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Topic: JazzGroove.org Sound Quality (Read 3263 times) previous topic - next topic
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JazzGroove.org Sound Quality

Hi all,
I'm trying to figure out what kind of DSP/filter jazzgroove.org is using in order to get such "crystal clear" and three dimensional sound (at least to my ears).

Their stream doesn't sound like overly EQ'ed. Vocals, instrument separation, dynamics and clarity all the desirable aspects of the SQ are exceptional to my ears. After starting to listen their FLAC stream via premium membership, I couldn't get any similar taste from my FLAC archive anymore. It is addictive. I'm mostly listening them and it seems that if I couldn't figure out what are they doing, my archive will not get so much listen anymore.

This is my first message in this forum btw.

Re: JazzGroove.org Sound Quality

Reply #1 –
Their DSP might be browser side.

Re: JazzGroove.org Sound Quality

Reply #2 –
Quote from: kode54 on
Their DSP might be browser side.
I don't think so because their direct stream link sounds same except a bit less on volume.

Re: JazzGroove.org Sound Quality

Reply #3 –
Did you see this?

They even say that, in order to get the so called surround sound on phones, you have to download an app.
Listen to the music, not the media it's on.
União e reconstrução

Re: JazzGroove.org Sound Quality

Reply #4 –
Plus, the FLAC stream isn't surround. You must listen to their specific AAC 5.1 320k stream to get surround. Also, only stream #1 is available in surround. All this I gleaned from reading the above linked page.

Re: JazzGroove.org Sound Quality

Reply #5 –
Quote from: includemeout on
Did you see this?

They even say that, in order to get the so called surround sound on phones, you have to download an app.

Thanks for reply but I listen 2 channel FLAC as @kode54  mentioned and my observation has nothing to do with 5.1 multichannel option which is not available for me. I have no interest on that surround multichannel thing.

Re: JazzGroove.org Sound Quality

Reply #6 –
Ask them. Apparently, they only apply processing to their lossy streams.

Re: JazzGroove.org Sound Quality

Reply #7 –
Quote
I'm trying to figure out what kind of DSP/filter jazzgroove.org is using in order to get such "crystal clear" and three dimensional sound (at least to my ears).
Are you sure they are doing anything?    Do you own the same-exact recordings to compare?

Re: JazzGroove.org Sound Quality

Reply #8 –
Quote from: kode54 on
Ask them. Apparently, they only apply processing to their lossy streams.

I already asked them and they confirmed that they're doing some proprietary special process in order to get that  sound. I think they invested some special gear for tuning the sound. I don't listen lossy formats at all, only FLAC. But at the beginning, their "free" lossy stream made me to go for premium membership which is quite affordable.

Quote from: DVDdoug on
Quote
I'm trying to figure out what kind of DSP/filter jazzgroove.org is using in order to get such "crystal clear" and three dimensional sound (at least to my ears).
Are you sure they are doing anything?    Do you own the same-exact recordings to compare?

I'm quite sure because it is obvious. When compared for same tracks for same release on Amazon HD Music, Amazon HD sounds like just how regular digital media sounds like. I'm not saying it is bad but it is just like what as it is. JazzGroove.org other side, is more like an unknown type of analog media is rolling. For instance, similar to the vinyl but lacks of its all handicaps.

Re: JazzGroove.org Sound Quality

Reply #9 –
Like I said, they're probably only applying the processing to their lossy tracks, and offering the FLAC unmodified.

Re: JazzGroove.org Sound Quality

Reply #10 –
Quote from: kode54 on
Like I said, they're probably only applying the processing to their lossy tracks, and offering the FLAC unmodified.
I'm trying to say otherwise. I can hear the same processing from lossy formats too.
I have no idea about how did you get that idea.. are you a member too?

It also doesn't make sense for discarding their premium FLAC stream for such striking quality.

Re: JazzGroove.org Sound Quality

Reply #11 –
Fine, then your computer is doing it. But only to lossy formats, not lossless.

Re: JazzGroove.org Sound Quality

Reply #12 –
Quote from: kode54 on
Fine, then your computer is doing it. But only to lossy formats, not lossless.
Sorry but you have no idea what I'm talking about sir...
I think that that you have some serious problems with making a good sense.
Please stop flooding my thread.

Re: JazzGroove.org Sound Quality

Reply #13 –
They are streaming company. They have thousands of songs on their servers.
They didn't invest into any special gear. It's just not worth it. They are simply using DSPs.

I decided to compare them with Spotify. (Only one song. I am too lazy to do more tests.)
It is safe to assume that both of them were using the same master/source file.
I immediately noticed the differences that you mentioned.

JazzGroove's version has wider stereo, more noise, increased bass and it sounds louder.

- You can achieve wider stereo with various DSPs/plugins.
- You can make song louder by using compressor.
- By using Audacity's Plot Spectrum tool, I can see that they
  increased volume for frequencies up to ~120 Hz
  decreased volume for frequencies from ~120 Hz to ~4000 Hz
  increased volume for frequencies above ~4000 Hz
  You will need to play with equalizer.
- Lots of noise. Noise can help to mask cracks and pops.

Not a single person here can give you the exact settings they were using.
You will need to do some testing by yourself and decide what sounds best for you.
gold plated toslink fan

Re: JazzGroove.org Sound Quality

Reply #14 –
Quote from: Markuza97 on
They are streaming company. They have thousands of songs on their servers.
They didn't invest into any special gear. It's just not worth it. They are simply using DSPs.

I decided to compare them with Spotify. (Only one song. I am too lazy to do more tests.)
It is safe to assume that both of them were using the same master/source file.
I immediately noticed the differences that you mentioned.

JazzGroove's version has wider stereo, more noise, increased bass and it sounds louder.

- You can achieve wider stereo with various DSPs/plugins.
- You can make song louder by using compressor.
- By using Audacity's Plot Spectrum tool, I can see that they
  increased volume for frequencies up to ~120 Hz
  decreased volume for frequencies from ~120 Hz to ~4000 Hz
  increased volume for frequencies above ~4000 Hz
  You will need to play with equalizer.
- Lots of noise. Noise can help to mask cracks and pops.

Not a single person here can give you the exact settings they were using.
You will need to do some testing by yourself and decide what sounds best for you.

Thanks for doing such comparison. When I was referring "gear", I meant a dedicated computer for doing DSP.

I'm suspicious about EQ settings and added noise as you mentioned. If EQ applied to 120-4000Hz range,  vocals would sound muffled and recessed but it is quite opposite. Vocals, especially midrange are prominent and making very good of clarity compared to the regular FLAC files. Vocals have some strange "spacious" character. Vocals in regular FLAC files sound "flat" in comparison.

I don't know how did you resolve the "noise" issue and I have no idea how did you relate it. It is quite common thing to use dithering when doing DSP. If you are talking about some other kind of audible noise, I would disagree on that since there is no such excessive or audible noise on quite passages. Old recordings already have some hiss naturally but modern ones completely silent on quite/silent passages.

Additionally, there are direct FLAC streaming links available for members who prefers listening on their streamers etc. This stream has same sound character but not louder (about -12dB lower) as web based streaming. They somehow decided to stream louder on web.

Re: JazzGroove.org Sound Quality

Reply #15 –
I decided to do one more test. Jazz Groove and Spotify.
I simply recorded both of them using the Audacity. I am not subscriber/premium user.
JazzGroove is using 128 kbit/s AAC and Spotify is also using 128 kbit/s AAC?
(Off topic: I never used streaming services - but if my memory serves me right - I remember Spotify using 160 kbit/s Vorbis?)
Anyway, format is not really important for this quick test.

Let's start with compression. Both files were normalized to -14 LUFS so they should be equally loud.



Effects of compressor are clearly visible on Jazz Groove's track.

Let's compare them using Plot Spectrum tool. Jazz Groove on top, Spotify on bottom.





You are correct. I made a mistake. It seems like they only boosted lower and higher frequencies. This is what happens when you try to do test at 2 o'clock in the morning.

I uploaded two ~30 second samples here if somebody wants to experiment with them. Hiss is much stronger on Jazz Groove's version.

But I am seriously impressed with how "wide" their music is. It literally brings life to music. They must be using some very good DSPs.
gold plated toslink fan

Re: JazzGroove.org Sound Quality

Reply #16 –
Quote from: Markuza97 on
But I am seriously impressed with how "wide" their music is. It literally brings life to music. They must be using some very good DSPs.

Thanks you for detailed analysis.

I think that most people chasing for such sound when they regularly "upgrade" their audio gear: DACs, amplifiers, speakers etc. but ending up in dissatisfaction and looking for another upgrade..and so on. It is quite interesting to get such sound by just doing DSP.

Vocals are on Gems channel, if anyone curious about what vocals sound like. If you listen vocals channel on a good system with speakers, you will know what is impressive about their stream at most.