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Topic: @Ivan - Any chance to encode HE-AAC at 70-80kbps? (Read 4980 times) previous topic - next topic
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@Ivan - Any chance to encode HE-AAC at 70-80kbps?

Hi

I have a question (especially for ivan dimkovic):

Is it possible to add he-aac encoding at a little bit higher bitrates than now in the nero aac plugin, for example between 70 and 80kbps?

i dont know if this is technically possible, if yes, it would be great if that could be implemented (cbr and vbr)
I know, that I know nothing (Socrates)

@Ivan - Any chance to encode HE-AAC at 70-80kbps?

Reply #1 –
I have Nero 6 Ultra and you can do 70-80 kbps with HE no problem.
Every passing minute is another chance to turn it all around.

@Ivan - Any chance to encode HE-AAC at 70-80kbps?

Reply #2 –
Don't have Nero 6 here at work, but I'm almost 100% there was a HE AAC VBR setting in the 70-80 kbps range.

@Ivan - Any chance to encode HE-AAC at 70-80kbps?

Reply #3 –
The presets are limited to a max of 80kbps - CBR and 50 - 70kbps VBR.

@Ivan - Any chance to encode HE-AAC at 70-80kbps?

Reply #4 –
Quote
The presets are limited to a max of ... 50 - 70kbps VBR.

sorry i didnt made myself clear

yes, i meant 70-80kbps for vbr too...
I know, that I know nothing (Socrates)

@Ivan - Any chance to encode HE-AAC at 70-80kbps?

Reply #5 –
I agree bond. I would like to see more higher bitrate VBR settings for HE AAC under Nero 6. I tried to set it for higher than the 50-70 VBR setting and it kept switching me from HE AAC to LC AAC!

Nero devlopers, could you add some more presets for VBR HE AAC at higher bitrates (say 70 to 80k) and perhaps even a bit higher (90 to 100k also)?

The 50-70k preset as the maximum VBR rate seems a bit limited...

Thanks!

@Ivan - Any chance to encode HE-AAC at 70-80kbps?

Reply #6 –
Quote
Nero devlopers, could you add some more presets for VBR HE AAC at higher bitrates (say 70 to 80k) and perhaps even a bit higher (90 to 100k also)?

<guessing>most likely he acc is worse that using plain aac after this bitrates?</guessing>
PANIC: CPU 1: Cache Error (unrecoverable - dcache data) Eframe = 0x90000000208cf3b8
NOTICE - cpu 0 didn't dump TLB, may be hung

@Ivan - Any chance to encode HE-AAC at 70-80kbps?

Reply #7 –
I guess it all boils down to the question of at what bitrate is HE AAC transparent (sounds just like original) for normal users?

I have yet to see anyone post a description of the difference between CBR and VBR (i.e. which is best or the preferred method) for encoding HE AAC. Also I would like to see what bitrate in both VBR and CBR correlates to what quality (good, best, better, etc.) for HE AAC. That way we can all make better decisions as what to choose (VBR or CBR) and what bitrate when encoding HE AAC files.

Perhaps 50-70k VBR is the best or maybe 80k CBR, but no one on this forum has so far responded to my requests for answers to my questions about bitrates and CBR vs. VBR. I just need a little guidance so I don't use too low or too high of a bitrate when encoding my audio files.

Perhaps someone out there has written the definitive guide or white paper on how to encode audio files using HE AAC? I think a tutorial or guide on this subject on a web site or a PDF file would benefit many people new to HE AAC (like myself).

@Ivan - Any chance to encode HE-AAC at 70-80kbps?

Reply #8 –
ivan, plz answer!
I know, that I know nothing (Socrates)

@Ivan - Any chance to encode HE-AAC at 70-80kbps?

Reply #9 –
OK, I educated myself by reading other forums on Hydrogen Audio (tech mostly) and AudioCoding.com about this issue and I think I have the answer to the author of this post's question (and also my question):

HE AAC is only useful for CBR up to about 80k and for VBR up to about 70k. Above those bitrate numbers it is preferably to use LC AAC (either CBR or VBR) instead, as the SBR portion of HE AAC is only designed to be used at lower bitrates. After the bitrate gets higher, then encoding is best done with the normal LC AAC encoding scheme. That is why the presets are set the way they are in Nero 6. I thought it strange why they would be set like they are, but now I understand. The same idea applies to mp3pro... don't use mp3pro at bitrates above 96k, etc. as it is meant to boost the sound of lower bitrate recordings only, and should not be used for higher bitrates (use plain MP3 instead).

I was also looking for the best setting for transparency under HE AAC and couldn't find one... the reason is that HE AAC can't play transparent audio, as I believe it introduces artifacts when used at higher bitrates, hence the need to use LC AAC at higher bitrates for clean sound and/or transparency.

It appears that both HE AAC and MP3PRO were designed for the portable market (mp3 players, cell phones, etc.) and to enhance the audio sound of low bitrate applications (XM Radio, Digital Radio Mondiale, etc.). They are not designed (as I originally thought) to replace MP3 and/or LC AAC at higher bitrates when audio quality preservation is your objective.

So there you have it. If I am wrong please let me know.

@Ivan - Any chance to encode HE-AAC at 70-80kbps?

Reply #10 –
hm, of course he-aac isnt for higher bitrates but this doesnt give me the reason why there is the option to encode cbr at 70-80kbps and vbr only at 50-70kbps!?
I know, that I know nothing (Socrates)

@Ivan - Any chance to encode HE-AAC at 70-80kbps?

Reply #11 –
Quote
OK, I educated myself by reading other forums on Hydrogen Audio (tech mostly) and AudioCoding.com about this issue and I think I have the answer to the author of this post's question (and also my question):

HE AAC is only useful for CBR up to about 80k and for VBR up to about 70k. Above those bitrate numbers it is preferably to use LC AAC (either CBR or VBR) instead, as the SBR portion of HE AAC is only designed to be used at lower bitrates. After the bitrate gets higher, then encoding is best done with the normal LC AAC encoding scheme. That is why the presets are set the way they are in Nero 6. I thought it strange why they would be set like they are, but now I understand. The same idea applies to mp3pro... don't use mp3pro at bitrates above 96k, etc. as it is meant to boost the sound of lower bitrate recordings only, and should not be used for higher bitrates (use plain MP3 instead).

I was also looking for the best setting for transparency under HE AAC and couldn't find one... the reason is that HE AAC can't play transparent audio, as I believe it introduces artifacts when used at higher bitrates, hence the need to use LC AAC at higher bitrates for clean sound and/or transparency.

It appears that both HE AAC and MP3PRO were designed for the portable market (mp3 players, cell phones, etc.) and to enhance the audio sound of low bitrate applications (XM Radio, Digital Radio Mondiale, etc.). They are not designed (as I originally thought) to replace MP3 and/or LC AAC at higher bitrates when audio quality preservation is your objective.

So there you have it. If I am wrong please let me know.

If this is true, then I can't wait for some current high bitrate Nero LC AAC vs Vorbis GT3b1 ABX comparison results.  From what I am understanding here, the release of the HE AAC profile only affects low bitrate encodes, and nothing has changed with regards to high bitrates working towards transparency?  If that's true, it may not be as big of a deal for me to see HE AAC support built into hardware players come so soon (though it will still be nice when it comes).  I had been thinking that ANY bitrate could benefit from the HE AAC profile.  I guess this is not true.
WARNING:  Changing of advanced parameters might degrade sound quality.  Modify them only if you are expirienced in audio compression!

@Ivan - Any chance to encode HE-AAC at 70-80kbps?

Reply #12 –
Eh, it didn't even appear to my mind that it wouldn't be by now clear to everybody that AAC-HE is for lower bitrates (especially if one spends 10 minutes reading the AAC forums). There's been so much discussion about AAC-HE, mp3pro and Spectral Band Replication at HA and everywhere..
Juha Laaksonheimo

@Ivan - Any chance to encode HE-AAC at 70-80kbps?

Reply #13 –
Quote
hm, of course he-aac isnt for higher bitrates but this doesnt give me the reason why there is the option to encode cbr at 70-80kbps and vbr only at 50-70kbps!?

I am wondering if this isn't like asking a VBR setting for MP3 that would encode in the 320kbps range.

I mean.. if it is vbr, it is variating. The values given there, is the average it gets, not the values between which is variating. You get it?
 

@Ivan - Any chance to encode HE-AAC at 70-80kbps?

Reply #14 –
Quote
The values given there, is the average it gets, not the values between which is variating. You get it?

did i say something different?

i am talking about the presets, get it? and i am wondering why there isnt a preset that aims for the 70 (or 60) - 80 range...
I know, that I know nothing (Socrates)