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Topic: CUESHEETS and tags like "ENSEMBLE", "WORK" (Read 5909 times) previous topic - next topic
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CUESHEETS and tags like "ENSEMBLE", "WORK"

Hi,

I wanted to embed a cuesheet into an .ape file to preserve the 15 tracks (it's a symphony). I didn't want to split the file.

But tags like "WORK", "COMPOSER" and "ENSEMBLE" are a MUST for me. But those don't follow the cuesheet standard AFAIK.

My question is: am I overseeing something, or are CUESHEETs not the way to go for me?

I think this is so useless. Where is the problem of having user definable tags in cuesheets in capitals... Which target system could be so stupid and not be able to parse this:

Code: [Select]
PERFORMER "Gustav Mahler"
TITLE "Gustav Mahler - Symphonie No.9"
FILE "cd1.ape" WAVE
  TRACK 01 AUDIO
    TITLE "1 : Andante Comodo"
    WORK "Symphony No. 9 in D major"
    INDEX 01 00:00:00

CUESHEETS and tags like "ENSEMBLE", "WORK"

Reply #1 –
Cue sheets were never intended to be used as playlists.

What I find funny funny the program most likely responsible for bastardizing the cue sheet no longer supports those of the noncompliant variety.

CUESHEETS and tags like "ENSEMBLE", "WORK"

Reply #2 –
REM WORK would be acceptable I believe if I'm understanding what makes a valid cuesheet.  The reason being is that it makes a comment line.  Now the question would be if the parser was smart enough to deal with this.

I don't know what program you use to listen to your music, but if you use foobar2000 just embed the cuesheet in the .ape file and it'll deal with all the rest.  And it'll allow for tags like WORK, COMPOSER, and ENSEMBLE.  I know because I have a few discs that I do use the COMPOSER tag.

EDIT: It looks like that COMPOSER is an already defined keyword in the specification.
Nero AAC 1.5.1.0: -q0.45

CUESHEETS and tags like "ENSEMBLE", "WORK"

Reply #3 –
Quote from: DreamTactix291 on
REM WORK would be acceptable I believe if I'm understanding what makes a valid cuesheet.
Anything's acceptable with a REM in front of it. 

Quote from: DreamTactix291 on
EDIT: It looks like that COMPOSER is an already defined keyword in the specification.
Here's a link to a summary of the specification in case anyone is interested:
http://wyday.com/cuesharp/specification.php

CUESHEETS and tags like "ENSEMBLE", "WORK"

Reply #4 –
Quote from: greynol on
Quote from: DreamTactix291 on
REM WORK would be acceptable I believe if I'm understanding what makes a valid cuesheet.
Anything's acceptable with a REM in front of it. 
But useless, because can't be used by the player.

Quote from: DreamTactix291 on
I don't know what program you use to listen to your music, but if you use foobar2000 just embed the cuesheet in the .ape file and it'll deal with all the rest.  And it'll allow for tags like WORK, COMPOSER, and ENSEMBLE.  I know because I have a few discs that I do use the COMPOSER tag.

FB2K does refuse to play such a file (with invalid tags like "WORK") without need. I will not discuss this bull**it any more.

To ask in short: Except for splitting the file to pieces or using only the "allowed" tags in the cuesheet there's no other solution, right?

CUESHEETS and tags like "ENSEMBLE", "WORK"

Reply #5 –
Why not be civil and read the cue specification?

Could you not use the Message field to contain the information that you require?
lossyWAV -q X -a 4 -s h -A --feedback 2 --limit 15848 --scale 0.5 | FLAC -5 -e -p -b 512 -P=4096 -S- (having set foobar to output 24-bit PCM; scaling by 0.5 gives the ANS headroom to work)

CUESHEETS and tags like "ENSEMBLE", "WORK"

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Nick.C on
Could you not use the Message field to contain the information that you require?
a) afaics this is a CD-TEXT field, b) fb2k doesn't support this, c) I wouldn't be able to display the required information (see first post) inside the player.

I've finally split the file to 4 files (movements of the symphony) and put the original cuesheet, just to preserve the track information, to a cuesheet tag.

EDIT: There seems to be one solution to this, at least when transcoding to lossy. Now I remember why I was first optimistic about the issue: I have some aac files with chapters (it's something like embedded cuesheets). I had a look: They can hold any tags without making fb2k complain. Unfortunately the export handling is quite limited (see the number of answers here). There's a fb2k plugin which exports to cuesheets. Because of the limitation of cues, it does not export incompliant tags.

CUESHEETS and tags like "ENSEMBLE", "WORK"

Reply #7 –
Quote from: Squeller on
Quote from: Nick.C on
Could you not use the Message field to contain the information that you require?
a) afaics this is a CD-TEXT field, b) fb2k doesn't support this, c) I wouldn't be able to display the required information (see first post) inside the player.

I've finally split the file to 4 files (movements of the symphony) and put the original cuesheet, just to preserve the track information, to a cuesheet tag.

EDIT: There seems to be one solution to this, at least when transcoding to lossy. Now I remember why I was first optimistic about the issue: I have some aac files with chapters (it's something like embedded cuesheets).


This comes up here now and again. The main intention of these seems to be to enable so-called "enhanced podcasts" and it's possible to find out a little more by googling on that. There was a beta version of a tool from Apple for doing it, but I don't think it's around now. IIRC, Garage Band now has the functionality--but there's nothing currently available cross-platform.

FWIW, I can't say I see any particular problem with different movements of a symphony being in different files. I can't recall Mahler 9 in particular--although I've got it on CD--and I've never heard it live, nor read up on the composer's intentions, so I don't know whether one movement is supposed to flow into another, but in general a brief pause between movements in a symphony is hardly unusual.

CUESHEETS and tags like "ENSEMBLE", "WORK"

Reply #8 –
Quote from: Nick E on
FWIW, I can't say I see any particular problem with different movements of a symphony being in different files. I can't recall Mahler 9 in particular--although I've got it on CD--and I've never heard it live, nor read up on the composer's intentions, so I don't know whether one movement is supposed to flow into another, but in general a brief pause between movements in a symphony is hardly unusual.

Nonono  Read my first posting again. The 2 CDs (2x2 movements) are organized into 2x15 tracks. I wanted to keep the complete track information. Of course, from the gapless point of view, split files aren't a problem any more. At least not here, as a notebook with fb2k on it is the first part in the audio chain.

CUESHEETS and tags like "ENSEMBLE", "WORK"

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Squeller on
Code: [Select]
PERFORMER "Gustav Mahler"
TITLE "Gustav Mahler - Symphonie No.9"
FILE "cd1.ape" WAVE
  TRACK 01 AUDIO
    TITLE "1 : Andante Comodo"
    WORK "Symphony No. 9 in D major"
    INDEX 01 00:00:00

In this case I'd use "TITLE "Symphony No. 9 in D major - I. Andante Comodo" and
PERFORMER "Berliner Philharmoniker - Herbert von Karajan"

You don't have to split to tracks to use cuesheets as a playlist for an image or a long track.

CUESHEETS and tags like "ENSEMBLE", "WORK"

Reply #10 –
You can tag the .ape with COMPOSER, ENSEMBLE, WORK and anything else you want. (I use CONDUCTOR, DISC, TOTALDISCS, PUBLISHER) In cue sheet I have DATE, and GENRE (REM lines, of course). Foobar then combines the tags from the .ape and the .cue and everything is ok. The only problem is if the disc has tracks with multiple composers and is ripped as one file.
If age or weaknes doe prohibyte bloudletting you must use boxing

CUESHEETS and tags like "ENSEMBLE", "WORK"

Reply #11 –
Quote from: eevan on
You can tag the .ape with COMPOSER, ENSEMBLE, WORK and anything else you want. (I use CONDUCTOR, DISC, TOTALDISCS, PUBLISHER) In cue sheet I have DATE, and GENRE (REM lines, of course). Foobar then combines the tags from the .ape and the .cue and everything is ok.

This is what I do too. I give the source audio file all tags that are common to each track in the cue sheet.

Quote
The only problem is if the disc has tracks with multiple composers and is ripped as one file.

For holding track specific info I create APL files of the cue sheet. APL files can be tagged like any standard track files without limitations. For playback and conversion I use these APL files instead of the cue file. After I have created the APL files I use the cue file only if want to burn an exact duplicate of the CD (very rarely).

Actually, it is unnecessary to tag the source audio file if APL files are used, but I do that anyway for maximizing compatibility with various programs and devices. For example, sometimes I convert the source audio files directly to full album MP3 files for a portable player that does not support gapless playback.

Edit: typo

CUESHEETS and tags like "ENSEMBLE", "WORK"

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Alex B on
For holding track specific info I create APL files of the cue sheet.

That is definitely the best way when handling APE images!
If age or weaknes doe prohibyte bloudletting you must use boxing
 

CUESHEETS and tags like "ENSEMBLE", "WORK"

Reply #13 –
In general/off topic/rant... I'm quite irritated with CUE SHEET's limitations and fed up with thinking of ways to keep as much correct album information in those files as possible.

Currently I let foobar2000 do the work and don't worry how it looks "inside" of my rips. When I copy a CD to my PC for listening and transcoding I choose a single image file and tag it with the cue sheet in order to access the tracks of that CD rip. All meta data is then added via foobar2000.

Honestly I wouldn't care less if from one day to the next all CD-related software I can think of wouldn't write and read any other data to the cue sheets than FILE, TRACK, INDEX and FLAG. And for the rest use tags instead.

Or dump this outdated file format for good and use something that makes sense in our day and age, like a XML-based album document that can either be an external file or tagged into the audio file(s).