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Topic: Increased file size with the latest LAME binaries from rarewares.org at VBR -V0 (Read 4196 times) previous topic - next topic
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Increased file size with the latest LAME binaries from rarewares.org at VBR -V0

Hello everybody,

I just tried the latest Windows-compile (2019-08-06) of the LAME 3.100 64bit bundle from rarewares.org and found that with the VBR -V0 setting the resulting .mp3-files are about 20% larger than with older compiles.  All other VBR settings do not seem to be affected.
 
Maybe someone can tell if this is a wanted effect or a bug.

Thanks for your answers.

Best regards
Christian

Re: Increased file size with the latest LAME binaries from rarewares.org at VBR -V0

Reply #1 –
I think the size increase is file specific, but there certainly is a size increase. The only change I can recall from the previous compile is: "Bug fix for item [ #496 ] A critical bug in init_xrpow_core_sse" in the file "xmm_quantize_sub.c" but I lack the knowledge to confirm whether that is the cause or whether there is some other reason.

Re: Increased file size with the latest LAME binaries from rarewares.org at VBR -V0

Reply #2 –
Hello John,

thanks for your reply.

I ran some tests today.

For the tests I used the rarewares.org compiles from 2019-07-22 and 2019-08-06. Both compiles identify themselves as "LAME 3.100.1".

First I tested if the computer or the Windows version and if the 32bit or 64bit compiles make a difference. The tests were done on an older Intel I5 laptop with Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit and a slightly newer Intel I5 laptop with Windows 10 Pro 64bit. All results described below were identical on both machines and both with the 32bit and 64bit compiles.

I took a 16 tracks with a total length of 54min 41sec and compressed them using the setting -V0.

With the 2019-07-22 compile the resulting MP3 files had a total size of 106MB. In foobar2000 I got an average bitrate of 271kbps over all tracks.

With the 2019-08-06 compile the result was 121MB and 310kbps. That is an increase in file size of a little more than 14%. This is also reflected in the individual tracks. So I don't think that the phenomenon only occurs with certain files.

Now I did the same tests with -V1 to -V4. Here the file sizes and the average bitrates of the MP3-files, compressed with both compiles, are identical.

So whatever is responsible for the larger files at -V0 must have happened between the 2019-07-22 and 2019-08-06 compile. Unfortunately it is difficult for me to determine if a change in the source code or if the compile process itself is the trigger for this.

I also could not find out if the mentioned bug #496 was fixed in the 2019-08-06 version or earlier. Anyway, the test sample for this bug, which can be found on sourceforge.net, can be compressed with both compiles without any problems.

I'm not sure now if I can or should report this as a bug on the LAME page at sourceforge.net.

Best regards
Christian

Re: Increased file size with the latest LAME binaries from rarewares.org at VBR -V0

Reply #3 –
test with -V0 --lowpass 19.5  and -V0 -Y

Re: Increased file size with the latest LAME binaries from rarewares.org at VBR -V0

Reply #4 –
Quote from: shadowking on
test with -V0 --lowpass 19.5  and -V0 -Y

Hello shadowking,

With the setting -V0 -Y, my test files with the older compiles have a total file size of 96.7MB and 257kbps. The newer compile produces a file size of 117MB and 301kbps. This is an increase of almost 21%.

With the setting -V0 --lowpass 19.5 however, the results are identical for both compiles 104MB and 268kbps.

This is interesting but does not explain the difference between the two versions because the older version with the default -V0 setting obviously does not use a lowpass filter either.

Best Regards
Christian

Re: Increased file size with the latest LAME binaries from rarewares.org at VBR -V0

Reply #5 –
Hey!  doubleXP ,
I recently updated my lame to 3.100 for 08-06-2019, the latest current available version of LAME Mp3.

I also noticed your finding about -V0 having a different bitrate and file size vs. previous LAME versions. 

I also noticed the change happened going from 3.100 07-22-2019 to 08-06-2019.   I've been going crazy on the internet for the last 2 days and I finally found your post.  I could not find anyone anywhere mention anything about this difference for -V0.

I see about the same differences as you.   such as the latest version gives me 311 kbps avg for a song and previous version gives 276 kbps.

I even tried the experiments of -Y and then --lowpass 19.5  and my results followed yours.

I hope we can figure out what's up with this. I might rather use the previous version of 3.100 if this extra bit rate & file size increase makes no sense.

thanks,
Wes

Re: Increased file size with the latest LAME binaries from rarewares.org at VBR -V0

Reply #6 –
Hello Wes,

thank you for your answer.

For me the increase of the file size at V0 in the last version on rarewares doesn't make sense either because the resulting bitrate is close to the maximum possible bitrate of 320 kbps with LAME.

I checked the official LAME page on sourceforge and found out that the last official stable version of LAME is v3.100 from 10/13/2017 and there only the source code. So I think that the version released on rarewares is more comparable to an alpha version or at best to a beta version.

In the bugtracker on sourceforge I couldn't find anything about the increase in file size. So I had thought about opening a ticket myself, but since only the source code is officially available I should have first made and compared compiles with different compilers on different operating systems to make sure that the compiler is not causing the problem. Since I have too little knowledge about programming I decided against it.

For me now the following options were available:

1. continue using the last version available on rarewares with V0 and live with the larger files.
2. switch to CBR 320 and live with the files which are only a little bit bigger than V0.
3. use the --lowpass 19.5 option
4. use the V1 quality
5. using an older LAME version

I went for the 5th option and I am now using the version from 07/22/2019. I will continue to test new versions that are released on rarewares and hope that the problem will be solved sometime in the future.

Best regards
Christian

Re: Increased file size with the latest LAME binaries from rarewares.org at VBR -V0

Reply #7 –
Another way is to accept V0 size as most using it dont care as much for efficiency. V0 in 3.98 & specially 3.99 / 3.100  is 'loaded' in a sense that its more brute force like to fille the gap between 256..320.  Before v3.98, it was like there was a missing preset for that range.

- V1 is also loaded in recent versions , but still overall results in bitrate of 224..256 across lame versions. Its a good choice IMO for cautious people as it allowes plenty 'excess'

Re: Increased file size with the latest LAME binaries from rarewares.org at VBR -V0

Reply #8 –
Hello shadowking,

thank you for your reply,

This may all be true, but it still does not explain the relatively dramatic increase in file size from one compile to the next of the same version number. Version 3.100.1 in this case.

The LAME documentation specifies an average bitrate of 245kbps for the -V0 option. This is not nearly reached with the compile of 08/06/2019, it is more like 310 kbps. In this case the -V0 option makes practically no sense in my opinion, since CBR files are only slightly (a little over 3%) larger at 320kbps.

Best regards
Christian

Re: Increased file size with the latest LAME binaries from rarewares.org at VBR -V0

Reply #9 –
 doubleXP ,

Can you check;

-V0 -f
-V0 --vbr-old

-f (aka -q7) will use a different noise shaping - i think NS 0
--vbr-old will force the old slower vbr . Behaviour will be similar to lame 3.97 and earlier.

Re: Increased file size with the latest LAME binaries from rarewares.org at VBR -V0

Reply #10 –
Quote from: shadowking on
Can you check;

-V0 -f
-V0 --vbr-old

Hello shadowking,

Here are the test results with the same files I used for the test in this post:

with the 07/22/2019 Compile
-V0 : 106MB 271kbps
-V0 -f: 97,8MB 250kbps
-V0 --vbr-old: 99.1MB 254kbps

with the 08/06/2019 Compile
-V0: 121MB 310kbps (ca. 14% increase)
-V0 -f: 116MB 299kbps (ca. 19% increase)
-V0 --vbr-old: 99.1MB 254kbps

With the -V0 -f option, the size increase is proportionally even higher compared to the 07/22/2019 version using the -V0 -f switch.
The --vbr-old seems to be implemented identically, which makes perfectly sense since the program code for this switch has obviously not been changed since the early LAME versions.

Best regards
Christian

Re: Increased file size with the latest LAME binaries from rarewares.org at VBR -V0

Reply #11 –
I have, off and on, been trying to identify what it is that changed within libmp3lame to cause this but beyond identifying that it is definitely within libmp3lame, I've drawn a blank. The compile options are the same and those few changes in the code which are responsible don't seem to want to be identified unless I'm missing something glaringly obvious, which is possible!! ;)

Re: Increased file size with the latest LAME binaries from rarewares.org at VBR -V0

Reply #12 –
Hello John,

thank you for your efforts.

Unfortunately, I can't contribute much help identifying the problem as I have no programming skills and only very few when it comes to compiling source code into binaries.

Best regards
 

Re: Increased file size with the latest LAME binaries from rarewares.org at VBR -V0

Reply #13 –
I've performed another SVN checkout this morning and I'm happy to say that whatever the issue was with the earlier version, it has now disappeared and the encoding results are as previously. I have tested win32 and x64 compiles and both produce the same results. I will upload new compiles later this afternoon (my time!).

EDIT: New compiles now available at Rarewares. :)

Re: Increased file size with the latest LAME binaries from rarewares.org at VBR -V0

Reply #14 –
Hello John,

that's very good news.

I have just tested the 64bit version and can confirm that the bitrate of the encoded MP3 files is identical to the version of 07/22/2019.

Thanks again for your time and effort.

Cheers
Christian

Re: Increased file size with the latest LAME binaries from rarewares.org at VBR -V0

Reply #15 –
Hey John and Christian,
Thank you for your speedy responses and actions. I am pleasantly surprised with the new build release already.  I have also used it to confirm that I saw the V0 mp3 bitrate results return back to what was seen in previous versions.

Thanks again!
Wesley