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Topic: CD Ripping: Illegal? (Read 18252 times) previous topic - next topic
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CD Ripping: Illegal?

Okay, a friend is telling me that ripping CDs is violating fair use and the DCMA. Personally I don't believe this (and wouldn't care if it is true) - but I'm curious if it really is? I highly doubt it's illegal to rip your own CDs for personal use, but...
err... i'm not using windows any more ;)

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #1 –
The US has fair use, so you can rip CDs (that are unprotected by definition) without problems under US law.

Copy-corrupted discs can't be ripped without circumventing the copy-corruption, so it would technically be illegal from the DMCA standpoint, but as you say, who cares?

Korea doesn't have fair use, so all CD ripping is technically illegal, but that doesn't stop the DAP market from flourishing here.

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #2 –
Here in the Netherlands consumers are allowed to make copies of their music for personal use.

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #3 –
Hanky
Are you sure? EU has a directive, that circumventing any copy protection is illegal.

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #5 –
It has just been recently clarified in the UK that it is legal for personal use on portable devices and PC's. No mention of any copy protected CD's though.

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #6 –
In Denmark we are allowed to make personal copies of normal CDs we own. After the copy is made we do not need to hang on to the original. We can sell it, give it away, loose it, etc. Copy is still legal because it was made from an owned original -- unless it is done systematically.

We may also bypass a copy protection scheme, but only if needed to play the media. Bypassing in order to make a copy is not allowed.

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #7 –
In Germany, circumventing a copy protection is illegal, but ripping unprotected CDs in your posession (that includes CDs borrowed from a friend) is still perfectly legal for private, non-profit etc use.
Even better, you do not need an "original" disk for this, only a "legal" one, so copying from a legal copy is ok as well. Burning a CD and giving it to a friend is limited to close friends and relatives, but lending a CD to someone is legal, and then it's legal for him to copy it, anyway.
Even more bizarre, when you are allowed to copy a CD, you are also allowed to have someone do the copying for you. So copying a CD and giving it to someone is probably illegal, but when you lend the CD to him, and he hands it back and says "please copy this for me", this is legal. Crazy laws.

I do not take any responsibility should the information above be wrong. IANAL. I just read a deal about this topic and this is what I think is the situation.

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #8 –
Screw the DMCA. Has anyone actually been prosecuted for ripping a copy protected audio CD? Laws don't really mean much if they're not enforced.

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #9 –
@MedO: I have dozens of audio CD's made in Germany and a good portion of them has fine print on the back cover saying landing isn't included in your rights.
WavPack 5.6.0 -b384hx6cmv / qaac64 2.80 -V 100

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #10 –
It could be argued that the Protection on copy protected cds it not really a protection (ie hold shift key to bypass it, is that really a viable copy protection).

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #11 –
Gotta agree with cosmo here.  As long as your not trying to make any money off copied CD's who really cares about the laws.  The music industries around the world must realise that music is not only a private luxury but also social.  No matter what they do they will never stop music being copied and shared.

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #12 –
Quote from: DARcode on
@MedO: I have dozens of audio CD's made in Germany and a good portion of them has fine print on the back cover saying landing isn't included in your rights.


AFAIK this only applies for commercial lending, i.e. if you take money for it.

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #13 –
Quote from: spoon on
It could be argued that the Protection on copy protected cds it not really a protection (ie hold shift key to bypass it, is that really a viable copy protection).
Except that some manufacturer has the brain to purposefully whack the low-level encoding of the CD in such a way that causes CD-ROM drives to fail reading the CD, while CD players can play them. But apparently, some self-error-correcting CD players fail to play the CD, making a ruckus.

In this case, the CD is blatantly violating the standard for CD's and is therefore already an illegitimate thing; IMO here the copyright law breaks down as I am in fact salvaging a broken thing.

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #14 –
Quote from: kjoonlee on
Copy-corrupted discs can't be ripped without circumventing the copy-corruption, so it would technically be illegal from the DMCA standpoint, but as you say, who cares?

As mentioned in another thread. Most of the new protection schemes in use don't mess up the audio session and comply with the standard. They're solely based on a software solution you don't need to run. Pressing the shift key under WinXP (or disabling autostart once and for all) or using Linux as operating system of choice cannot be considered "circumvention".

edit: grammar

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #15 –
Quote from: SebastianG on
As mentioned in another thread. Most of the new protection schemes in use don't mess up the audio session and comply with the standard. They're solely based on a software solution you don't need to run. Pressing the shift key under WinXP (or disabling autostart once and for all) or using Linux as operating system of choice cannot be considered "circumvention".


Exactly ... the german copyright law only speaks of circumventing "working" protections by non-simple means.

If I fire up plextools on my premium (simple means) with a copy protected disc in it and plextools/premium are not affected by the protection scheme, then this CD doesn't contain a working protection. Easy as that ...
The name was Plex The Ripper, not Jack The Ripper

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #16 –
I don't care about the legality myself, but I was curious if what he was saying is true. Seems not, thanks folks
err... i'm not using windows any more ;)

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #17 –
Quote from: JeanLuc on
Quote from: SebastianG on
As mentioned in another thread. Most of the new protection schemes in use don't mess up the audio session and comply with the standard. They're solely based on a software solution you don't need to run. Pressing the shift key under WinXP (or disabling autostart once and for all) or using Linux as operating system of choice cannot be considered "circumvention".


Exactly ... the german copyright law only speaks of circumventing "working" protections by non-simple means.

If I fire up plextools on my premium (simple means) with a copy protected disc in it and plextools/premium are not affected by the protection scheme, then this CD doesn't contain a working protection. Easy as that ...


This is not clear, in a c't article I read about the issue they had three lawyers advising them, and their opinion on this point was split. "Circumventing" by using an analog copy was considered legal by all of them, but there was no consensus about using a drive that doesn't care. Anyway, even if some things are a grey legal area it seems the record industry is unlikely to target us direct-copiers anytime soon, because it's just far easier to get to the p2p-filesharers.
 

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #18 –
Quote from: MedO on
This is not clear, in a c't article I read about the issue they had three lawyers advising them, and their opinion on this point was split. "Circumventing" by using an analog copy was considered legal by all of them, but there was no consensus about using a drive that doesn't care. Anyway, even if some things are a grey legal area it seems the record industry is unlikely to target us direct-copiers anytime soon, because it's just far easier to get to the p2p-filesharers.
Well, "circumventing" means "actively pursuing and applying a method to get around a limitation".

IMO Windows' autorun is a 'feature', and can be disabled by a user if he/she does not desire such a feature.

Thus bypassing Windows' autorun does not fall into the category of "circumventing" -- you're legal.

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #19 –
<rant mode on>
The law is an ass
</rant mode off>

Whatever the DMCA says, I think it is legal for a person to make a copy of the CD he has bought, as long as he is not using it for profit. I do not care if it is copy protected or not.... period. There, I just had to make this point   

audiomars
(He who gets hot and bothered when discussing the DMCA and/ or RIAA)
Reason is immortal, all else mortal
- Pythagoras

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #20 –
If I recall...
the DMCA makes it illegal to circumvent effective technological protection measures.

.. well, if it can be circumvented, it's not very effective now is it?

Then there is also the part in the DMCA about how the DMCA can't conflict with existing copyright law, which grants fair use. So in effect, the DMCA makes it illegal to infringe copyright when there is DRM involved, even though copyright infringment is illegal anyways  .. wow, go congress!

disclaimer: this is as far as I can make heads or tails of the DMCA (might be incorrect!)  .. I haven't done any DMCA reading in a long time.
Vorbis-q0-lowpass99
lame3.93.1-q5-V9-k-nspsytune

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #21 –
The point is not wether we make money from the copies, but if we copy in order to avoid paying for the music.

In France, CD copying is allowed for personal use, for the close family circle (you can copy a CD for your son), and if the CD is borrowed from a library.

I think that it is illegal to keep a copy if you give or sell the original. You must then give the copy (considered as a backup) with it.

I don't think that it can be illegal to copy protected CDs, as long as you can't guess that it is protected because you PC doesn't see any protection (that is the difference between an effective protection and an ineffective one).

It is illegal for a dealer to sell copy protected CDs without a warning written on the box, in french, in letters of a given size at least, if the CD can experience playback problems on some devices.

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #23 –
Regarding the ''ineffective protection'' scenario -

Does printing on the CD or it's packaging which states that ''duplication is prohibited'' mean anything (legally), or is effective copy protection the only true barrier? In other words, with law like the DMCA (which I am assuming supersedes ''fair use''), do written warnings apply in concurrence with the physical protection schemes? Or would the ''myself and my computer saw no deterrents'' excuse hold up?

Perhaps it's a matter than only a court can decide...

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #24 –
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