for one am interested in all the players out there, what they provide, yet in that entire thread I was the only one who tried to reply on topic!).

-----------

His reason was that he didn't want to try any software that hadn't reached the 1.0 release, relating to FB2K I can tell of my own experiance why that might be so - 2 months ago I was working on mp4 tagging - I wanted to see some FB2K tagged mp4 files, so I download the latest RC of FB, and the mp4 codec. Upon starting FB complained that the codec was the wrong version for it, so I went and got a newer version of FB, installed that and that is when problems really started to happen - FB2K wouldn't start as it complained all the plugins were a wrong version. I didn't investigate, I had spent 20 minutes on it, so went and got the mp4 codec for Winamp. Just an example...

Speaking of being childish, you were the person to post "MP4 file renamer" news (as well as weekly spa^H^H^Hnews about dbpoweramp updates), and that got your validated news forum access removed. Perhaps it's time to cut on your posting privelages more.
Microsoft Windows: We can't script here, this is bat country.

Childish Behaviour

Reply #18 –
Quote
Speaking of being childish, you were the person to post "MP4 file renamer" news (as well as weekly spa^H^H^Hnews about dbpoweramp updates), and that got your validated news forum access removed. Perhaps it's time to cut on your posting privelages more.


Oh good...put the boot in, that is relevant. BTW I am not coming down to your level to quirp out a reply, YOU want to ban me, go ahead!  Before anyone belives that rubbish, just go an look in the News Releases - for the last two months I have posted 2 news items - one per month, on a wide range or programs. Oh yes FB2K has had 2 in that time.

I will admit that the mp4 renamer was questionable, you didn't hear a quip out of me, but what I did see was lots of people with mp4 files, iTunes on the scene and no ability to import those files, so F**** you if you think I was out of line for spending X amount of my time to help those people.

Childish Behaviour

Reply #19 –
I don't know, but Peter's attitude is somehow disturbing me. He always look at other people as if he was God.

I think it would have been enough to tell Spoon that he should stop posting news about every small modification in his program, but ...

Quote
Perhaps it's time to cut on your posting privelages more.


Childish Behaviour

Reply #20 –
spoon,

Don't you think THEMike was acting childish himself by refusing to even try an audio player simply because of the friggin' version number ?

Quote
His reason was that he didn't want to try any software that hadn't reached the 1.0 release, relating to FB2K I can tell of my own experiance why that might be so - 2 months ago I was working on mp4 tagging - I wanted to see some FB2K tagged mp4 files, so I download the latest RC of FB, and the mp4 codec. Upon starting FB complained that the codec was the wrong version for it, so I went and got a newer version of FB, installed that and that is when problems really started to happen - FB2K wouldn't start as it complained all the plugins were a wrong version. I didn't investigate, I had spent 20 minutes on it, so went and got the mp4 codec for Winamp. Just an example...

Even though you could have saved yourself some trouble by using Case's special installer, this reaction is still much more understandable and acceptable than THEMike's behaviour. At least you gave it a try.
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.

Childish Behaviour

Reply #21 –
It seems this situation had a lot more to it than a first glance would tell.

That being said, many HA readers have demonstrated an attitude common to IT people, of which I am one.

I have seen a 'tendency' toward the following behaviors that are destructive to all of us gaining benefit from the diverse people this world offers.

1. Eliteism, I got the best stuff, and yours is crap.
2. One size fits all, this is the best, for everybody.
3. Blatant putdowns, you must be a moron, since you don't agree with me.
4. Are you the biggest noob in the universe, or just a contender for the title?

I can identify these, because I have been guilty of each myself.
I believe all HA readers would benefit from a 'kinder gentler' attitude.
Of course, for Trollers, 'off with their heads.' 

Childish Behaviour

Reply #22 –
well, my 0,02 €...
first of all, I think it's a good thing to be able to put the moderators under critizm, though only on a clean argumentative level.
I think I could also see where the original discussion slowly lead to an kind of trolling off topic, anti-foobar2k posting. I find garfs reactions in his posts quite reasonable. he could have anounced in his last post before closing the thread, that he may open it later on (if that was planed from the beginning).

it is just simply extremly narrow-minded (or 'sub-trolling') to lead the discussion to a weird topic of pre 1.0 apps are not worth to try etc.
I guess every developer has it's own release and naming sheme, and though 1.0 often is the first 'ready'  , it does not have to be the case, therefore realy worthless to discuss.
Nothing but a Heartache - Since I found my Baby ;)

Childish Behaviour

Reply #24 –
Quote
Oh good...put the boot in, that is relevant. BTW I am not coming down to your level to quirp out a reply, YOU want to ban me, go ahead!  Before anyone belives that rubbish, just go an look in the News Releases - for the last two months I have posted 2 news items - one per month, on a wide range or programs. Oh yes FB2K has had 2 in that time.

I will admit that the mp4 renamer was questionable, you didn't hear a quip out of me, but what I did see was lots of people with mp4 files, iTunes on the scene and no ability to import those files, so F**** you if you think I was out of line for spending X amount of my time to help those people.

Nothing wrong with announcing mp4 renamer in one of forums, or even in news submissions, but NOT directly in validated news. That is blatant advertising. Speaking of foobar2000 news, I didn't post them myself, other people did, and I didn't even bother validating them myself. If anyone else considers 0.7.1 news redundant (I do), I will remove that post.
Most of mods/admins agree with me here so don't bother arguing. Your behavior is being a problem here, and now you are insulting me.
Microsoft Windows: We can't script here, this is bat country.