HydrogenAudio

CD-R and Audio Hardware => Audio Hardware => Topic started by: zerowalker on 2013-03-02 01:19:45

Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: zerowalker on 2013-03-02 01:19:45
Well i have been reading around, and the result i have come to seems to be that a Soundcard isn´t really suggested.
But using a soundcard with Digital Output to a DAC and Amp seems to be the way to go?

If so, i was wondering, where should i look, i don´t really have any idea about DAC and Amps.

Can they be used for High Grade Microphones aswell, or is that Separate?

Thank:)
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: Arnold B. Krueger on 2013-03-02 13:24:42
Well i have been reading around, and the result i have come to seems to be that a Soundcard isn´t really suggested.


Audio myths often based on the myth that you can't create clean sound inside a computer.

Reality is that some of the cleanest audio to ever come out of a computer has come from the analog outputs of soundcards inside computers.

Quote
Can they be used for High Grade Microphones as well, or is that Separate?


For other reasons mic mixers and mic preamps are usually external.
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: zerowalker on 2013-03-02 13:53:41
So you are saying that a High End Soundcard will give me the "best" DAC + Amp that i may need for Headphones?
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: Arnold B. Krueger on 2013-03-02 13:58:18
The best is always elusive. Most of us are very happy with something that is truly very, very good.

I'm saying don't discount a solution because it is an internal sound card.

For me,  my best solution for listening for pleasure is a portable digital player.
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: skamp on 2013-03-02 15:18:41
PC soundcards are usually plagued with high output impedance, unsuitable for headphones.
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: db1989 on 2013-03-02 15:34:41
The best is always elusive. Most of us are very happy with something that is truly very, very good.
IOW, most decent soundcards and the DACs therein will be more than good enough; you don’t have to spend hundreds of pounds, by any means. High-end products claiming to be “the best” often are simply lying or are at least referring to slight theoretical increases in quality that would never be audible to a human anyway.
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: xnor on 2013-03-02 16:48:38
I do not see how measured improvements are "theoretical".  Just because these differences are not audible under normal circumstances doesn't mean they're not there.
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: db1989 on 2013-03-02 16:55:28
Well, that’s what I meant by “theoretical”, but perhaps it’s not the right word. I don’t mean that extra quality that may or may not be audible isn’t good, but it isn’t always worth the premium that some people expect buyers to pay for it.
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: MusicToMyEars on 2013-03-02 16:56:46
interesting discussion. I remember posting on this forum over 4 years ago, when I first joined, a statement along the lines of - "the line-out on my laptop seems to give the best sound quality". At the time, I didn't realise how much controversy this statement would later cause.

I agree with the general concessions so far, in that the best is usually just very very good to your ears.

I've gone through many headphone amps, from tube, to hybrid, and solid state. I still keep a battery powered solid state one around but mostly to act as an external volume control / extension lead for my headphones. Predominantly, I still listen via the built-in line-out port of a laptop or digital music player and to me this sounds very very good.

Jonny
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: Nessuno on 2013-03-02 17:29:08
PC soundcards are usually plagued with high output impedance, unsuitable for headphones.

And they sometime get noise leaking from other internal components. Anyway whort a listen before go buying something else.
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: Nessuno on 2013-03-02 17:38:44
I do not see how measured improvements are "theoretical".  Just because these differences are not audible under normal circumstances doesn't mean they're not there.

Just nitpicking, but "theoretical increase in quality" is correct IMO, when quality is defined with reference to listening: a real improvement in measurable quantity becomes a theoretical one in quality, if results as not perceivable by a listener.
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: saratoga on 2013-03-02 21:39:25
Its not really possible to give a good answer to the questions without know the headphones.
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: extrabigmehdi on 2013-03-02 23:43:59
What exasperate me, is all the talk about "synergy" between headphones and source.
As if we were talking of different wines, and you have to find the right source with right attributes
for your headphone (lot of literature regarding how good are each source, it's mind blowing).
Oh , and I  often read that some headphones "scale up", with better sources (often it means, more expensive).
I've just read  a recommendation at headfi for the DNA  stratus to use with the hd800.
Only ... 2300$, for a tube amp that probably colors the sound.


Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: xnor on 2013-03-03 00:18:19
These are myths which some audiophiles use to feed their delusions and justify purchasing crappy stuff for loads of money to show off or whatever..

It's the same nonsense with:
- you need ultra high gain for a headphone amp to sound good
Reality: lowest possible gain that does the job is usually best

- if you have to set the volume above 10 o'clock the amp doesn't have enough power
Reality: usable volume control range should go from roughly 10 to 2 o'clock

...
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: zerowalker on 2013-03-03 04:18:13
Its not really possible to give a good answer to the questions without know the headphones.


My Headphones are HD280 Pro.

And well, about the internal noise thing from other components. That´s why i was considering DAC and an Amplifier.
But i currently can´t hear noise from internal components.

I know that one PC i had, had some terrible noise from components if i used the Front Panel. I could here specific noise when i did stuff, like moving the mouse and stuff like that.

Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: Rollin on 2013-03-03 07:30:46
Audiotrak Prodigy Cube probably can be what you want: DAC + Headphone amp + Microphone input
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: zerowalker on 2013-03-03 09:36:15
Audiotrak Prodigy Cube probably can be what you want: DAC + Headphone amp + Microphone input


I would prefer it to use, well not USB. Optical or HDMI would be nice (probably optical though.).

And with Microphone, i think i will go with that later, a separate Mic Pre-Amp.

So well, it´s just for Headphones, which should narrow it down i guess.

Maybe you guys can say what you are using, to give me a hint what to look for:)?
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: probedb on 2013-03-03 20:17:15
I do not see how measured improvements are "theoretical".  Just because these differences are not audible under normal circumstances doesn't mean they're not there.


But measured improvements mean nothing if I can't hear them. As far as my ears/brain are concerned in this situation there is no improvement.
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: Arnold B. Krueger on 2013-03-04 16:17:08
Its not really possible to give a good answer to the questions without know the headphones.


My Headphones are HD280 Pro.

And well, about the internal noise thing from other components. That´s why i was considering DAC and an Amplifier.


There's no reason other than competence issues that would require that the DAC and the headphone amp has to be in separate boxes. In fact, putting them in separate boxes can create interfacing problems.

Quote
But i currently can´t hear noise from internal components.


Good and no surprise.

Quote
I know that one PC i had, had some terrible noise from components if i used the Front Panel. I could here specific noise when i did stuff, like moving the mouse and stuff like that.


The noises you heard may not have actually been electrical noise of the kind we've been talking about. It could be bus contention problems. I've had that problem as well, but on occasions I've corrected it by non-electrical means.
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: Arnold B. Krueger on 2013-03-04 16:20:47
I do not see how measured improvements are "theoretical".  Just because these differences are not audible under normal circumstances doesn't mean they're not there.


But measured improvements mean nothing if I can't hear them. As far as my ears/brain are concerned in this situation there is no improvement.


I presume you mean to say: "But measured improvements mean nothing to me if I can't hear them."

The counterpoint is that distortion and noise can build up gradually in an audio system, and so performance that exceeds the limit of hearing can be justified for each comonent on the ground that the better performance is required so that the entire ensemble of components performs without audible problems.

This gets us into discussion what the weakest links are, which is often a profitable discussion.
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: saratoga on 2013-03-04 16:45:17
Its not really possible to give a good answer to the questions without know the headphones.


My Headphones are HD280 Pro.

And well, about the internal noise thing from other components. That´s why i was considering DAC and an Amplifier.
But i currently can´t hear noise from internal components.


Those aren't very hard to drive headphones, and a highend amp is kind of overkill for them.  Do you hear noise with the onboard?  If not, I probably wouldn't bother.  A quality amp might be better then an average on board sound card with these headphones, but you'll probably have to work to notice the difference. 

That said, the fiio stuff is cheap and some of it quite good. 
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: probedb on 2013-03-04 17:29:22
I presume you mean to say: "But measured improvements mean nothing to me if I can't hear them."

The counterpoint is that distortion and noise can build up gradually in an audio system, and so performance that exceeds the limit of hearing can be justified for each comonent on the ground that the better performance is required so that the entire ensemble of components performs without audible problems.

This gets us into discussion what the weakest links are, which is often a profitable discussion.


Yep, that's really what I was meaning, if there is a measured improvement in the overall system but I can't hear it then it doesn't matter to me.
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: DVDdoug on 2013-03-04 18:51:18
Quote
Can they be used for High Grade Microphones aswell, or is that Separate?
The mic input on a regular soundcard is the wrong interface for a good studio/performance microphone.    The input is high-impedance unbalanced (2-wire), and often the soundcard's preamp is poor quality (i.e. noisy).

Good microphones are low-impedance balanced (3-wire) with XLR Connectors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XLR_connector).  In addition, studio condenser microphones need 48V phantom power (provided by the preamp/interface). 

Here (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/alesis-io4-4-channel-24-bit-recording-interface) is one example of a USB interface with micrphone inputs. 

Or. you can get a "studio quality" USB microphone (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/search.jsp?N=700008&Ns=r&Ntk=ALL&Ntx=mode+matchpartialmax&Nty=1&Ntt=usb%20mic).    These are economical and convenient, but you can't generally record from more than one "device" at a time, so if you want to record stereo or multitrack this is not the best solution (although you can find stereo USB mics).

The line-input on many regular soundcards is often adequate.  So, another solution is to use a preamp or mixer (with mic inputs) and connect the line-output from the preamp/mixer to line-in on your souncard.  (Most laptops don't have a line-input).
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: zerowalker on 2013-03-05 04:21:18
Yes, that´s what i will be buying later some time. A Studio Microphone and a Amp with the XLR, as that´s the way to go.
But that does not have much to do with Headphone Amps, which is why i ended up asking for what you people use for that:)

I currently use an USB microphone, it works very good, but it got noise from the DAC, so it´s not "Studio" quality, i don´t really think any USB is that though.
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: zerowalker on 2013-03-08 14:07:25
Okay ended up ordering O2 Headphone Ampifier.
It seemed to be liked, and price worthy.

I will probably get it early next week:)
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: SonicBooom! on 2013-03-09 02:20:30
At the end of the day, you will just have to hear it and decide in your own. Reviews can be a good thing since it can give you some insights, but you can't possibly decide on some guy's perspective. And if you can, do ABX. So you don't have to purchase a bank-breaking equipment when actually, you can't hear a difference between a 16/44.1 and a "hirez" 24/192 recording. Nonetheless, good luck!
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: saratoga on 2013-03-09 04:16:00
At the end of the day, you will just have to hear it and decide in your own.


For an amp?  Unless you choose terribly or are purposefully going for something with distortion like a tube amp, they're all basically going to be transparent.  Just get something with a enough voltage/current for what you need and it'll be fine.
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: SonicBooom! on 2013-03-10 02:34:17
For an amp?  Unless you choose terribly or are purposefully going for something with distortion like a tube amp, they're all basically going to be transparent.  Just get something with a enough voltage/current for what you need and it'll be fine.

It was in the context of "sound signatures" because some amps can sound different from another, only testing them is one way to know if it suits the tastes of that person.
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: saratoga on 2013-03-10 04:54:41
It was in the context of "sound signatures" because some amps can sound different from another,


Generally speaking, the kinds of quality, high performance amps being discussed in this thread have no "sound signature" at all.  You can build amps that do, but that is not whats being discussed here. 
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: Mach-X on 2013-03-10 05:25:52
What Saratoga said...the headphones have FAR more chance of having a "sound signature" than any modern day solid state amp.
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: extrabigmehdi on 2013-03-10 13:11:47
Generally speaking, the kinds of quality, high performance amps being discussed in this thread have no "sound signature" at all.

What a great and concise statement. Unfortunately, in this statement still some ambiguity remains.
By "high performance amp", you could be talking either of a theoretical one, or one that is too expensive.

It is my understanding that in an audio chain, the headphone is the weakest link for sound  quality, and that at the current state of technology , completly transparent sources (i.e dac + amp) are achieved, and that you don't need to spend insane amount of money to get one (I'm not sure of what is exactly the minimum).

Unfortunately there is very widespread misconception of what is a transparent source.

I've been following recently some threads related to the hd800, at head-fi, and I hope you won't mind if I quote here three hair-pulling snippets of discussion.

Snippet n°1:
Quote
One head-fier saying:
I think the law of diminishing returns applies to upstream gear to a much greater degree than it does to headphones. That's my point in a nutshell.

And an other head-fier answering:
I agree with you on the diminished returns with newer DACs. I find that after about the $1000 ish range things start to plateau pretty quickly.

Snippet n°2:
Quote
The HD800's are not hard to drive, power wise, but they are sure are finicky and picky when it comes to amplification, you need to mate them with the perfect companion amp

Snippet n°3
Quote
The HD800 are actually very hard to drive, quite possibly the most difficult dynamic headphones in current production.  It's all down to the quirks of the ring radiator [driver] and the rather large difference is impedance over the frequency range.  [...] it takes a very well designed amp to make them behave.


My understanding:
Either people need colorations/ distortions in their source in order to enjoy the hd800,
or the myth of the perfect matching amp is used to silence people that just don't enjoy the hd800.
I skip the incentive to just spend more money.


Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: Arnold B. Krueger on 2013-03-10 15:42:06
My understanding:
Either people need colorations/ distortions in their source in order to enjoy the hd800,
or the myth of the perfect matching amp is used to silence people that just don't enjoy the hd800.
I skip the incentive to just spend more money.


I think the real problem is the price. Given that you can obtain pretty good headphones for a tiny fraction, the HD 600s must be awesome. They are no doubt very good but they have a lot of price to live up to!
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: saratoga on 2013-03-10 20:51:31
Generally speaking, the kinds of quality, high performance amps being discussed in this thread have no "sound signature" at all.

What a great and concise statement. Unfortunately, in this statement still some ambiguity remains.
By "high performance amp", you could be talking either of a theoretical one, or one that is too expensive.


Nonsense.  Building a good transistor amp is not expensive.  Fiio charges, what, 20 USD for an amp thats probably better then 99% of products out there.  You can of course get better, but its still not all that expensive, certainly not when compared to quality headphones.


Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: zerowalker on 2013-03-12 04:18:40
I have been wondering a thing i have noticed with my Headphones : HD 280 Pro.

If i play loud, the word S sound very, overexerted(if that´s the word).
But if i lower the volume, it sounds more in tune with the rest of what´s played.

Well it´s pretty much all treble that get´s ruined if i play to loud (to loud depends on the sound itself).

I wonder, does this have anything to do with the soundcard not being able to produce enough power to the headphone?
Or is it just that the Headphones aren´t able to produce stable treble at higher volumes?

Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: Arnold B. Krueger on 2013-03-12 12:34:47
I have been wondering a thing i have noticed with my Headphones : HD 280 Pro.

If i play loud, the word S sound very, overexerted(if that´s the word).
But if i lower the volume, it sounds more in tune with the rest of what´s played.

Well it´s pretty much all treble that get´s ruined if i play to loud (to loud depends on the sound itself).

I wonder, does this have anything to do with the soundcard not being able to produce enough power to the headphone?
Or is it just that the Headphones aren´t able to produce stable treble at higher volumes?



It is hard to tell from thousands of miles away.  If the headphone amp is clipping, then the sort of thing you are hearing could happen. AFAIK a simple cheap headphone booster amp such as the Fiio E5 can help mitigate problems like this.

Most PC audio interfaces are limited to about 1 volt RMS output, but provide various source impedances that could cause the resulting maximum voltage that the headphones receive to be less.

One volt RMS may be a bit on the lead side with many typical headphones for people who want to listen critically.
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: zerowalker on 2013-03-12 23:08:07
Well, can say that i have gotten the Objective2 Amp now.
And well, it pretty much sounds the same, except if i use very high volume on the Amp, i get hiss (it´s probably the soundcard, as i have very low hiss from it originaly, and the amp will probably boost this).

But then again, my Headphones doesn´t really need an amp from what i have read, but it´s a good thing to have for the future:)

But now i have to get a proper DAC that doesn´t add hiss in the lower frequencies.

Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: DVDdoug on 2013-03-13 00:41:40
Quote
I currently use an USB microphone, it works very good, but it got noise from the DAC, so it´s not "Studio" quality, i don´t really think any USB is that though.
I separate USB mics into two general categories.  I'd classify this (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/audio-technica-at2020usb-usb-condenser-microphone) as a "studio-style" microphone.  I don't own one, but I'd expect good quality.  Of course, you are not going to find many $100 USD mics in a pro studio (except for SM57s).    The other category is "gaming"or "communications" microphones,  like this (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Dynex%26%23153%3B+-+USB+Microphone/6084114.p;jsessionid=D869C375CBF6CBFFAEB27D1191A134D6.bbolsp-app04-125?id=1218719519973&skuId=6084114), which I would not recommend for music recording.
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: zerowalker on 2013-03-13 00:57:48
Quote
I currently use an USB microphone, it works very good, but it got noise from the DAC, so it´s not "Studio" quality, i don´t really think any USB is that though.
I separate USB mics into two general categories.  I'd classify this (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/audio-technica-at2020usb-usb-condenser-microphone) as a "studio-style" microphone.  I don't own one, but I'd expect good quality.  Of course, you are not going to find many $100 USD mics in a pro studio (except for SM57s).    The other category is "gaming"or "communications" microphones,  like this (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Dynex%26%23153%3B+-+USB+Microphone/6084114.p;jsessionid=D869C375CBF6CBFFAEB27D1191A134D6.bbolsp-app04-125?id=1218719519973&skuId=6084114), which I would not recommend for music recording.



Yes, i agree, and it´s that kind of microphone i currently use.
But in the future i want one that isn´t of USB, and uses a Pre-Amp and stuff, more high-end so to say.

Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: probedb on 2013-03-13 13:33:44
But now i have to get a proper DAC that doesn´t add hiss in the lower frequencies.


DACs wouldn't do that themselves would they?
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: zerowalker on 2013-03-13 13:38:34
But now i have to get a proper DAC that doesn´t add hiss in the lower frequencies.


DACs wouldn't do that themselves would they?


They don´t;S?

Well i am not knowledgable within this. But i get Hiss, and it must come from the Soundcard, not sure from where.
But i thought it must be the DAC, as after it´s converted to Analogue, the hiss must be added somehow i guess, not sure how it works:S
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: pdq on 2013-03-13 13:49:37
Isn't "hiss in the higher frequencies" a contradiction? Hiss is high frequency noise, or at least is dominated by high frequencies.
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: zerowalker on 2013-03-13 14:27:21
Isn't "hiss in the higher frequencies" a contradiction? Hiss is high frequency noise, or at least is dominated by high frequencies.


Well not sure where the hiss is. But what i mean is that the hiss is low, so only low parts of the sound are blended with it.
That´s what i meant with Low frequencies.
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: greynol on 2013-03-13 14:53:20
We're starting to bump up against TOS #8.

Please attempt to support these sound quality claims.
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: probedb on 2013-03-13 14:58:59

DACs wouldn't do that themselves would they?


They don´t;S?

Well i am not knowledgable within this. But i get Hiss, and it must come from the Soundcard, not sure from where.
But i thought it must be the DAC, as after it´s converted to Analogue, the hiss must be added somehow i guess, not sure how it works:S

Why do you think the DAC is adding any hiss in?
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: zerowalker on 2013-03-13 15:01:21
We're starting to bump up against TOS #8.

Please attempt to support these sound quality claims.


Are you referring to me;S?
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: greynol on 2013-03-13 15:07:37
Yes.
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: zerowalker on 2013-03-13 15:14:04
Yes.


What claim have i done?
Not sure what you are referring to.
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: xnor on 2013-03-13 15:36:13
I guess he's just talking about a high noise floor..
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: zerowalker on 2013-03-13 15:37:15
I guess he's just talking about a high noise floor..


That´s probably the word:)!

And isn´t that improved/removed with higher end DACs?
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: Arnold B. Krueger on 2013-03-13 15:47:29
I guess he's just talking about a high noise floor..


That´s probably the word:)!

And isn´t that improved/removed with higher end DACs?


It can be.

Exactly what is your current DAC or sound card?
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: zerowalker on 2013-03-13 15:51:09

[/quote]

It can be.

Exactly what is your current DAC or sound card?
[/quote]


It´s either VIA® VT1828S (on the Motherboard)
or this http://us.store.creative.com/Creative-Soun.../B000W7PNZI.htm (http://us.store.creative.com/Creative-Sound-Blaster-XFi-Xtreme-Audio/M/B000W7PNZI.htm)

Well i can´t say any of them are good, though i can´t really compare to anything. But i do think the Motherboard beats the other one weird enough.

Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: markanini on 2013-03-13 16:00:30
Make sure the soundcard volume is on max, rather than the amp.
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: zerowalker on 2013-03-13 16:39:08
Make sure the soundcard volume is on max, rather than the amp.


Isn´t it supposed to be the other way around;S?

But anyway, i do currently max, or well not max, but have it on high enough, and the Amp low enough to remove the hiss.

The problem is though, that in the end, the amp doesn´t Amplify the volume, but the other way around.

As the hiss is noticeable without the amp, but it´s very low, not irritating.
But with the amp at 2 a clock setting on the volume, i can remove the hiss (i guess it lowers the volume so that the hiss is unaudiable).
So i currently use it that way. But is that really a good way, i mean won´t i lose information as i lower the volume to clip the noise floor?
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: pdq on 2013-03-13 16:47:10
Once you go to analog, you want to keep the signal level as high as possible without clipping. Only in the very last device in the chain (your amp) do you use the volume control to set the loudness. This minimizes the total noise.
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: greynol on 2013-03-13 17:09:54
pdq is right.  Best practice is to use the last volume control in the chain to set your level with all preceding controls set to the highest level that does not cause clipping.

I want to see Rightrark analyses for all devices in question in order to show their noise floor any anything else that might suggest that they could sound different.  You don't get to say something has hiss or "think" something sounds better than the other without objective evidence.  If you can't provide the evidence don't make the claim.

"i get Hiss, and it must come from the Soundcard" is a claim that needs substantiation.

"i do think the Motherboard beats the other" is a claim that needs substantiation.

Please don't waste other people's time.  A lack of compliance will lead to thread closure.
Title: DAC and Amplifier - Headphones.
Post by: zerowalker on 2013-03-13 17:19:53
pdq is right.  Best practice is to use the last volume control in the chain to set your level with all preceding controls set to the highest level that does not cause clipping.

I want to see Rightrark analyses for all devices in question in order to show their noise floor any anything else that might suggest that they could sound different.  You don't get to say something has hiss or "think" something sounds better than the other without objective evidence.  If you can't provide the evidence don't make the claim.

"i get Hiss, and it must come from the Soundcard" is a claim that needs substantiation.

"i do think the Motherboard beats the other" is a claim that needs substantiation.

Please don't waste other people's time.  A lack of compliance will lead to thread closure.


Okay thanks, will do that.

And well, i guess you see that as a claim, sorry.
I am not used to how you should bring evidence before talking about it, i am used for other way around, my bad.

But here is the Motherboard soundcard, which i prefer to use.

Frequency response (from 40 Hz to 15 kHz), dB -0.04, -0.11 Excellent
Noise level, dB (A) -85.8 Good
Dynamic range, dB (A) 80.7 Good
THD, % 0.0047 Very good
THD + Noise, dB (A) -73.6 Average
IMD + Noise, % 0.016 Very good
Stereo crosstalk, dB -85.8 Excellent
IMD at 10 kHz, % 0.015 Very good
General performance Very good