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Topic: What's the best way to increase loudness while preventing clipping? (Read 1574 times) previous topic - next topic
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What's the best way to increase loudness while preventing clipping?

Hello, I'm new to foobar and all so pardon me if I'm wording this wrong or get confused from explanations but here goes.

I'm applying replaygain to my songs because I want them to have consistent loudness, but I also want them to be louder. I know it's mostly not good to mess with the preamp function (especially with dynamic music) but I don't know any other way to increase the loudness. It's not like increasing the db on the replaygain will be any better so...

Do I just use "apply gain and prevent clipping according to peak info"? (Wouldn't me upping the pre-amp undo this?)

Or do I just "apply gain" and add an advanced limiter?

Re: What's the best way to increase loudness while preventing clipping?

Reply #1 –
Now that Foobar has its own VST host plugin (https://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_dsp_vst3), I find the best way to do this is by installing a user-adjustable limiter/compressor VST plugin.  I use the Sonic Anomaly "Unlimited" plugin (https://plugins4free.com/plugin/2843/) that lets me apply the amounts of limitation and compression that fit my ears. FWIW, I do not use Replay Gain.

Re: What's the best way to increase loudness while preventing clipping?

Reply #3 –
I don't remember seeing a function like Monitor Gain in foobar unless I missed it. Or do you mean simply turning the volume up? If the latter then I did and even at the highest volume it doesn't have a satisfying amount of loudness.

Re: What's the best way to increase loudness while preventing clipping?

Reply #4 –
The issue is this: digital output has an absolute hard limit ("clipping") when the value expressing the instantaneous signal level (voltage at the output) reaches its maximum possible (for a 16-bit signal: +32,767) or its minimum possible (-32,768).  The digital-to-analogue stage in the player takes those values and converts them to analogue voltages according to what the maximum line voltage for the player output is (governed but the supply voltage), and those values will typically correspond with about ±2.5V.  That's the maximum you can get.

Ideally, typically you want less than that, to allow for waveform peaks not to get clipped.

But you're not expected to run loudspeakers from the line output of a player, even if the line output sometimes has a headphones symbol on it.  The line output is meant to feed a power amplifier, capable of amplifying the signal on its line input to much higher output voltages (and currents).

Basically, if your audio isn't loud enough, you need a bigger amp (and suitable speakers).
It's your privilege to disagree, but that doesn't make you right and me wrong.

Re: What's the best way to increase loudness while preventing clipping?

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Kyddo on
I don't remember seeing a function like Monitor Gain in foobar unless I missed it. Or do you mean simply turning the volume up? If the latter then I did and even at the highest volume it doesn't have a satisfying amount of loudness.

In which case you need a bigger/better/louder sound system. Crushing the digital data louder will give you a tiny bit more volume, but only a dB or so before the artefacts from the compression/limiting/clipping become detrimental to the sound quality. Get a better amp/speaker etc.

Re: What's the best way to increase loudness while preventing clipping?

Reply #6 –
I see. So by the time I get a better amp or speaker, the changes I would have done to the audio would be too drastic or too noticable. I'll leave it alone. I was considering pre-amping it up no more than three db but I guess even that's kind of pushing it huh.

Re: What's the best way to increase loudness while preventing clipping?

Reply #7 –
Would increasing the replaygain db to like 92 work then (is that even possible or is it forced on 89 db)? Because unlike pre-amping, replaygain doesn't alter the data of the file. So whenever I need to I can just put the song in foobar and take out the replaygain info, thus putting it back to normal, whenever I get a better speaker.

Re: What's the best way to increase loudness while preventing clipping?

Reply #8 –
So I guess you don't even want to TRY using a free VST compressor specifically designed to make your music sound louder??  If not, that's your call, darkflame23 and fooball's advice is excellent too but then you have to spend money first (or borrow some gear from a friend).

Re: What's the best way to increase loudness while preventing clipping?

Reply #9 –
Sorry! I did check out the plugin. I was just wondering if I should utilize it or not. I'll experiment with it and see if it's right for me. Thank you for the suggestion.

Re: What's the best way to increase loudness while preventing clipping?

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Kyddo on
Would increasing the replaygain db to like 92 work then (is that even possible or is it forced on 89 db)? Because unlike pre-amping, replaygain doesn't alter the data of the file. So whenever I need to I can just put the song in foobar and take out the replaygain info, thus putting it back to normal, whenever I get a better speaker.
It doesn't matter how you do it, maximum is maximum.  The best you can do whether by pre-amping or ReplayGain is scale the data so that the absolute peak level for a track is the maximum.  Any more than that and the peaks will get clipped.  The purpose of pre-amping or ReplayGain is to restore tracks which have been recorded "quiet" to a normality.  The target dB for ReplayGain is set to allow a reasonable dynamic range before the onset of clipping (but very dynamic tracks might still clip).

Compressors (eg VST) reduce the dynamic range of a track, which means the softer parts are made selectively louder without boosting the peaks into clipping.  This will give an overall impression that the track is louder, even though the loud peaks are not.  It's intended to overcome noisy environments where the soft bits get lost below the noise floor.

If your problem is background noise, then a compressor will help.  If the fundamental problem is that your audio system isn't powerful enough, there is only one solution.
It's your privilege to disagree, but that doesn't make you right and me wrong.

Re: What's the best way to increase loudness while preventing clipping?

Reply #11 –
Got it. Thank you. I finally have a much better understanding of the whole issue. I'll probably just leave it the way it is then and keep the files I originally got them. I'll keep in mind to search for headphones with better loudness specs (currently have the Sony wf-1000xm4 earbuds. Fantastic quality but just want it to be a little louder. Perhaps the issue is the phone I play my music from haha.)
 

Re: What's the best way to increase loudness while preventing clipping?

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Kyddo on
Got it. Thank you. I finally have a much better understanding of the whole issue. I'll probably just leave it the way it is then and keep the files I originally got them. I'll keep in mind to search for headphones with better loudness specs (currently have the Sony wf-1000xm4 earbuds. Fantastic quality but just want it to be a little louder. Perhaps the issue is the phone I play my music from haha.)

Are you sure you don't have some kind of volume limiter set on your phone, or the headphone setup app? I know in iOS now there's a setting someone to limit max gain for hearing safety.

Re: What's the best way to increase loudness while preventing clipping?

Reply #13 –
Perhaps you could have mentioned earbuds in the first place!  They're a whole 'nother matter!!  Being connected by Bluetooth, that represents another link in the digital chain which imposes its own digital limit.  When it comes to reproduction, I can't find (after a brief google) a specification for wf-1000xm4 sound pressure level or the resolution of the DAC (only that the Bluetooth link supports 24 bit), even the What HiFi review only states "improved DAC".  I don't know how you could go about finding a louder pair without published specifications.

As earbuds direct energy straight into the ear with very little leakage, it is unlikely they won't be loud enough (unless the user is deaf).  As said above, there will be limiting applied at the phone end to avoid litigation.  That's nothing to do with the music file nor player software, and is an operating system function (the user is invited to accept their own liability to override it).  However, if you haven't already, you should have a look at Sony's Headphones Connect app:

Quote
The circular outer surface of each earpiece is a touchpad and, by using the Headphones Connect app, you can customise the functionality of each one. They can control volume and playback or switch between noise-cancelling and ambient sound modes through the usual combination of taps, presses and long holds

I don't know whether that means the earbud button operates directly or sends volume commands to the phone to act in parallel with the phone's volume buttons, but it's worth exploring.
It's your privilege to disagree, but that doesn't make you right and me wrong.

Re: What's the best way to increase loudness while preventing clipping?

Reply #14 –
Oh okay. This gives me peace of mind knowing it's just the operator system function that is responsible for the volume limiting. Makes sense. Plays louder on my laptop which I like so yeah, no need to mess with the files I suppose. Also sorry for not mentioning the earbuds earlier.