Strange Sample

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Strange Sample

2004-08-16 23:11:59

I found a very stange sample, every time I copied the original CD I got on the CD-R a read error ~16:17.

I tested this with different media (CR-R/CD-RW, div. brands) but the error was still at the same time ~16:17 min.
I isolated the range from the original CD (last 12s) and burned it - the read error happend again in the same range of the song.

What is wrong with this sample, did my recorder produce these errors?
Can anybody verify the phenomena?!

You'll find the sample here: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=26180

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Original sample from:
Jamie Cullum - Twentysomething CATALOG 0602498655740
Track 4 "Twentysomething" ISRC GBEKZ0300059
Original CD Track CRC: CRC 5F59BCB5 (with both drives)

No read errors on th original CD, I got 10x the same CRC with both
drives for this track

Errors at:
CD-R Copy : ca. 16:17.234 (absolute position)
Position on Track 4 : ca. 03:39:xx (relative position)

Error on isolated sample
Position Cut Version : ca. 00:10.487
Cut Version : CRC 73E85A74 (ripped with PX40TS)

CD-Reader:
Plextor PX-40TS Firmware 1.14
Teac CD-W516EB Firmware 1.0K

CD-Writer
Teac CD-W516EB Firmware 1.0K

Software reading: EAC V0.95pb5 (Secure noC2, allow speed down), PlexTools Pro V2.16 (DAE error recovery type 5, allow speed down)
Software recording: Nero V6.3.1.10, Feurio 1.67

Strange Sample

Reply #1 – 2004-08-17 00:05:06

I couldn't find anything wrong with it, so I reversed it and then slowed it down a whole lot. Now it's a lot better.

Strange Sample

Reply #2 – 2004-08-17 00:30:11

Copy protected CD?

Strange Sample

Reply #3 – 2004-08-17 07:40:33

I extracted your sample to WAV and burned it at 24x and then at 4x.

Scanning the first burn with Q-Check C1/C2 Test at 10-24x revealed 100+ C2 errors and over 200 CUs. Lowering the scan speed to 4x produced 27 C1 errors.
The 4x burn exhibited no CU errors when scanned at 10-24x, and the few C2 disappeared when scanned at 4x (28 C1s only).

EAC had no trouble reading either CD-R. It breezed through both in 12 sec each (Secure mode+C2), reporting track quality 100% and CRC 73E85A74.

The test were conducted with the following:
-Plextor CD-R Premium
-PlexTools Pro v2.12
-EAC v0.95pb5
-cheap TDK-branded CMC CD-Rs

So it must a hardware problem, I thought. Having great faith in Plextor h/w, I decided to add Nero (v6.3.1.20) to the test, though.

Another three CD-Rs later (at 24x, 8x and 4x) I can claim with confidence that the ball is in Nero's court. All three discs had around 300 (!) CUs(no matter the Q-Check test scan speed) and EAC choked on the first two.

So you only recourse may be to record at 4x.

Strange Sample

Reply #4 – 2004-08-17 08:18:38

I remember an old article at digit-life.com.
They managed to produce an AVI that would produce read errors on most drives. It was because (from memory) there was some bit sequences in the AVI that looked like cd synchronisation codes.

Strange Sample

Reply #5 – 2004-08-17 10:14:40

Quote

I remember an old article at digit-life.com.
They managed to produce an AVI that would produce read errors on most drives. It was because (from memory) there was some bit sequences in the AVI that looked like cd synchronisation codes.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=234994"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Very interesting thought, but the read errors are not on the original CD, only on the copy.

I think I found the "bug"...

If I remember correctly, Nero and Feurio have the same (or based on the same) core-burnengine and both produce these CD-R read errors.

I tested EAC's and Burrn's (cdrdao.exe) engine... no problems and no read errors on the copys.

I think the NERO/Feurio Burnengine has a bug and is the cause of read errors on the copy.

Edit: Is my conclusion right, can you verify it?
AND
"Thank You" to all (especially Never_Again) who burned the sample and screw up many CD-R's

Strange Sample

Reply #6 – 2004-08-17 12:29:31

I remember the synchronization story too, but I thought that this bug was corrected long ago in computer drives.
It rather sounds like a "weak sector" to me, like the ones they use in SafeDisc 2 CD ROM protection. I'll have a look.

Strange Sample

Reply #7 – 2004-08-17 13:27:13

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/magia-chisel/index.html

Strange Sample

Reply #8 – 2004-08-17 13:55:14

I remember something about cactus Data Shield 300 Builds ... rumour spreads that midbar changed copy protection from the reading to the writing stage ... if your CD is from 2004 this could be possible.

Strange Sample

Reply #9 – 2004-08-17 13:59:48

I've tested once again a Nero-recording with

Toshiba DVD-ROM SD-C2502
NEC DVD+RW ND-1100A (Dell OEM)

the drives failed to read the Nero/Feurio-recording.
The EAC/Burrn-recording was successfuly read.

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