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Topic: Yamaha DS-XG vs Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 (LT or not) (Read 10214 times) previous topic - next topic
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Yamaha DS-XG vs Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 (LT or not)

Hey there fellow audiophiles (or stereophiles , parden my ignorance I'm just a visual artist  ).

I'm a very heavy music listener, infact music is a big part of my workflow. I usually listen to standard mp3 files of variouse bit rates.

Now here is my little story. Long long time ago at the time of 1997 or something I bought a brand new spanking sound card for my computer - it was a Yamaha DS-XG ! Few years after it was forgotten since a new PC was bought, back in that time I didn't really spend much time on the computer yet let alone listen to music. How ever a year ago when I got Final Fantasy 7 ost I sudenly remmembered playing the demo of that game that came with the sound card and being totally blown away how awsome the music sounded. So I found the pc, dusted of the card, pluged it in and managed to find some XP drivers for it. Holy god did I get blown away by how amazing it still sounded, the on board sound of the mobo was eons away from the standard this thing was outputting.

So ever since then I've become a bit of an audiophile, on board or sound balster will not cut it for me anymore.

So is it worth trying to find and dig up the Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 (/LT?) (based on the Envy24HT thing)

Currently my Yamaha has probably no EAX support or so, most probably will never see a 64 bit os compatible driver (I have AMD 64), produces sound that is eons above that of on board and sound blaster Live, has two line-out ports (one normal or something) the other is amplified (headphones amp?) since my head phones get amazing base from it and the general volume is increased x10 (so I have them on one bar vol  ).

So yeah here is my question to all of you's audiphiles - will the Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 provide better sound? Should I try to get it? or is there some other soundcard that will give me better sound?

I am using Sony MDR-CD280 headphones not really sure how good they are, but hey they work and have good sound.

Thank you in advance for your advice!

Yamaha DS-XG vs Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 (LT or not)

Reply #1 –
I also have a DS-XG and I'm getting a Chaintech AV710 (which also uses the Envy24HT controller with a WM8728 DAC) so I'll be able to give you my opinion when it arrives.

Yamaha DS-XG vs Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 (LT or not)

Reply #2 –
Ok Defsca I'll be looking forward to it.

Yamaha DS-XG vs Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 (LT or not)

Reply #3 –
Didn't know DS-XG was so "populair"
I got one too and since yamaha stopped its driver support  the winxp drivers suck bigtime .  I sometimes have to restart the comp to get sound from it. If i were you i would buy a new card, since yamaha will nver release a new driver for it again.

I have been looking for a replacement but everywhere i look is Creative, and only Creative. Some shops have a 10 buck oem card which is just as bad. It seems creative pretty much nocked out all competition in my country.

Anyway, im also very interested how the new one performs

Yamaha DS-XG vs Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 (LT or not)

Reply #4 –
Strange I don't have any problems with my WinXP driver, it works flawlessly! It's called dsxgxp and it's around 4mb. I think it might be a wdm driver or something? Anyway you can download it HERE(my own net acount  ).

Yep I have same sound card buying problem here, nothing apart from creative and you'd be lucky to dig up a decent creative card at that too. I work at a computer shop myself as a tech and to see someone actually get a sound card like Creative or some cheapo one is VERY rare, most people seem to be fine with onboard 

So I'm looking forward to see how these new sound cards perform against the almighty DS-XG! I really don't want to downgrade in sound quality.

[span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%']EDIT: fixed some typos![/span]

Yamaha DS-XG vs Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 (LT or not)

Reply #5 –
Quote
Strange I don't have any problems with my WinXP driver, it works flawlessly! It's called dsxgxp and it's around 4mb. I think it might be a wdm driver or something? Anyway you can download it HERE(my own net acount  ).

Yep I have same sound card buying problem here, nothing apart from creative and you'd be lucky to dig up a decent creative card at that too. I work at a computer shop myself as a tech and to see someone actually get a sound card like Creative or some cheapo one is VERY rare, most people seem to be fine with onboard 

So I'm looking forward to see how these new sound cards perform against the almighty DS-XG! I really don't want to downgrade in sound quality.

[span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%']EDIT: fixed some typos![/span]
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=307400"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Thx for the link, ill try it tomorow
My problem is pretty strange,  sometimes my soundcard just doesnt work. When i play an mp3 in winamp, winamp just freezes after 2 secs  . It might be related to hibernating winxp, but im not  sure. I also got an onboard card, and when i hookup my headophone on it, i can hear strange noices when the processor is working . So im not to hapy about that either.

Yamaha DS-XG vs Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 (LT or not)

Reply #6 –
Heh that's a pretty weird problem, to me it sounds like that you mainboard might not be liking the DS-XG, I'd try the drivers, if no go try moving the card to a diferent PCI slot/ moving other PCI devices around.

Yamaha DS-XG vs Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 (LT or not)

Reply #7 –
Quote
Heh that's a pretty weird problem, to me it sounds like that you mainboard might not be liking the DS-XG, I'd try the drivers, if no go try moving the card to a diferent PCI slot/ moving other PCI devices around.
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I might try putting it in an other pci port, but i just found a shop in my country where they sell the audiotek prodigy, so i think i just buy that one...... IF the results are good that is.  I hope the shop has one in stock since i could find only one shop that has it. I would also like the digital in from the prodigy non LT but that is even harder to find so i think ill just take the lt version

BTW in win98 i could get sensaura audio (or something like that) with the old drivers from yamaha, do you have sensaura on winxp? It doesnt really matter, but im just curious .

Yamaha DS-XG vs Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 (LT or not)

Reply #8 –
No I don't, these are like bare bone drivers that give just enough for windows to recognise the device and make it work properly.

Oh and yeah I'm looking forward to hearing your impression of how well it performs!

Yamaha DS-XG vs Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 (LT or not)

Reply #9 –
Im waiting for the result of Defsac since his new card has the same dsp as the prodigy. He can compare it with the XG so ill know what im getting into . The shop i found  still hasnt answered so i get the fealing they are kind of slow in everything.

Yamaha DS-XG vs Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 (LT or not)

Reply #10 –
I received the AV-710 earlier today. I removed my YMF724 (DS-XG) from my current system and installed it in a near identical system (3ghz Pentium 4 processor, P4P800 motherboard, Antec TruePower 430w PSU). I then installed YMFTools and enabled "High quality 44.1 kHz Mode".

After installing the AV-710 into my current system and obtaining the latest Via drivers, I launched foobar2000 and enabled SSRC to 96kHz in slow mode and set resolution to padded 24 bit as per the guide. I connected my Kenwood KA-74 integrated amplifier to the YMF724 and plugged my Sennheiser HD-590s into the amplifier.

I then conducted a simple blind test in which a friend switched a 3.5mm to 2xRCA lead between the sound cards and I compared the same source material. This was not to attempt to test the quality objectively, as such a thing is impossible, but to reduce placebo effect as much as possible. In all samples I considered the AV-710 playback to be superior quality. I don't know if the higher end DS-XG models are better quality, but I believe they use the same DAC. The quality difference isn't as large as the P4P800's onboard sound vs. the YMF724, but there's definitely a perceivable difference.

Edit: I also noticed the volume control bug has not been removed from the Via drivers, but it's not a huge issue for me as I use the amplifier's volume control.

Yamaha DS-XG vs Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 (LT or not)

Reply #11 –
Ow cool! That's some very good things to hear!  I'm going to start looking for the Audiotrack prodigy 7.1 card. One thing, which one should I go for? They say LT offers slightly better sound since there is minimal electrical interference. Either way I wonder how much trouble will I have to go through to find mine. 

Also the Yamaha DS-XG card I have is the WF-192XG one, no idea where it stands compared to the other onse. Any one know? Also why did yamaha drop the development of sound cards?

Anyway cool, thanks for the usefull information!

Yamaha DS-XG vs Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 (LT or not)

Reply #12 –
Quote
Ow cool! That's some very good things to hear!   I'm going to start looking for the Audiotrack prodigy 7.1 card. One thing, which one should I go for? They say LT offers slightly better sound since there is minimal electrical interference. Either way I wonder how much trouble will I have to go through to find mine. 

Also the Yamaha DS-XG card I have is the WF-192XG one, no idea where it stands compared to the other onse. Any one know? Also why did yamaha drop the development of sound cards?

Anyway cool, thanks for the usefull information!
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=308972"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]



I believe the non LT is very hard to get in some countries, so maybe you dont realy have a choice. I would prefer the non LT since it has a digital in, and you never know when you might need it . But since that one is impossible to get where i live, i think i just go for the LT.

Yamaha DS-XG vs Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 (LT or not)

Reply #13 –
I saw the normal one in an aus online store, $299 AUS so yeah.... might need to do some saving up hee hee.

Yamaha DS-XG vs Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 (LT or not)

Reply #14 –
Quote
After installing the AV-710 into my current system and obtaining the latest Via drivers, I launched foobar2000 and enabled SSRC to 96kHz in slow mode and set resolution to padded 24 bit as per the guide.[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=308964"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hmm... Pardon me, but what's the point of using a resampler ? Your new card does not resample, so SSRC is unncecessary. You won't improve the quality this way - unless there is some quirk in AV-710, which prevents it from working correctly in any mode apart from 96 kHz one.

Yamaha DS-XG vs Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 (LT or not)

Reply #15 –
Quote
Hmm... Pardon me, but what's the point of using a resampler ? Your new card does not resample, so SSRC is unncecessary. You won't improve the quality this way - unless there is some quirk in AV-710, which prevents it from working correctly in any mode apart from 96 kHz one.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=309016"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You have to feed the card a 24 bit 96kHz (or better) source for it to output through the WM DAC. If you give it 44.1kHz 16 bit in Kernel Streaming it will not output at all in it's high resolution mode.

You don't have to resample using kMixer (DirectSound or waveOut) because it will resample for you, but I doubt the resampling is as good as SSRC. Even at it's native sample rate kMixer will modify the sound. By using Kernel Streaming and SSRC to 96kHz in slow mode we are minimizing quality loss as much as possible.

Yamaha DS-XG vs Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 (LT or not)

Reply #16 –
Hmm... As far as I know, you don't have to resample anything with AV-710. The high quality Wolfson DAC is connected to the 7/8 speaker output, so it is being used only when you connect your amp/speakers/headphones to that output, regardless of samplerate and other parameters.  What you describe, sounds a lot like the case of Audigy 2, which has two sound chips and the "good" one is being used only with >= 48 kHz & >= 24 bit data (I believe I read about it here).

It's not meant as an attack - I think you were misled by someone... 

BTW, I read somewhere (head-fi.org ?), that there is an on-board amplifier on AV-710, which can be disabled by setting an appropriate jumper. Maybe it's worth a try also.

Regards,
MTM

Yamaha DS-XG vs Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 (LT or not)

Reply #17 –
Quote
It's not meant as an attack - I think you were misled by someone...

Have a read of the guides below. As I said, you don't have to resample using SSRC unless you're using ASIO or KS. If you're using waveOut or DirectSound, kMixer will resample the source audio to 24 bit 96 kHz - it needs to do this so it can mix the sound properly. SSRC is a better quality resampler than kMixer, especially in slow mode, so it's preferable to use it instead through KS (according to the guide, even if foobar2000's output is the correct resolution and sample rate kMixer still introduces loss).

Quote
Even if source and destination format are the same [kMixer] will strip the last 1 or 2 bits resulting in inferior dynamic range (by a few dB). Because in 24bit mode the theoretical dynamic range is so high, some people might not even be able to tell the difference with non high-end equipment.


Quote
BTW, I read somewhere (head-fi.org ?), that there is an on-board amplifier on AV-710, which can be disabled by setting an appropriate jumper. Maybe it's worth a try also.

This doesn't make any difference in high resolution mode - see section 8 of the revised guide.

Original guide over at head-fi
Revised version by head-fi user Guust-Fi.

Yamaha DS-XG vs Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 (LT or not)

Reply #18 –
http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=125466

It seems if you set it correctly in the control panel, the 7/8 output will still output sound without needing to set to High Sample Rate mode and you don't have to resample to 96KHz in Foobar and still able to use KS output.

Yamaha DS-XG vs Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 (LT or not)

Reply #19 –
Quote
It seems if you set it correctly in the control panel, the 7/8 output will still output sound without needing to set to High Sample Rate mode and you don't have to resample to 96KHz in Foobar and still able to use KS output.[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=309795"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That's what I read. Thanks, Wish.

Yamaha DS-XG vs Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 (LT or not)

Reply #20 –
Quote
http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=125466

It seems if you set it correctly in the control panel, the 7/8 output will still output sound without needing to set to High Sample Rate mode and you don't have to resample to 96KHz in Foobar and still able to use KS output.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=309795"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That's interesting. I just tried it and it does indeed output correctly through channels 7&8. I'm fairly certain it uses the WM DAC as electrically the VIA AC-97 DAC seems to have no connection to the 7&8 output jack. I'm also curious as to why the guides recommend high resolution mode, VIA has only recently enabled this feature with the new drivers.