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Topic: Best place to find reviews of multiple remasters of older albums (Read 11869 times) previous topic - next topic
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Best place to find reviews of multiple remasters of older albums

I posed this question inside another thread, and the Steve Hoffman Forums was recommended as a good source.

I created an account and have been happily posting there, but I find that the forum is very heavily vinyl and SACD leaning.  I'm reading through a thread to see what is the best release of Heartbeat City by The Cars, and had to go through almost 3 pages of people complaining that there is no good CD release and that the best release is the A&M LP from the 80s.

Are there other music forums people use for research on which remaster of older albums to buy?

I think that Steve Hoffman Forums has definite value, but I'd like another source to compare and contrast against.

Best place to find reviews of multiple remasters of older albums

Reply #1 –
Quote from: apastuszak on
I created an account and have been happily posting there, but I find that the forum is very heavily vinyl and SACD leaning.  I'm reading through a thread to see what is the best release of Heartbeat City by The Cars, and had to go through almost 3 pages of people complaining that there is no good CD release and that the best release is the A&M LP from the 80s.


I'm interested too and generally agree with your impression of Hoffman's forum. Once I had my ignore list finely tuned (way over 100, lol), I've enjoyed it though. What's good is that there's no shortage of opinions. You just have to read between the lines and get to know the community. Usually I can find a consensus on which releases to avoid, at least.

OT but related, I don't really get what's wrong with the original CD release of that title. I think I have an old (West) German disc, red target design, which sounds fine to me. Mofi will be releasing a hybrid SACD of this soon, give or take 1-3 years of course... Judging by their other Cars remasters, it will probably sound good.
http://www.musicdirect.com/p-259214-the-ca...ybrid-sacd.aspx

Best place to find reviews of multiple remasters of older albums

Reply #2 –
Quote from: Hotsoup on
Quote from: apastuszak on
I created an account and have been happily posting there, but I find that the forum is very heavily vinyl and SACD leaning.  I'm reading through a thread to see what is the best release of Heartbeat City by The Cars, and had to go through almost 3 pages of people complaining that there is no good CD release and that the best release is the A&M LP from the 80s.


I'm interested too and generally agree with your impression of Hoffman's forum. Once I had my ignore list finely tuned (way over 100, lol), I've enjoyed it though. What's good is that there's no shortage of opinions. You just have to read between the lines and get to know the community. Usually I can find a consensus on which releases to avoid, at least.

OT but related, I don't really get what's wrong with the original CD release of that title. I think I have an old (West) German disc, red target design, which sounds fine to me. Mofi will be releasing a hybrid SACD of this soon, give or take 1-3 years of course... Judging by their other Cars remasters, it will probably sound good.
http://www.musicdirect.com/p-259214-the-ca...ybrid-sacd.aspx


I just hate the idea of paying SACD prices for something that is the same quality as CD to the human ear.

Best place to find reviews of multiple remasters of older albums

Reply #3 –
Quote from: apastuszak on
I just hate the idea of paying SACD prices for something that is the same quality as CD to the human ear.
True, I don't disagree. It's kind of a steep premium, even for an improved mastering, which is certainly debatable. You can typically find newer Mofi discs for around $28 on Amazon. They may be cheaper elsewhere? I'd still suggest trying the original CD. The DR database suggests the US release is digitally the same as other countries' releases. It could probably be found for a dollar or two.

Best place to find reviews of multiple remasters of older albums

Reply #4 –
Quote from: Hotsoup on
Quote from: apastuszak on
I just hate the idea of paying SACD prices for something that is the same quality as CD to the human ear.
True, I don't disagree. It's kind of a steep premium, even for an improved mastering, which is certainly debatable. You can typically find newer Mofi discs for around $28 on Amazon. They may be cheaper elsewhere? I'd still suggest trying the original CD. The DR database suggests the US release is digitally the same as other countries' releases. It could probably be found for a dollar or two.


I have the original CD already.  I don't have the West German Target release that seems to be praised.  But it is a US release from the 80s.  I was so happy when I finally bought a CD player in the late 80s and never had to do another needle drop onto vinyl again.

Best place to find reviews of multiple remasters of older albums

Reply #5 –
Quote from: apastuszak on
I have the original CD already.  I don't have the West German Target release that seems to be praised.  But it is a US release from the 80s.
Looks to be the same:
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/101118
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/20221

Another reason to be extremely skeptical of preferences over there at Hoffman's..

Best place to find reviews of multiple remasters of older albums

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Hotsoup on
Quote from: apastuszak on
I have the original CD already.  I don't have the West German Target release that seems to be praised.  But it is a US release from the 80s.
Looks to be the same:
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/101118
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/20221

Another reason to be extremely skeptical of preferences over there at Hoffman's..


True.

The sheer volume of stuff on there is mind boggling.  There will be an announcement that a new remaster of some album is coming out in 2 months, and there will be a 20 page discussion before the album is even released.

I have learned that my "preference" seems to be what I am used to.  I got the Station To Station boxed set and found that I liked the original master much better than the remaster.  The only album I have heard that I like better than the original was the Steve Wilson remix of Jethro Tull's Aqualung.

Best place to find reviews of multiple remasters of older albums

Reply #7 –
It seems like RateYourMusic.com would be ideal, but I pulled up Heartbeat City and most of the reviews are for the primary release and discuss the music, not so much the audio quality (which is fine). There are options to review specific releases though.
http://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/the...heartbeat_city/

If a site like that had more traffic and more of the discussion was on sound quality comparisons, I'd forget Hoffman's board.. Maybe we'll get some other suggestions.

Best place to find reviews of multiple remasters of older albums

Reply #8 –
Quote from: Hotsoup on
It seems like RateYourMusic.com would be ideal, but I pulled up Heartbeat City and most of the reviews are for the primary release and discuss the music, not so much the audio quality (which is fine). There are options to review specific releases though.
http://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/the...heartbeat_city/

If a site like that had more traffic and more of the discussion was on sound quality comparisons, I'd forget Hoffman's board.. Maybe we'll get some other suggestions.


Or maybe we could roll our own.  Running a forum is a LOT of work, though.  Don't know if I have the time.

Re: Best place to find reviews of multiple remasters of older albums

Reply #9 –
My days of using the Steve Hoffman forums are over.  I was banned last week, and I still don't know why.  It says I violated the terms of service.  I can't view the terms of service, because you need to be logged in to see them.  I could go create another account and pretend to be someone else, but I'm not that kind of guy,

Re: Best place to find reviews of multiple remasters of older albums

Reply #10 –
It's not easy to find reliable information on different masters and remasters, sometimes you can Google up some decent information, but often you just can't find anything at all.

And sometimes you just have to take a chance on a remaster, or be really lucky that the remasters have been done by someone who is known for good sound quality and for not kow-towing to demands for "more louder!". Take for instance the 40th Anniversary Editions of the first Jethro Tull albums. I already had Aqualung on CD, but that version sounds a bit muffled. When I heard that Steven Wilson had done the 40th Anniversary Edition remaster, I didn't hesitate to order it, and it sounds amazing, so much clearer and more detailed than the old CD.

DR for the title track on the new CD is 13 IIRC, compared to 15 for the old CD, but that's a really minor difference and the overall sound quality is so much better.

Incidentally, the old CD hovers right around "perfect" by Replaygain standards, most tracks are within +/- 1dB correction. The new one averages around -4dB or so.

Re: Best place to find reviews of multiple remasters of older albums

Reply #11 –
Quote from: KozmoNaut on
It's not easy to find reliable information on different masters and remasters, sometimes you can Google up some decent information, but often you just can't find anything at all.

And sometimes you just have to take a chance on a remaster, or be really lucky that the remasters have been done by someone who is known for good sound quality and for not kow-towing to demands for "more louder!". Take for instance the 40th Anniversary Editions of the first Jethro Tull albums. I already had Aqualung on CD, but that version sounds a bit muffled. When I heard that Steven Wilson had done the 40th Anniversary Edition remaster, I didn't hesitate to order it, and it sounds amazing, so much clearer and more detailed than the old CD.

DR for the title track on the new CD is 13 IIRC, compared to 15 for the old CD, but that's a really minor difference and the overall sound quality is so much better.

Incidentally, the old CD hovers right around "perfect" by Replaygain standards, most tracks are within +/- 1dB correction. The new one averages around -4dB or so.

The Steve Wilson Aqualung remix is amazing.  I also noticed a lower DR value in the database, with a huge increase in sound quality.  Small changes in DR value are probably file, and could happen naturally with digital cleanup.  I was looking at Hotel California by The Eagles, and it seems that the Steve Hoffman DCC remaster is praised as the best version of that album.  The original CD has a DR value of 14 and the Hoffman remaster has a value of 12.  That seems OK.

But I went and looked up the album 4 by Foreigner.  The original CD has a value of 12.  The remaster has a value of 9.  That's bad.  And Goodbye Yellow Brick Road by Elton John has a DR value of 13.  The 40th anniversary remaster has a value of 9.

Re: Best place to find reviews of multiple remasters of older albums

Reply #12 –
I looked over some of your posts Apastuszak. Nothing stuck out to me as offensive? I can't imagine why they banned you.

Re: Best place to find reviews of multiple remasters of older albums

Reply #13 –
Maybe he did something sensible like request some objectivity or, heaven forbid, do something other than praise the work by the exalted one.

Re: Best place to find reviews of multiple remasters of older albums

Reply #14 –
I wonder how long it would take to get banned if you stuck (PBUH) behind every mention of His name.

Re: Best place to find reviews of multiple remasters of older albums

Reply #15 –
Quote from: greynol on
Maybe he did something sensible like request some objectivity or, heaven forbid, do something other than praise the work by the exalted one.
Could be, perhaps all this praise being heaped on Steven Wilson has incurred His jealous wrath.

Re: Best place to find reviews of multiple remasters of older albums

Reply #16 –
Ok, because I am a nosy b*****d, I went in in incognito mode on my browser.  The last thread I started got deleted.  I posted a question asking what happened to the masters done by Digital Compact Classics and Audio Fidelity.

I got a reply that those CDs are limited run CDs and the companies lost the license to distribute them.

So, I said that I understand that.  I wanted to know where the masters were.  Asked if there was pile of tapes and hard drives in Steve Hoffman's basement.

My curiosity stemmed from the fact that the site universally praised Steve Hoffman's digital remaster of The Eagles Hotel California and the finest version of that album.  With that disc selling for between $400-$600 dollars on eBay, any everyone praising it,  i was wondering why The Eagles record label didn't contact Mr. Hoffman and release that version instead of what they have coming out now.

I leave to go to the store and come back to a banned account.

I had originally thought that I was banned for a thread on Blu Spec CDs, where I said if it's a 16/44.1 digital CD, it doesn't matter if it's a SHM-CD, of Blu-Spec CD, they'll all sound the same if they're made from the same master using the same ma manufacturing process.  The media doesn't matter.

The thread on the Eagles Hotel California was amusing as heck.  As much as they praised the Steve Hoffman remaster, everyone kept saying that the true "gold standard" was the DVD-A release of the album, with all it's hi-res goodness.  Someone pointed out that the DVD-A is just the 1993 remaster that everyone hated so much in this thread.  His comment was completely ignored and the hi-res placebophile fan-fest continued.

It's been a week.  I'm over it.

As helpful as the site was at times, the constant praise for SACD, DVD-A and vinyl was getting old.

Re: Best place to find reviews of multiple remasters of older albums

Reply #17 –
Quote from: KozmoNaut on
Take for instance the 40th Anniversary Editions of the first Jethro Tull albums. I already had Aqualung on CD, but that version sounds a bit muffled. When I heard that Steven Wilson had done the 40th Anniversary Edition remaster, I didn't hesitate to order it, and it sounds amazing, so much clearer and more detailed than the old CD.

It's a remix.   That's a different beast  than a remaster.

Btw I think that version was also 'mastered' (by someone else), meaning that SW's own version, pre-mastering, has probably got a bit more dynamic range.  IIRC HDtracks has released the 'unmastered' (pre-mastering) version of it.


Re: Best place to find reviews of multiple remasters of older albums

Reply #18 –
Quote from: apastuszak on
Ok, because I am a nosy b*****d, I went in in incognito mode on my browser.  The last thread I started got deleted.  I posted a question asking what happened to the masters done by Digital Compact Classics and Audio Fidelity.

I got a reply that those CDs are limited run CDs and the companies lost the license to distribute them.

So, I said that I understand that.  I wanted to know where the masters were.  Asked if there was pile of tapes and hard drives in Steve Hoffman's basement.

LOL.  I'm sure you were banned for that.    You maybe didn't realize how close to home that quip may have hit.  Hoffman has gotten in trouble with record companies before for possessing tapes without permission.





Re: Best place to find reviews of multiple remasters of older albums

Reply #19 –
Quote from: krabapple on
I'm sure you were banned for that.
Lame!

Quote from: krabapple on
You maybe didn't realize how close to home that quip may have hit.
Wah!

Quote from: krabapple on
Hoffman has gotten in trouble with record companies before for possessing tapes without permission.
And he should have!


Hooray for snake oil!

Re: Best place to find reviews of multiple remasters of older albums

Reply #20 –
Life moves on.  This is a better place for discussions anyway.

Any time you have a subjective discussion about audio things devolve rather quickly any when the "golden ears" show up.   I have that problem on reddit.  You're saving a nice civil discussion and then some placebophile starts calling you an idiot because you're arguing against his extravagant purchasing decisions.

Now, trying to steer things back on topic....

My general method now, is to check the DR database at dr.loudness-wars.info.  Should there be more than a 3 point in difference in DR, I will listen to each release, if I can.  If there is a significant increase in loudness (as was the case with The Moody Blues), then I'm going to pass.  When there isn't (which is the case with Hotel California), then it's worth doing some more homework.

Pail McCartney's Pipes of Peace just came out digitally remastered as a 2 CD set.  It's DR value is only one point lower than the 1983 CD release.  I bought it.  I like sound of it, but i have nothing to compare it to, since I don't own the original release.  I'm trying to find a copy in the library somewhere, so I can compare the two.

I think 2016 will be the year when we start getting decent, non dynamically compressed masters.  Why?  Because it's something else they can sell you.  Now that we're digital, they really can't sell you on a new format.  So, the new frontier will be new masters.  They did it all through the 90s and 2000s, cranking up the volume.  I expect them to undo the damage now in an attempt to profit.

Re: Best place to find reviews of multiple remasters of older albums

Reply #21 –
Quote from: apastuszak on
My general method now, is to check the DR database at dr.loudness-wars.info.  Should there be more than a 3 point in difference in DR, I will listen to each release, if I can.  If there is a significant increase in loudness (as was the case with The Moody Blues), then I'm going to pass.  When there isn't (which is the case with Hotel California), then it's worth doing some more homework.
That's generally what I do if I'm skeptical of the original CD release. I wish it were an easy game of "check the DR numbers." I was just remembering the David Bowie Rykodisc remasters and how they all have pretty high DR numbers. They do nothing for me beyond that though. I remember Man Who Sold the World sounding pretty lifeless, no bass... There may be EQ moves that I would find more offensive than a little DRC.

Quote
This is a better place for discussions anyway.
I generally prefer this crowd to Hoffman's but it doesn't seem like many users here start these kinds of threads. Wasn't there one on Dark Side of the Moon a little while back? I don't remember there being much activity like that here. Otherwise, like I said earlier back, I'd ditch Hoffman's in a heartbeat. It's hard to keep reading how someone's Japan 32XD* release of Led Zeppelin II beats my digitally identical US disc, or how--even better--I haven't properly heard the album until I hear Bob Ludwig's vinyl on some other guy's system... But wait, download the new Davis remasters from HDracks, in high resolution, TO HEAR THE MOST DEFINITIVE VERSION OF ALL TIME. Sorry, I'll stop there.  :))



Re: Best place to find reviews of multiple remasters of older albums

Reply #22 –
The subjective nature of what may be the best remaster is probably what keeps HA members away from such discussions.

Re: Best place to find reviews of multiple remasters of older albums

Reply #24 –
Quote from: krabapple on
Quote from: KozmoNaut on
Take for instance the 40th Anniversary Editions of the first Jethro Tull albums. I already had Aqualung on CD, but that version sounds a bit muffled. When I heard that Steven Wilson had done the 40th Anniversary Edition remaster, I didn't hesitate to order it, and it sounds amazing, so much clearer and more detailed than the old CD.

It's a remix.   That's a different beast  than a remaster.

Btw I think that version was also 'mastered' (by someone else), meaning that SW's own version, pre-mastering, has probably got a bit more dynamic range.  IIRC HDtracks has released the 'unmastered' (pre-mastering) version of it.

You're right, it's a remix by Steven Wilson, and the CDs are mastered by Peter Mew, apparently. Still, I think they've both done a bang-on job. It would be interesting to compare with the "unmastered" version from HDTracks, but I'm not about to pay £16 for the privilege.