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Hosted Forums => foobar2000 => General - (fb2k) => Topic started by: JoyO on 2008-02-12 14:41:33

Title: Inconsistency with multi disc albums and default interface
Post by: JoyO on 2008-02-12 14:41:33
How do you handle multi disc albums? Here are most common scenarios when using official components:
First option - suggested by "Auto track number" function - is to separate each disc into different folder (Album/Disc number/track). But then album art will be copied only to first disc folder when used new file operations menu so we loose possibility to view artowrk for other discs. Isnt that annoying? That way artwork has to be copied using external tool to other subfolders. Also, updating such an artwork in future is complicated.
Second option - suggested by "Album art viewer" component - to have artwork viewable for every disc of specific album, all tracks should be in one directory. So we set to each disc proper discnumber tag. But then we cant use properly "Auto track number" function because it is based on directory structure.

Maybe someone has better working scheme?
Title: Inconsistency with multi disc albums and default interface
Post by: randal1013 on 2008-02-12 15:04:44
what i do is tag all the tracks according to what disc they came from, then auto track all the tracks together and put them all in one folder along with the album art.
Title: Inconsistency with multi disc albums and default interface
Post by: intoc on 2008-02-12 15:34:28
what i do is tag all the tracks according to what disc they came from, then auto track all the tracks together and put them all in one folder along with the album art.


In addition, I also use [%discnumber%.][%tracknumber% - ]%title% for renaming files, and %album artist%/%album artist% '['%date%']' - %album%/[%discnumber%.][%tracknumber% - ]%title% for moving.

Thus,

Artist\Artist [year] - Album\discnumber.tracknumber - Title
Title: Inconsistency with multi disc albums and default interface
Post by: JoyO on 2008-02-12 15:49:46
Yes, I tried using that also - but we loose "Auto track number" function that way. That would be nice solution if grouping pattern could be specified for auto track numbering, similar to RG scanner.
Title: Inconsistency with multi disc albums and default interface
Post by: Fandango on 2008-02-12 17:04:06
This is how I do it, not having any problems with it:

Tags:File name:That (especially the tags) works out of the box.

PS: Auto track-number fails to recognise %album%+%discnumber%+%totaldiscs%: It does not start over with each CD, but will continue at the second CD without resetting the counter. That's a bug (or missing feature), I'd say.
PPS: Have you tried "Automatically Fill Values" and creating the tracks from the file names?
Title: Inconsistency with multi disc albums and default interface
Post by: JoyO on 2008-02-12 17:12:48
So how do you tracknumber your files? This is simply already mentioned "Second option" where all files from album are in one directory and auto track numbering doesnt work. At least not in expected way.

edit:
"Automatically Fill Values" would be too much hassle, and no way to generate %totaltracks% tag.
Title: Inconsistency with multi disc albums and default interface
Post by: Fandango on 2008-02-12 17:16:02
In case of a lossless WAV rip directly from EAC the track numbers and other basic metadata get imported from the CUE sheet.

In case of individual files (one file per track), either from the filename or from the tags.

PS: Yes, I add a lot of metadata "by hand". My main tagging application is Mp3tag btw... with foobar2000 I only add "totaldiscs" by hand and as a finishing step the replaygain values are added fully automatically, since by then the album and discnumber/totaldisc is already set up correctly.

PPS: Another thing you could do to speed up your "TRACKing" with "Auto Track Numbers" is to assign a custom button to that command. Then select the tracks of each CD in a multi-set and push that button for each CD. Do that after you have auto-track-numbered your whole collection (or new music files), you must search for the multi-set albums then.
Title: Inconsistency with multi disc albums and default interface
Post by: JoyO on 2008-02-12 18:00:46
Quote
PPS: Another thing you could do to speed up your "TRACKing" with "Auto Track Numbers" is to assign a custom button to that command. Then select the tracks of each CD in a multi-set and push that button for each CD. Do that after you have auto-track-numbered your whole collection (or new music files), you must search for the multi-set albums then.


Yes, thats useful, but impossible without using old masstagger. My main purpose of this thread was to bring attention to how one official component encourages to use one dir structure, while other to do the opposite. And looks like there is no clean and simple way to bypass problems caused by that.
Title: Inconsistency with multi disc albums and default interface
Post by: Fandango on 2008-02-12 18:08:42
It is impossible without using masstagger? Why? Don't you have every album in its own dorectory?
Title: Inconsistency with multi disc albums and default interface
Post by: JoyO on 2008-02-12 18:10:35
Its impossible to bind "Auto Track Numbers" to key combination. At least I dont see any way to do this.
Title: Inconsistency with multi disc albums and default interface
Post by: Fandango on 2008-02-12 18:12:51
Not keys, but custom buttons (http://www.foobar2000.org/changelog.html).
Hm, it seems that command is not available via custom buttons.
Title: Inconsistency with multi disc albums and default interface
Post by: JoyO on 2008-02-12 18:16:53
That wouldnt be that bad (because I really like to do tagging in properties window - safer, live preview etc.) only if "Auto Track Number" could scan by tags too.
Title: Inconsistency with multi disc albums and default interface
Post by: Fandango on 2008-02-12 18:18:01
Yes, they should have. And yes, it's not available...
Title: Inconsistency with multi disc albums and default interface
Post by: randal1013 on 2008-02-13 00:08:58
if you go to 'manage scripts', add 'auto track number' to the action list, and save the script, you can then bind that script to a key.


and why do you guys need the song filenames to have the track number from this disc it came from? as long as the files are in the right order, and you have the %disc% tagged correctly, what difference does it make how the filenames are numbered?
Title: Inconsistency with multi disc albums and default interface
Post by: JoyO on 2008-02-13 09:08:53
if you go to 'manage scripts', add 'auto track number' to the action list, and save the script, you can then bind that script to a key.

I do that since there are scripts. But thats old method, I would like to use new properties dialog which is more automatic.
and why do you guys need the song filenames to have the track number from this disc it came from? as long as the files are in the right order, and you have the %disc% tagged correctly, what difference does it make how the filenames are numbered?

Because I like when files are sorted when browsing with files manager or external standalone media player through network? And because album may have the same track titles on both discs...
Title: Inconsistency with multi disc albums and default interface
Post by: randal1013 on 2008-02-13 11:54:45
and why do you guys need the song filenames to have the track number from this disc it came from? as long as the files are in the right order, and you have the %disc% tagged correctly, what difference does it make how the filenames are numbered?

Because I like when files are sorted when browsing with files manager or external standalone media player through network? And because album may have the same track titles on both discs...

but the files would be sorted if you use the second option, and if you use the track number in the file name, that would differentiate multiple songs with the same title.
Title: Inconsistency with multi disc albums and default interface
Post by: JoyO on 2008-02-13 12:02:06
What if the tracks have same title and tracknumber? Thats what Im talking about.

And they wont be sorted (in file manager), this will look like:
01. track from d1
01. track from d2
02. track from d1
02. track from d2
...

Now imagine you want to send some files from disc1 to mp3 player without using foobar. You simply cant select one disc, but have to click every track separately.
Title: Inconsistency with multi disc albums and default interface
Post by: randal1013 on 2008-02-13 12:08:34
but if you use auto track number on the entire album, all the tracks will have a unique track number, thus they will be sorted correctly.
Title: Inconsistency with multi disc albums and default interface
Post by: JoyO on 2008-02-13 12:10:57
Yeah but I guess thats not the standard use of tracknumber. The standard is each disc starts numbering from 01.
Title: Inconsistency with multi disc albums and default interface
Post by: randal1013 on 2008-02-13 12:23:02
there's no need for you to use the same track number from the physical discs when you name and tag the files on your hard drive. all that matters, at least to me, is to have the tracks in the right order and to retain their respective disc numbers in the %disc% tag. auto tracking all the songs together and putting them in one folder is the easiest way, i think. you can even do what intoc and fandango suggested and include the disc number in the file name so you can still see which disc each track came from when you navigate to the album folder. in fact, if you use the disc number in the file name, you can actually retain the track numbers from the physical discs if you like.

example:
%discnumber%.%track% - %title%
1.01 - title
2.01 - title
Title: Inconsistency with multi disc albums and default interface
Post by: JoyO on 2008-02-13 12:32:46
But you cant do that automatically - thing that is point of "Auto track number".
And tracknumbers beginning with 01 for each disc actually have practical uses - its much easier find specific track in listing by looking by numbers than titles. The way you propose files in library  would have different tracknumber than everywhere else (freedb, web, covers , itunes etc...)
Title: Inconsistency with multi disc albums and default interface
Post by: randal1013 on 2008-02-13 12:43:34
well, what is it that you're doing that requires your files to be named the same as itunes, web sites and freedb?
Title: Inconsistency with multi disc albums and default interface
Post by: JoyO on 2008-02-13 12:49:21
The same thing that tells me not to put track name to album tag - standards, clean look, clarity.
That has practical uses, lets say you have lyrics from cd case and are currently listening to song from that album. It much easier to find track you are looking for  by taking its number than its title (especially if the track isnt in your native language). Same thing is with freedb - for example if you want to spot spelling mistake, definitely easier to check tracknumber.
Title: Inconsistency with multi disc albums and default interface
Post by: sketching on 2008-02-13 12:57:30
I'm confused with what state your music files are in right now. How do you have your tracks stored on your hard drive and are they properly tagged to any degree?
Title: Inconsistency with multi disc albums and default interface
Post by: randal1013 on 2008-02-13 13:02:16
but you can make your own standard. you dont have to be just like everyone else. the way i see it is, they're my files on my computer, i'll name them however i like. so what if itunes does it differently? if it makes sense to me, that's all that matters.

you don't need to have the track numbers exactly right for freedb to figure what album it is and apply track titles.

and if you want to find a track with foobar, you can navigate through the album list, or use the search box in facets.
Title: Inconsistency with multi disc albums and default interface
Post by: JoyO on 2008-02-13 13:09:41
I'm confused with what state your music files are in right now. How do you have your tracks stored on your hard drive and are they properly tagged to any degree?

They are fine, each album in separate directory, soundtrack inside its own subfolder - all thanks to foobar. The problem is only with multi disc albums - plese refer to my 1st post - dont you see any contradiction there?

you don't need to have the track numbers exactly right for freedb to figure what album it is and apply track titles.

I guess you dont need tracknumber at all.  Well, I need it and reasons are above (problem is correcting mistakes from freedb - this can be accomplished by comparing track name from few sources, the easiest way is to find it by tracknumber - clear enough now?).
Title: Inconsistency with multi disc albums and default interface
Post by: sketching on 2008-02-13 13:31:33
I honestly don't know what your first post is talking about. None of your files currently have any metadata filled out? They are only organized on your hard drive by folders down to each disk?

If so, why not:
1. Run a tagging program on each folder and get the proper track numbers from a database.
2. Make sure the discnumber is properly filled.
3. Place all album files in a single folder (so that only a single album art image is used)
4. Use foobar2000 to properly name each file by a scheme that will properly organize each file within each folder, something like:
%album%\%disk number%.%track number% %title%
?

Once everything is properly tagged, foobar2000 already properly sorts multi-disc albums in the correct order, by disc then by track.
Title: Inconsistency with multi disc albums and default interface
Post by: JoyO on 2008-02-13 13:34:50
I have all tags properly set, my first post is about that when you tag files this way (without subfolders for each disc) "Auto track number" doesnt work as it should because it scans by dirs not tags.
Title: Inconsistency with multi disc albums and default interface
Post by: sketching on 2008-02-13 13:40:24
Okay then.
1. Put all of the files for a single disc in a temporary playlist.
2. Re-order them the way you want, in the order that they should be in.
3. Select all the tracks and go the Properties dialog.
4. Apply Auto Track Number to each disc's files individually.
5. Repeat for each disk.

That will give you the proper track numbers as you want, for each disc. Then, fill out the discnumber fields. Once you have the files properly tagged with the tracknumber and discnumber info, you can place all the album's files in a single folder.
Title: Inconsistency with multi disc albums and default interface
Post by: JoyO on 2008-02-13 13:47:56
You think I dont know that?  The point it this could be automatic.
Title: Inconsistency with multi disc albums and default interface
Post by: sketching on 2008-02-13 13:49:47
Why not use a tagging program, or the Freedb tagging function? I assume that they properly fill in the track numbers for each disc and disc number, unless I'm wrong in that assumption.
Title: Inconsistency with multi disc albums and default interface
Post by: JoyO on 2008-02-13 13:56:45
Exactly - even freedb tagger tags every disc with tracknumber beggining from 01 - and why "Auto track number" destroys it by design?
Title: Inconsistency with multi disc albums and default interface
Post by: sketching on 2008-02-13 13:58:22
If you have the tracks tagged from the freedb tagger, why do you want to re-tag them with Auto Track Number?
Title: Inconsistency with multi disc albums and default interface
Post by: JoyO on 2008-02-13 14:03:35
I dont, but not everything is in freedb and than "Auto track number" is used - and IMHO it should behave the same as other components.
Title: Inconsistency with multi disc albums and default interface
Post by: sketching on 2008-02-13 14:12:04
Ah, okay.
Then, what more do you want from Auto Track Number? It doesn't look up any info, it simply tags tracks in the order that you place them in, that's all that it is supposed to do.
Title: Inconsistency with multi disc albums and default interface
Post by: JoyO on 2008-02-13 14:18:02
No, it actually doeas a little more, scans discs by dirs - treats every album in every dir as separate disc. I mentioned it already in first post.
Possible solution would be scanning also by tags, such a solutions is already in "album grouping pattern" in RG scan advanced options.
That way you could auto track number all your library with one click. You can do this now if you have each disc in separate dir, but than you loose artowrk viewing. Ehh, looks like some dont get the idea
Title: Inconsistency with multi disc albums and default interface
Post by: cmdrpaddy on 2008-02-13 14:51:32
I think the best solution would be to not use auto track number at all, according to the wiki:

Quote
Auto track number
This gives the track number according to the order of the files in the selection.


Unless you are going to put all the files in the correct order it would be far easier for you to just use the discogs plugin or the freedb2 plugin. There's no reason to change auto track number when there's plenty of ways to do what you need without changing how auto track number works.
Title: Inconsistency with multi disc albums and default interface
Post by: RevivalofHonor on 2008-02-14 23:54:10
To answer your original question, I use the first option and just manually copy / paste the album art into each of the other folders.  Yes, it is extremely annoying to have to do that, and if i find better looking album art, I have to go and update each folder.  For now, I would tell you to just be patient; other people have already asked in the Album art support thread (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=58322) about being able to change the searching pattern for album art (I refer you to this post (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=58322&view=findpost&p=526800) in particular for a developer's response).