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Topic: So it's started: Lenovo/Moto announce phones without 3.5mm jack (Read 4289 times) previous topic - next topic
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So it's started: Lenovo/Moto announce phones without 3.5mm jack

http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/06/09/moto-z-doesnt-3-5mm-headphone-jack/

Not sure how I feel about this. Thinking about it, the only time nowadays I use the jack on my phone or tablet is with my QC25's and that's pretty much when I fly. But I feel kinda queasy about it. Using adapters is annoying. I know Bose just came out with the Bluetooth QC35, but even if I wanted to spend that kind of money on new headphones, I don't want to spend them on headphones with non-replaceable rechargeable batteries.

Re: So it's started: Lenovo/Moto announce phones without 3.5mm jack

Reply #1 –
Bad idea. 3,5 jack works well, is small and does not miss any significant audio features.

Re: So it's started: Lenovo/Moto announce phones without 3.5mm jack

Reply #2 –
Even worse, it's gonna be fragmented between Lightning and USB-C. Good times.

It's been said that the 3.5mm jack does occupy too much space in today's super-tight phone designs. I would think not so much in thickness, but in depth. Although some people have suggested that if they put another USB-C on the opposite side, it would be at least more functional. Add the alternate modes (Thunderbolt/Displayport, etc.) and USB-PD and I think I could live with that.

Although, again: http://www.anandtech.com/show/10273/intel-proposes-to-use-usb-typec-cables-to-connect-headsets-to-mobile-devices

If Intel gets away with that completely unnecessary new standard, expect HDCP-like DRM for USB-C audio connections. That would suuuuuck.

Re: So it's started: Lenovo/Moto announce phones without 3.5mm jack

Reply #3 –
I believe both Nokia and Samsung had phones without a 3.5 mm jack output years ago.

I don't know what to think of it. I know I was slightly hesitant when laptops started dropping optical drives yet on my laptop I now have to admit I use my optical drive perhaps once a year when I dust off some CD or DVD that contains something old I need.

It might mean that in a few years time most people, myself included, will just plug their headphones into a digital port instead of an analog port and don't think twice about it.
Every night with my star friends / We eat caviar and drink champagne
Sniffing in the VIP area / We talk about Frank Sinatra
Do you know Frank Sinatra? / He's dead

Re: So it's started: Lenovo/Moto announce phones without 3.5mm jack

Reply #4 –
I wonder if the DAC + related circuitry will add anything significant to the price of the headphones. No doubt audiophoolia will take advantage of this too. In the Anandtech article they mention USB-C is also capable of analog audio, though if I'm not mistaken it doesn't appear to support mic input (only 2 pins). So the DAC on phones, I guess take it out as well.

Re: So it's started: Lenovo/Moto announce phones without 3.5mm jack

Reply #5 –
I'm sure there's a big market for adaptors with the built in DAC etc now, no need to build it all into the headphones yet.

Re: So it's started: Lenovo/Moto announce phones without 3.5mm jack

Reply #6 –
I can already see a future market for headphones that are so terrible, the manufacturer includes their own integrated DAC that includes its own EQ profile internally applied to the signal it generates.

Re: So it's started: Lenovo/Moto announce phones without 3.5mm jack

Reply #8 –
Quote from: andy o on
I wonder if the DAC + related circuitry will add anything significant to the price of the headphones. No doubt audiophoolia will take advantage of this too. In the Anandtech article they mention USB-C is also capable of analog audio, though if I'm not mistaken it doesn't appear to support mic input (only 2 pins). So the DAC on phones, I guess take it out as well.

I'll bet money that at least some of the Bose headphones already have active DSP-based equalizers built in.  I suspect  building electronic equalization into the headphones has been held up by the fact that most headphones are passive, and don't have a ready source of power for the equalizer.

Putting active equalization into headphones is a good idea whose time seems to be  yet to come. The fact that even expensive headphone amps are mostly flat response, random response,  or have a highly simplistic equalizer (such as deep bass only) is a shame.

Re: So it's started: Lenovo/Moto announce phones without 3.5mm jack

Reply #9 –
At least my QC25 do sound significantly different (apparent smiley EQ) when the noise isolation is turned on.

I can see the benefit of moving the EQ to the headphones, even if it's a fixed one but tuned to them. What I'm worried about is them doing this to plug the last "analog hole" in A/V, and use this as an excuse to release another idiotic hardware DRM scheme.

Re: So it's started: Lenovo/Moto announce phones without 3.5mm jack

Reply #10 –
Seems like an excellent way to sell overpriced adapters and/or new "improved" headphones.
If my memory serves me, the 1/4" phone jack is well over 100 years old, and of course the full-sized devices can all be stepped down with an adapter.

"Improvement" thus appears to make >100 years of devices obsolete with the 'benefit' to the consumer being slightly smaller devices. Given that large-screened mobile phones are the trend, and the thinnest phones trade-off battery life, forcing an outboard DAC into the headphone end seems to have no clear value, other than perhaps avoiding cheap DACs on the device side (and paying extra for the privilege).

Re: So it's started: Lenovo/Moto announce phones without 3.5mm jack

Reply #11 –
I think the trend towards super thin laptops, phones, and tablets is a stupid one.  How much thinner does a device need to be?  Form over function for what?  To price gouge the consumer for things in the end because their too vain to see the error of their ways?

I'm happy with any phone that doesn't weigh more than a couple of pounds but I still want maximum functionality of the damn thing.

Super thin laptops without optical drives, touch keyboards and everything soldered on to the board including the battery is taking it too far.

Re: So it's started: Lenovo/Moto announce phones without 3.5mm jack

Reply #12 –
I felt a great disturbance in the Audio Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced by a Type-C port.  :o
EZ CD Audio Converter / FLAC or WavPack

Re: So it's started: Lenovo/Moto announce phones without 3.5mm jack

Reply #13 –
Would a phone still need a DAC for the earpiece and speakerphone to work, or is that completely different technology?

The last thing I really want is battery powered headphones with a built in DAC.  Nothing worse than running out the door to catch the bus and realizing you forgot to charge your headphones last night.

With Windows 10 still lacking native USB Audio Class 2 support, all you Windows guys are going to need to install a driver to use a pair of headphones.

I know 3.5mm headphone jacks are really prone to failure.  I've been using that jack on Sony Walksmans and their clones back in the 80s and 90s, and iPods all through the 2000s.  And on all those devices. the 3.5mm jack was always the first to fail.  My first smartphone was a Motorola Droid, and the headphone jack on that also failed.

If Apple and Motorola and all these other guys came up with a new connectors to replace it with, that was a lot sturdier, that might be a win.  But to just outright remove it and force people to use the USB or Lightning connector is kind of annoying.

It's always possible Apple is going to dump Lightning in their new phones and go with USB C. but I doubt that.  Would be cool, though.

Re: So it's started: Lenovo/Moto announce phones without 3.5mm jack

Reply #14 –
Completely forgot about the earpiece/speakers. Sure, there would be a DAC for those in the phone.

Regarding headphones, probably most of them aren't Class 2, but even if so, I'm sure it's going to be quite a while until these headphones become mainstream, and by that time let's hope MS has it ready. Also, I don't think most headphones will need batteries, they'll be bus-powered most likely.

Re: So it's started: Lenovo/Moto announce phones without 3.5mm jack

Reply #16 –
If 3.5mm headphone sockets are prone to failure, which I've not experienced myself but know is often the case, then surely the answer is to improve the build quality of the sockets used. There is nothing inherently wrong with the connector per se - it works and is an industry standard and has been for eons.

Anyone with expensive earphones is likely to be miffed to discover they need more hardware just to connect them (if they can).  How exactly is it an improvement to have other gadgets hanging off your phone, prone to being knocked and damaging the connector? Hopefully consumers will vote with their wallets but I'm not holding my breath.

Re: So it's started: Lenovo/Moto announce phones without 3.5mm jack

Reply #17 –
If the iPhone does it, for better or worse it's very likely that it will become mainstream. The problem will then become having to choose between Lightning and USB-C.

Re: So it's started: Lenovo/Moto announce phones without 3.5mm jack

Reply #18 –
Quote from: antz on
If 3.5mm headphone sockets are prone to failure, which I've not experienced myself but know is often the case, then surely the answer is to improve the build quality of the sockets used. There is nothing inherently wrong with the connector per se - it works and is an industry standard and has been for eons.

Anyone with expensive earphones is likely to be miffed to discover they need more hardware just to connect them (if they can).  How exactly is it an improvement to have other gadgets hanging off your phone, prone to being knocked and damaging the connector? Hopefully consumers will vote with their wallets but I'm not holding my breath.
Many of the people with expensive headphones are already carrying around external DAC/Amps. some take this to the extent of pocket hiofi stacks!

(ok, ok, I confess: I have tried using external DACs too. Actually, phone+HD600 does not give enough volume, so it is not just audiophilia. With the Noontech 'phones, I gave up bothering and just plug them direct. )

By the way...
Quote
There is nothing inherently wrong with the connector per se - it works and is an industry standard and has been for eons.
This is one of those moments when I wish I could draw. That's a great inspiration for a cartoon with Caveman in headphones with cable plugged into a boulder

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The most important audio cables are the ones in the brain