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Topic: La 0.3 Released (Read 20860 times) previous topic - next topic
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La 0.3 Released

Reply #25 –
A horde of nerds with very high opinions about themselves are using Linux. They believe they are way smarter than the people who released their linux distribution. So they recompile everything in order to optimise the system, thus breaking the distribution.

Frank Klemm has released some binaries for shorten, szip, optimfrog, mac, flac together with mppenc. They work just fine on a standard Red Hat system.

Edit: Ambiguity in first sentense.
 

La 0.3 Released

Reply #26 –
Quote
Linux is used by a horde of nerds with too high opinions about themselves. They believe they are way smarter than the people who released their linux distribution.

I see flames coming on your direction.

La 0.3 Released

Reply #27 –
Quote
Quote
Linux is used by a horde of nerds with too high opinions about themselves. They believe they are way smarter than the people who released their linux distribution.

I see flames coming on your direction.

And just when I thought Dibrom had brought the discussion to its logical conclusion.  I predict this will now become one of those threads we have to mentally filter out of the top-10 for a while...

Posters, resist the urge to respond!

Josh

La 0.3 Released

Reply #28 –
Quote
And just when I thought Dibrom had brought the discussion to its logical conclusion.

Unfortunately there exist a timing problem, when two people formulate a response at the same time. It took me a little time to write those lines, thus my reply came after Dibrom.

I do not intend to participate in a flaming linux discussion in this thread.

My statement is about some linux users, not about all. I have worked together with several clever linux people over the past four years. But I have also had my share of the too clever type.

An example: I've had six different people suggesting postfix over sendmail. Three of them could not set it up properly: a) mails go to wrong reciptient, B) server says relay ok, but mail never sent, c) bouncing mail.

La 0.3 Released

Reply #29 –
As promised I've released the linux version now, so instead of debating whether a closed source release will work on many systems you can now download it instead and see. Here's the quote from the website:

Quote
Features an xmms plugin. As the first release, I expect there could be problems running it on some systems. Please let me know whether or not it works on yours!

The linux version is about 15% slower than the windows version and also bigger, but should otherwise be identical to the respective windows version


So, as I say, please let me know if you find any problems or not. I'm no great Linux expert and I've only tested it on a grand total of 2 linux systems, but it seems to work fine .

La 0.3 Released

Reply #30 –
Quote
As promised I've released the linux version now, so instead of debating whether a closed source release will work on many systems you can now download it instead and see. Here's the quote from the website:

Quote
Features an xmms plugin. As the first release, I expect there could be problems running it on some systems. Please let me know whether or not it works on yours!

The linux version is about 15% slower than the windows version and also bigger, but should otherwise be identical to the respective windows version


So, as I say, please let me know if you find any problems or not. I'm no great Linux expert and I've only tested it on a grand total of 2 linux systems, but it seems to work fine .


I tried it in a chroot jail on one of my Redhat boxen (RH7.3, P3 500Mhz).  Did a real quick test from 3 of the files from my normal suite:

Code: [Select]
dream theater: 6:00 (progressive rock)
         size       encode  decode
wav      58466060
la       42718127   518sec  492sec
flac -5  44402691    30sec   14sec

eddie warner: titus (jazz)
         size       encode  decode
wav      27866540
la       14763757   242sec  229sec
flac -5  15113039    14sec    6sec

ravel: fanfare from "l'eventail de jeanne" (classical, ends with gong fading to silence)
         size       encode  decode
wav      20815244
la        6462537   176sec  167sec
flac -5   7706659     9sec    4sec


la definitely compresses better, but is 17-20x slower encoding and 40x slower decoding (1.5x realtime).

Josh

Edit: P.S. How do you do a fixed-width font here?  I thought the CODE tag used to work.

La 0.3 Released

Reply #31 –
Did one more test, the bad news is it looks like la is not always lossless.  I generated a 16-bit stereo WAV file of noise to work with:

Code: [Select]
$ ls -l noise.wav
-rw-rw-r--    1 jcoalson jcoalson  1572908 Oct 24 11:34 noise.wav
$ chroot /work/chroot/ /la /noise.wav

Lossless Audio Compresser
Version 0.3b, copyright Michael Bevin '02

Finished /noise.wav - size: 1581517 ratio: 100.6% time taken: 14.3s
$ mv noise.wav noise-save.wav
$ chroot /work/chroot/ /la /noise.la 

Lossless Audio Compresser
Version 0.3b, copyright Michael Bevin '02

Finished /noise.la - time taken: 13.5s        
Warning: CRC check failed!

$ ls -l noise*
-rw-r--r--    1 jcoalson jcoalson  1581517 Oct 24 11:36 noise.la
-rw-rw-r--    1 jcoalson jcoalson  1572908 Oct 24 11:34 noise-save.wav
-rw-r--r--    1 jcoalson jcoalson  1572908 Oct 24 11:37 noise.wav
$ md5sum *wav
8f1f07f01bb5044759836e0207ecb22b  noise-save.wav
2c009dd046c2729af451e18da28aa636  noise.wav
$ cmp *.wav
noise-save.wav noise.wav differ: char 46, line 1
$ cmp -l noise*.wav | head -20
    46  62 262
    48 210  10
160584  14 214
160585  75 323
160586  62  55
160587 231  60
160588 300  77
160589 105 122
160590 244 235
160591 322 352
160592 260  64
160593 140  54
160594 373 371
160595 352 143
160596  77 263
160597 261 162
160598 104 101
160599 345 274
160600  23 200
160601  54 200


So I tried the '-debug' option but it doesn't look like it'll be much help:

Code: [Select]
$ chroot /work/chroot/ /la -debug -overwrite /noise.wav

Lossless Audio Compresser
Version 0.3b, copyright Michael Bevin '02

Finished /noise.wav - size: 1581517 ratio: 100.6% time taken: 14.5s
$ cat debugenc.txt 
Debug information ...

Layer 0 budget-crc: -43872
Layer 1 budget-crc: -20449
Layer 2 budget-crc: 39609
Layer 3 budget-crc: -16845
Layer 4 budget-crc: 8058
Layer 5 budget-crc: -15236
Layer 6 budget-crc: 2632
Layer 7 budget-crc: -1851
Layer 8 budget-crc: 4832

Profiling information ...

Entropy Coding: 1920000
Loading data from wav: 30000
entiretransforms: 12490000
everything: 14490000
stage0: 0
stage1: 120000
stage2: 1150000
stage3: 1650000
stage4: 1060000
stage5: 3440000
stage6: 1910000
stage7: 1740000
stage8: 1260000

$


Josh

La 0.3 Released

Reply #32 –
Quote
Edit: P.S. How do you do a fixed-width font here?  I thought the CODE tag used to work.

It worked in vB. Doesn't work in Invision. :/

La 0.3 Released

Reply #33 –
Quote
Did one more test, the bad news is it looks like la is not always lossless. I generated a 16-bit stereo WAV file of noise to work with:


thats worrying alright. damn ... i know that la's been tested and worked on pure noise samples before, so i'm guessing (hoping) its just a problem with the linux version, but i'll definately have a good look into whats going on here.

btw, the -debug option (which i didn't think was documented so i'm not sure how you discovered it, maybe just an educated guess?) helps if you use it when both encoding + decoding - then you can compare the 'budget crc' values and work out at which layer things are going wrong.


Quote
la definitely compresses better, but is 17-20x slower encoding and 40x slower decoding (1.5x realtime).


yeah, that about sums it up. la aims at a different end of the speed/compression ratio than flac basically.

La 0.3 Released

Reply #34 –
Quote
Quote
Did one more test, the bad news is it looks like la is not always lossless. I generated a 16-bit stereo WAV file of noise to work with:


thats worrying alright. damn ... i know that la's been tested and worked on pure noise samples before, so i'm guessing (hoping) its just a problem with the linux version, but i'll definately have a good look into whats going on here.


If you have a place for it I can send you the WAV file (you can PM me with the location if you like, it's about 1.5 meg).

Quote
btw, the -debug option (which i didn't think was documented so i'm not sure how you discovered it, maybe just an educated guess?)


Heh, I was just poking around the binary.    Kind of like taking apart an electronic toy you just got to see how it works...  I'm guessing the runtime is significantly determined by the NN which is hard to really speed up?  Just a guess.

Josh

La 0.3 Released

Reply #35 –
Quote
If you have a place for it I can send you the WAV file (you can PM me with the location if you like, it's about 1.5 meg).


thanks. i generated a 40mb noise file that broke it myself so i shouldn't need it ... btw, the windows version 0.3 seems broken too! (0.2 works at least). i guess it was kind of stupid of me to not test it on a noise file - i thought testing half a dozen or so albums with it was enough but obviously not.

Quote
Heh, I was just poking around the binary. smile.gif  Kind of like taking apart an electronic toy you just got to see how it works... I'm guessing the runtime is significantly determined by the NN which is hard to really speed up? Just a guess.


well, don't read too much into the names my classes have ...  but yeah, theres a form of neural net filter there which is a big determinant of the speed, but also the fact that there are 8 layers of filters makes it slow .

La 0.3 Released

Reply #36 –
ok, the problems been fixed, and i"ve put fixed versions for windows+linux on the homepage. still compatible with the previous 0.3x versions.

so, please do your best to try and break it again .

La 0.3 Released

Reply #37 –
Quote
well, don't read too much into the names my classes have ...  but yeah, theres a form of neural net filter there

Nice, seems that there are now at least 2 lossless codecs which use neural nets. Monkey's Audio and now LA. I'm wondering if LA would be as efficient if MA hadn't published its source.. And does that explain some other issues as well... 
Juha Laaksonheimo

La 0.3 Released

Reply #38 –
Quote
I'm wondering if LA would be as efficient if MA hadn't published its source.. And does that explain some other issues as well... 

IIRC, Matt didn't allow his sources (including his neural net) to be used in LA.

But, of course, it's possible to take a look at Monkey's code and get a grasp of it's ideas, without using a coma of Matt's code.

La 0.3 Released

Reply #39 –
Winamp seeking problem with large file is fixed!

La 0.3 Released

Reply #40 –
Quote
Winamp seeking problem with large file is fixed!


Glad you noticed

Quote
IIRC, Matt didn't allow his sources (including his neural net) to be used in LA.

But, of course, it's possible to take a look at Monkey's code and get a grasp of it's ideas, without using a coma of Matt's code


that about sums it up. i did get a few ideas from matt's code which i'm really grateful for. although i'm not about to release my own code (and would appreciate it if people please stop questioning me on this), i try to be open with how it works, because i myself have benefited from understanding how mac works and the other authors have generally been helpful when i've asked.