Skip to main content ↑ ↓

Notice

Please note that most of the software linked on this forum is likely to be safe to use. If you are unsure, feel free to ask in the relevant topics, or send a private message to an administrator or moderator. To help curb the problems of false positives, or in the event that you do find actual malware, you can contribute through the article linked here.
Topic: Best price/value DAC's (Read 36566 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Best price/value DAC's

Reply #100 –
Quote from: andrew_berge on
My two cents: Honestly, ignorance is met with brutal persecution on this forum.
On what basis do you assume "ignorance" is why folks skip the dozens of 'live listening experience' audiomoron forums and join HA, for " 'live listening experience' with certain components" advice?
Loudspeaker manufacturer

Re: Best price/value DAC's

Reply #101 –
Quote from: andrew_berge on
ignorance is met with brutal persecution on this forum.

Maybe, but beware of excessive "niceness" lest you find yourself overrun by idiots and trolls. Not everyone is willing to re-examine their core audio beliefs.

Re: Best price/value DAC's

Reply #102 –
Quote from: ajinfla on
On what basis do you assume "ignorance" is why folks skip the dozens of 'live listening experience' audiomoron forums and join HA, for " 'live listening experience' with certain components" advice?
Principle, i suppose. When a new member enters there is no basis on which to assume they're trolling, ignorant, or anything else, really.
Until there is evidence to the contrary, i prefer to assume the best since that generally leads to the best outcome for everyone, in my experience.

Quote from: 4season on
Maybe, but beware of excessive "niceness" lest you find yourself overrun by idiots and trolls. Not everyone is willing to re-examine their core audio beliefs.
This is true, but i don't think a middle ground would be too hard to achieve. As i stated, not everyone comes here to learn. I was suggesting that until a person clearly shows that they belong to that group, they should be treated with respect.

Re: Best price/value DAC's

Reply #103 –
Quote from: andrew_berge on
Honestly, ignorance is met with brutal persecution on this forum.

When a new member enters there is no basis on which to assume they're trolling, ignorant, or anything else, really.
Yet you did.
So perhaps less pontificating and more introspection?
Loudspeaker manufacturer

Re: Best price/value DAC's

Reply #104 –
Quote from: andrew_berge on
I was suggesting that until a person clearly shows that they belong to that group, they should be treated with respect.
You should take into account that some people are quicker than others in recognizing it. If you have dealt with audiophiles for years or even decades, you know the patterns.

Re: Best price/value DAC's

Reply #105 –
Quote from: andrew_berge on
A note: This site remains a wonderful source of information if one knows what they're doing. Also, i've seen numerous threads that degenerated because the new user was very obviously not here to learn. My quibble is that new users aren't given much of a chance, some of them are here to learn, and like anyone who is learning about literally anything (including each and every one of us), they have misconceptions. They should absolutely not be reviled for them.
Why I participate in this discussion comes is because something I noticed in general IRL.

Situation with young adults (not necessarily very young, up to 30 years old) just past their vocational or university degree on the surface looks like it's it's always been, but what I noticed on the side, some things have changed.

Individuals who are really talented still go where they want to go. But they spend a lot of time and effort in social networking. They look for opportunities to get income, expand their CV and further develop their skills. They are taught early that they need to develop social skills to sell their knowledge if they wish such opportunities to open for them.

Individual who are good but balance their interests with other things, might stability of income, family or other factor. However, they are also very good at networking and while they they options aren't the same as for the top 10% they get employed.

Then there are workhorses. They learn the basics and can be good on few things, but for whatever reasons, they don't appear to be very willing to expand from that. People who always come to work, are reliable live mixers for example, but everything they mix sounds the same. They also realise importance of networking but unfortunately their social skills appear often be limited to selling their 'ego' which limits their options.

Then there used to be people who could be very good in very narrow area but it's like they have disappeared. What I see instead are 'Hipsters' who somehow try to sell themselves to whatever position by their social skills. Even skills they have via education doesn't appear to matter for them, they don't necessarily perform their tasks unless supervised, being 'creative' with their CV doesn't matter to them. The work market is just endless rows of door knobs for them. What is sad, is that they exists because their approach relying on social skills and playing a role of professional works!

Thinking of this forum environment, especially first two types tend to be contributors if they find something worthwhile. But they are taught about communication skills and networking and also grown to expects certain things from their environments. Their time budget is limited because of economical realities they must pay attention to networking. Yet, I think potential lies in these people.

Quote from: Thad E Ginathom on
People need to be shown something convincing. And preferably something a bit gentle! Maybe a wiki page on introductory audiophile misconceptions would help, and would avoid the many pages of repetition.

With a member who simply won't take the hint, or even the flat-out statement, this is not the place for you, then a hundred wiki pages, links to articles, etc etc, would not make any difference. Probably we are lucky to only be up to four pages here!
I don't know gentle, that's up to community though, but there is difference between harsh and firm. It's again up from different opinions if harsh could be a badge of merit to be proud of or if being instead being firm would be better reputation wise. Then there is how to make something workable in environment where different people perceive things differently. Moderation would be impossible in environment where distinction would be made on subjective basis. That's why I suggested education, where there are defined terms, means and goals.

Anyway, I doubt culture which originates and resembles the usenet era being sustainable in large communities for long. Today gear and software are seen just what they are, tools of trade. Even there are extroverts and introverts like always, I don't see people who could be classified as geeks any more anywhere (that said, I haven't seen audiophiles for few years either).

However, whatever if anything would be made, it IMO has to be based on selfish agenda, gaining influence. 'Gentle' approach, while I see what you mean, could IMO only work if it would based on 'firm'. Idea is not appearing open to cult of audiophiles, which could create hostile environment for objective discussion.

Quote from: ajinfla on
Quote from: JamesHunt on
The main issue appears to be that most people don't read the terms of service.
That isn't the forum, or members problem. Any more than comprehension thereof.

Quote from: JamesHunt on
In the end, TOS #8 surfaces again and again in conversations like this

Quote from: Webdrifter on
I totally agree with this forums demand for prove. And as an "academic" I strongly believe in double-blind testing.
I also have my doubt on various claims in the audio-branch.
That's why I don't just read ad's but visit forums in the hope that people with "live listening experience" with certain components can advise me on that.
I agree to disagree, my opinion that as long as there is this 'leakage' that is needed to dealt with on forum, there is issue, like very example in your quoted, problem exists.

Quote from: ajinfla on
Right. Believers may pay it some lip service from time to time, like above. Then go right on believing, like above.
Good luck with your "education" approach.
I posted basic model in the very post you quoted. That approach is actually used in online education and unless you comment that, I don't know what here is to discuss.

Re: Best price/value DAC's

Reply #106 –
You did 15 posts in 9 years and now want to educate others how they should do their posting with new members so Hydrogen fits your flavor?
Is troll-adiposity coming from feederism?
With 24bit music you can listen to silence much louder!

Re: Best price/value DAC's

Reply #107 –
Quote from: pelmazo on
You should take into account that some people are quicker than others in recognizing it. If you have dealt with audiophiles for years or even decades, you know the patterns.

Mm, good point. I hadn't thought of that and will keep it in mind. I have a lot less experience than most of the regulars here.

Re: Best price/value DAC's

Reply #108 –
Quote from: Wombat on
You did 15 posts in 9 years and now want to educate others how they should do their posting with new members so Hydrogen fits your flavor?
Nowhere I have said what Hydrogenaudio _should_ do. I have simply brought options how to work with new members. I have wrote that is up to community to decide _if_ anything should be done.

FYI: In general, I'm not taking part in meta conversations like this. What next, would ABX test results validity evaluated based on post count? Unless there's discussion about content, as far as I'm concerned, there is nothing to discuss.

Re: Best price/value DAC's

Reply #109 –
Quote from: JamesHunt on
Nowhere I have said what Hydrogenaudio _should_ do. I have simply brought options how to work with new members. I have wrote that is up to community to decide _if_ anything should be done.

Consider leading the process of education by your example? Goodness knows I'm not having much success, but perhaps you are better at such things than I.

Re: Best price/value DAC's

Reply #111 –
A topic stemmed from a discussion started by a person who was banned for violating TOS12 with a history of concern trolling. Let's also not ignore the 20 pages fueled by TOS8 evasion which ensued by a member who still unapologetically operates from placebo.

Re: Best price/value DAC's

Reply #113 –
Quote from: 4season on
Quote from: JamesHunt on
Nowhere I have said what Hydrogenaudio _should_ do. I have simply brought options how to work with new members. I have wrote that is up to community to decide _if_ anything should be done.
Consider leading the process of education by your example? Goodness knows I'm not having much success, but perhaps you are better at such things than I.
I might try, but then there are times when I check Hydrogenaudio daily, then there are times I dont.  What comes to gear discussion in general, it's just a bit different where my focus is. Not to advertise any brand, gear from known brands are in general deemed good enough what comes to sound quality. What is discussed is more about versatility, durability, set up time and reselling value than anything else. What comes to home / portable audio I haven't bought new gear for ages but JBL Pebbles because I wanted something mobile that takes it's power just from laptop and I was a bit curious. Yeah, they work like that, one less psu and cables to carry, and that's the only thing I'm willing to say about them.

Quote from: Porcus on
This is hardly a new discussion either.  I really think xnor was right about this thread: https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,111392.0.html
That's the reason why I brought my thoughts in this conversation. This circle of discussion has been seen many times before. And there are always the same points made preserving environment and being nicer and while appearing harsh may reflect poorly to community, then being nicer could be worse, opening doors to people shilling their 'audiophile quality optical cables' and other nonsense and their cult followers.
What solution there could be, what the actual needs are., for what I seen I can only repeat that instead becoming a friendly or nicer, whatever that is, becoming mentors could break the cycle and at the same time actually create more welcoming environment.

But it would take some effort, what I tried to convey when I shared my own experience in my earlier posts. Would it be worth it because of a few individuals, don't know, but taking lurker factor in account too, which still is influence, maybe and if it would attract more contributors. Then yes, considering most of the pieces are already here, yes it might be worth it,


But no point repeating what I have already posted, but few more thoughts which motivated me to participate this time.

Even it's been years since I have met audiophiles IRL and what I read from social media, for me it looks there are audiophiles and then there are just misinformed people who subscript to cult because cults appear more welcoming and company shills have these so called people (marketing) skills. However, after all I think most people stay in reasonable budgets and if music have huge entertaining factor for them, nothing wrong in getting decent equipment.

Then, there are people whom with discussion starts to feel there is something off... Not my place to take the stage really, but I can say lot's of music is born in living room couches with just acoustic instruments and singing. What evolves from there that goes to setlist or albums, regardless from genre, I don't think there are many who pay attention to how it should be listened to.  Maybe there are things like throwing a party, dancing, having fun or maybe certain troubadour aspects etc.

But spending ridiculous sums of money to audiophile cat-cable? It's lot of money that could be spent in events and for years there are many sorts of them, also events families with kids can attend to, or buying albums. Then at some point I read about autism and reflecting that towards my past experience and nowadays when I read thread like this, I can't but wonder, what if that actually is a factor? What if some of these people actually have something that comes also with severe learning disadvantage?

I don't know if this is topic that is conversed in social media, but in general people are more aware and attitudes have changed a lot. It's a bit like with ethnicity thing. Humour and manners in dealing with those matters that were acceptable couple of decades ago, just don't fly any more.

Obviously there are different cultures here, but if it is a possibility that things go awry because new member might actually be a retard, no matter what I suggested taking models from education, you might want to at least consider what was suggested in post #98. At least show their towards other other forums or something in a briefly manner.

It doesn't has to be anything to do with nice, or caring about possible disadvantages. It's just that making process longer than and poking fun people who may have serious difficulties doesn't look good.