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Topic: Ffmpeg-supported lossless codecs (Read 1228 times) previous topic - next topic
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Ffmpeg-supported lossless codecs

If ffmpeg supports the likes of Monkey's Audio, TAK, and TTA, among other not-so-common lossless formats, then can it also encode/decode such formats using a command line?
For example, if I want to use a command line with EAC to encode into these formats, or Cue Tools to do both, then what sort of command line should be used? How does one go about constructing one for use with ffmpeg and the aforementioned programs?

Re: Ffmpeg-supported lossless codecs

Reply #1
Can't answer your question directly because I've never tried, cuetools has an ffmpeg preset you could use as a starting point.

Re: Ffmpeg-supported lossless codecs

Reply #2
Can't answer your question directly because I've never tried, cuetools has an ffmpeg preset you could use as a starting point.
I’ve tried to use this to encode TAK and TTA but it doesn’t seem to work regardless. TAK in particular has 15 variations and I’m not sure how to apply those to ffmpeg.
Same with the EAC command lines for ffmpeg to encode in those formats but it doesn’t work as well.


Re: Ffmpeg-supported lossless codecs

Reply #4
ffmpeg -codecs
I do have to say though that I'm rather illiterate with how command lines function and where to even begin, all I know is just a bit of how they may work for EAC and CueTools but I'm not completely sure of how they function from codec to codec.

Re: Ffmpeg-supported lossless codecs

Reply #5
https://www.ffmpeg.org/general.html
TAK - Decoding only
APE - Decoding only
TTA - Encoding and decoding
TTA has no encoding options/parameters.

I ripped my last CD maybe 10 years ago so I have zero experience with the tools mentioned above.
Anyway, based on the picture provided by Dracaena, I can clearly see that there are existing FLAC presets.
Stick to them. I don't see any valid reason to use anything other than FLAC.
gold plated toslink fan

Re: Ffmpeg-supported lossless codecs

Reply #6
If ffmpeg supports the likes of Monkey's Audio, TAK, and TTA, among other not-so-common lossless formats, then can it also encode/decode such formats using a command line?
For example, if I want to use a command line with EAC to encode into these formats, or Cue Tools to do both, then what sort of command line should be used? How does one go about constructing one for use with ffmpeg and the aforementioned programs?
Ue this guide for ripping to APE with EAC without ffmpeg: https://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=EAC_and_Monkey%27s_Audio

For ripping to TAK, check here: https://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=EAC_and_TAK

Both with illustrated examples.


Re: Ffmpeg-supported lossless codecs

Reply #7
Ue this guide for ripping to APE with EAC without ffmpeg: https://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=EAC_and_Monkey%27s_Audio

For ripping to TAK, check here: https://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=EAC_and_TAK

Both with illustrated examples.
I use those ones already but I’m not exactly looking for Monkey’s Audio guides, and the TAK encoder still uses takc which doesn’t support unicode.
https://www.ffmpeg.org/general.html
TAK - Decoding only
APE - Decoding only
TTA - Encoding and decoding
TTA has no encoding options/parameters.

I ripped my last CD maybe 10 years ago so I have zero experience with the tools mentioned above.
Anyway, based on the picture provided by Dracaena, I can clearly see that there are existing FLAC presets.
Stick to them. I don't see any valid reason to use anything other than FLAC.

Oh, I get it now, if TTA has no parameters then it won’t have such a command line either way.
And if the other ones are decoding only, then no problem. I wanted to know how to decode TAK in a way that it would support unicode via CueTools. And then just find out how to make a rip to TTA besides CueRipper.
Some of the use I have for other lossless formats besides FLAC is partially for reasons of curiosity in finding out how all these codecs work and can be used, and also for dealing with producing and decoding CD audio (mostly image file) archives that achieve slightly better compression rates than FLAC.

Re: Ffmpeg-supported lossless codecs

Reply #8
Some of the use I have for other lossless formats besides FLAC is partially for reasons of curiosity in finding out how all these codecs work and can be used

It is possible then to use software that calls the application (EAC in your case), but if you want to find out how they work you might consider going for the codec application itself and learn. Also some of those uses are not useful for CDDA.

For example, if you want to use WavPack for DSD you should use wavpack.exe. Also if you want to preserve Adobe metadata in 32-bit floating-point files (something I just learned). If you are curious about TTA's password protection feature (candy for the curious, but not something in big demand eh?) then use tta.exe . For takc you will have to deal with temporary naming.



slightly better compression rates than FLAC.
I doubt that hard drive cost is going to be worth it except if your drive is getting so full that you need to squeeze out half a percent ... which could happen, I mean for a 4 TB drive full of lossless audio, that would be fifty more CDs before you have to upgrade.
But nerdy curiosity isn't to be shrugged off, so see http://www.audiograaf.nl/losslesstest/Lossless%20audio%20codec%20comparison%20-%20revision%204.pdf , in particular page 6; for practical considerations, I will argue that decoding speed is more interesting than encoding speed, as encoding is done once.
OptimFrog is the king of compression - but I suspect it includes those ultra-slow settings only to match LA (which is abandonware since long, so forget it).  For a frogleap [seewhatIdidthere?] in speed, go TAK - which is an impressive piece of software indeed.

Myself I am using FLAC because it is tried, tested, open source & compatible and fast - everything decoding (including AccurateRip retro-verification!) is as fast as it gets for a compressed format (ah-OK I could have gone with -6 rather than -8 for speed I admit).
And then for certain oddballs I use WavPack: I have a handful of DSDs for curiosity, and a few floating-points, and also I use WavPack to distinguish certain files - like those with pre-emphasis, just in case I should accidentally delete the pre_emphasis tag. (Besides I like WavPack, so I confess to using the latter as an excuse. That is probably also one reason why I stored a DTS CD as TAK, that would back in the day prevent it from being played by accident and spit static in my face; TAK doesn't offer much advantage on those files, so "TAK impresses me!" is a really bad excuse. But yes, TAK impresses me.)
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Re: Ffmpeg-supported lossless codecs

Reply #10
For example, if you want to use WavPack for DSD you should use wavpack.exe. Also if you want to preserve Adobe metadata in 32-bit floating-point files (something I just learned).
Yes, just drag DSD files to wavpack.exe, no command-line knowledge needed. Wavpack also preserves markers and loop points in .WAV files, software like Audition, Sound Forge, Reaper and Vienna SoundFont Studio use these metadata. It seems that newer versions of FLAC also preserve metadata but not all DAWs/editors support this thing.

The Audition/Cool Edit floating-point thing is a historical annoyance. Cool Edit's floating-point implementation was dumb, it does not check for special values like Infinity and NaN and just freezes/crashes. Perhaps these checks were too expensive for CPUs at that time. Just use SoX to process and save some files as 32-bit integer and get crash in Cool Edit, that sucks. Audition 1.5 seems to be able to detect integer files, but the logic is not so smart and prone to misinterpretation.

Re: Ffmpeg-supported lossless codecs

Reply #11
Yes, just drag DSD files to wavpack.exe, no command-line knowledge needed.
Oh. Interesting. (I grew up with command-line, but I am also lazy.)

But point being: if a user wants to learn more about various codecs/formats, then there are other things than just the CDDA format that distinguish them - and not all features are readily accessible through 3rd-party software.
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