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Topic: Parametric EQ and Crossfeed for Android? (Read 13134 times) previous topic - next topic
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Parametric EQ and Crossfeed for Android?

Hello,

I use my Android smartphone and IEM to listen to music from streaming platforms (Qobuz, Spotify and I may give a try to Tidal soon).

I am looking for Android application with:
  • Parametric EQ
  • Crossfeed
that I could use while listening from the streaming platforms mentioned above.

May you have suggestions?

Merci !

Fred

Re: Parametric EQ and Crossfeed for Android?

Reply #1 –
Quote from: lélé on
Hello,

I use my Android smartphone and IEM to listen to music from streaming platforms (Qobuz, Spotify and I may give a try to Tidal soon).

I am looking for Android application with:
  • Parametric EQ
  • Crossfeed
that I could use while listening from the streaming platforms mentioned above.

May you have suggestions?

Equalization of headphones is good, but I just don't get this crossfeed thing.

IME the most useful Eq app for headphones running under Android is called Neutralizer, and it is in the Google Play Store.

Re: Parametric EQ and Crossfeed for Android?

Reply #2 –
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
Quote from: lélé on
Hello,

I use my Android smartphone and IEM to listen to music from streaming platforms (Qobuz, Spotify and I may give a try to Tidal soon).

I am looking for Android application with:
  • Parametric EQ
  • Crossfeed
that I could use while listening from the streaming platforms mentioned above.

May you have suggestions?

Equalization of headphones is good, but I just don't get this crossfeed thing.

IME the most useful Eq app for headphones running under Android is called Neutralizer, and it is in the Google Play Store.

It is not exactly what I was looking for, but it seems interesting and I will give it a try. Thank you!

As for crossfeed, I think that some stereo tracks look very unnatural when listened to with headphones or IEMs. For example when a sound is only coming from one side. IMHO crossfeed solves this pretty convincingly.
 

Re: Parametric EQ and Crossfeed for Android?

Reply #3 –
I gave a try to Neutralizer and I'd like to thank you because it proposes a very interesting approach.

As far as I understood Neutralizer relies on Android EQ.
It seems to work fine with all my streaming applications: very good point!
I just regret it is limited to 12 bands which does not allow 'fine tuning' in the highs, where my (current) IEM frequency response curve is quite 'bumpy' and where my audition suffered more of abuse and time.

I am still looking for a solution for cross feed that can be used with my streaming application by the way...
Any suggestion?

Re: Parametric EQ and Crossfeed for Android?

Reply #4 –
Quote from: lélé on
I gave a try to Neutralizer and I'd like to thank you because it proposes a very interesting approach.

As far as I understood Neutralizer relies on Android EQ.
It seems to work fine with all my streaming applications: very good point!
I just regret it is limited to 12 bands which does not allow 'fine tuning' in the highs, where my (current) IEM frequency response curve is quite 'bumpy' and where my audition suffered more of abuse and time.

Equalizing every bump and null, and/or within a fraction of a dB does not necessarily contribute significantly to listening pleasure.

Our ability to even detect a frequency response discontinuity goes down as it gets narrower. 

Freedom from detection is a far more sensitive to what is required for the perception of natural balance, or listening pleasure.


Quote
I am still looking for a solution for cross feed that can be used with my streaming application by the way...
Any suggestion?

Fix the tracks.  Many audio editors have channel mixing features. Ideally, you'd access the .wav versions, add a little cross feed, and then re-apply any compression that you might have chosen.

IME there are not a large number of tracks that don't have any crossfeed at all or are objectionable because they have way too much separation.  For example, there are all those old Beetles tracks that are essentially two channel mono, with all of the instruments and voices slammed to one channel extreme to the exclusion of the other.  Those represent a short term phase, and for a variety of reasons including mono compatibility and compatibility with cheap LP players, that phase mostly went away pretty quickly.

Some recordings with extreme channel assignment and mixing or un-mixing are still made, but it seems like they were intentional, and part of the artistic experience of listening to them.

Re: Parametric EQ and Crossfeed for Android?

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
Quote from: lélé on
I gave a try to Neutralizer and I'd like to thank you because it proposes a very interesting approach.

As far as I understood Neutralizer relies on Android EQ.
It seems to work fine with all my streaming applications: very good point!
I just regret it is limited to 12 bands which does not allow 'fine tuning' in the highs, where my (current) IEM frequency response curve is quite 'bumpy' and where my audition suffered more of abuse and time.

Equalizing every bump and null, and/or within a fraction of a dB does not necessarily contribute significantly to listening pleasure.

Our ability to even detect a frequency response discontinuity goes down as it gets narrower. 

Freedom from detection is a far more sensitive to what is required for the perception of natural balance, or listening pleasure.


Quote
I am still looking for a solution for cross feed that can be used with my streaming application by the way...
Any suggestion?

Fix the tracks.  Many audio editors have channel mixing features. Ideally, you'd access the .wav versions, add a little cross feed, and then re-apply any compression that you might have chosen.

IME there are not a large number of tracks that don't have any crossfeed at all or are objectionable because they have way too much separation.  For example, there are all those old Beetles tracks that are essentially two channel mono, with all of the instruments and voices slammed to one channel extreme to the exclusion of the other.  Those represent a short term phase, and for a variety of reasons including mono compatibility and compatibility with cheap LP players, that phase mostly went away pretty quickly.

Some recordings with extreme channel assignment and mixing or un-mixing are still made, but it seems like they were intentional, and part of the artistic experience of listening to them.

Hello!

Many thanks for your answer.

As for the connection of 'bumps' and 'dips' in the highs, they can have very large amplitude (but narrow bandwidth) with headphones and, even worse, with IEM. Plus I guess those can be quite user dependent with IEM (depending on tips used, filters used and insertion depth). I would have been curious to see if it can be corrected with an EQ like Neutralizer.
But you might be right and the most important remains the general presentation. Plus I guess correction of large amplitude on narrow bandwidth may worsen things instead of correcting them (and introduce artefacts?).

Regarding excessive stereo separation, unfortunately, I cannot fix the tracks because I use streaming platforms. At the moment I am trying Qobuz and Spotify to assess which service suits me better. I will probably give a try to Tidal too.
In any case, I don't want to go back to the 'old fashioned way' for a lot of reasons, including:
  • I listen to music from my android device several hours per day. I enjoy discovering artists and albums that I don't know. For such purpose, streaming is very convenient and very cheap.
  • Ripping or downloading is too time consuming and too expansive(assuming you go for legal offer).
So I am still looking for an Android application that offer a good cross feed feature and can be used in parallel with streaming platforms apps.

Fred

Re: Parametric EQ and Crossfeed for Android?

Reply #6 –
And I doubt you'll be able to affect the audio on your whole device digitally, as that would be an avenue for copyright theft against those streaming platforms.

Re: Parametric EQ and Crossfeed for Android?

Reply #8 –
Quote from: kode54 on
And I doubt you'll be able to affect the audio on your whole device digitally, as that would be an avenue for copyright theft against those streaming platforms.

The existence of digital domain audio Android apps like Onkyo's HF player seems to suggest that there are some openings in the Android DRM wall.

I'm under the impression that Viper need to be rooted is more due to bravado than technology.  IOW the rooting is done in a misplaced concern that without rooting, the audio gets trashed.

Re: Parametric EQ and Crossfeed for Android?

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
Some recordings with extreme channel assignment and mixing or un-mixing are still made, but it seems like they were intentional, and part of the artistic experience of listening to them.
If the recording was made using studio monitors with acoustic "leakage" between left and right, it would seem that introducing some leakage when listening to headphones would make it sound more like the intent of the producer.

-k

Re: Parametric EQ and Crossfeed for Android?

Reply #10 –
Quote from: knutinh on
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
Some recordings with extreme channel assignment and mixing or un-mixing are still made, but it seems like they were intentional, and part of the artistic experience of listening to them.
If the recording was made using studio monitors with acoustic "leakage" between left and right, it would seem that introducing some leakage when listening to headphones would make it sound more like the intent of the producer.

If a recording is made by simply micing a live ensemble, then it is hard to avoid spillage between the channels.

With close micing, direct boxes, or mics that are clipped to or inside the instrument,  the inherent blending of the channels can be pretty low, and way short of providing a natural sound field, even when the ensemble is playing together while it is being recorded. In those cases if you listen to just the one channel feed, the rest of the ensemble is still audible (even direct boxes on pickups on an acoustic instrument), but concurrent masking  being as strong as it is, bleed has to be very strong to affect a quasi-normal stereo image.

The usual cause of extreme channel separation is track-at-a time production. This is often done with just a click track or a drum track, so there is little or no inherent blending of the whole ensemble.

Pan-potting channels is now very common, and the only time an instrument is slammed into just one channel or the other is either a mistake or someone is trying to make a point. 

Most of the legacy recordings that aren't pan-potted probably predate the general use of stereo consoles because they weren't readily available.  A lot of legacy (50s, early 60s)recordings were produced using mixers  designed for mono broadcasting or live sound.

Re: Parametric EQ and Crossfeed for Android?

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
If a recording is made by simply micing a live ensemble, then it is hard to avoid spillage between the channels.
If a recording is made by a sound engineer with ears, he/she will usually listen to the result and take actions accordingly. That may include moving microphones, turning a pan-pot or whatever.

If the system she is using (e.g. a couple of small Genelecs on top of the mixer) is significantly different from the system that I am using (e.g. a set of headphones) to listen to the finished recording, I am not hearing what she intended.

Trying to make my system match her reference system seems like one possible solution. So what is the main difference between headphones and studio monitors?

Another solution would be for record producers to make different masters for headphone and loudspeaker user.

-k

Re: Parametric EQ and Crossfeed for Android?

Reply #12 –
Quote from: knutinh on
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
If a recording is made by simply micing a live ensemble, then it is hard to avoid spillage between the channels.
If a recording is made by a sound engineer with ears, he/she will usually listen to the result and take actions accordingly. That may include moving microphones, turning a pan-pot or whatever.

That can be true in a studio, but monitoring with headphones at a live performance has been always difficult for me due to the problems with sound, especially bass leakage, even with high-isolation headphones and IEMs. 

I used to take a test recording out of the performance space and listen to it in a quiet place someplace else during intermissions, after rehearsals and before performances.

Re: Parametric EQ and Crossfeed for Android?

Reply #13 –
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
That can be true in a studio, but monitoring with headphones at a live performance has been always difficult for me due to the problems with sound, especially bass leakage, even with high-isolation headphones and IEMs. 

I used to take a test recording out of the performance space and listen to it in a quiet place someplace else during intermissions, after rehearsals and before performances.
I have a feeling of talking past each other here.

1. The OP asked for Crossfeed in an Android app, presumably when listening using headphones.
2. I understand your posts as you don't see the need for introducing cross channel leakage when listening using headphones ("Equalization of headphones is good, but I just don't get this crossfeed thing.")
3. I have suggested why introducing leakage in a playback device between channels when listening using headphones can make the experience better

-k

Re: Parametric EQ and Crossfeed for Android?

Reply #14 –
Quote from: knutinh on
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
That can be true in a studio, but monitoring with headphones at a live performance has been always difficult for me due to the problems with sound, especially bass leakage, even with high-isolation headphones and IEMs. 

I used to take a test recording out of the performance space and listen to it in a quiet place someplace else during intermissions, after rehearsals and before performances.
I have a feeling of talking past each other here.

1. The OP asked for Crossfeed in an Android app, presumably when listening using headphones.
2. I understand your posts as you don't see the need for introducing cross channel leakage when listening using headphones ("Equalization of headphones is good, but I just don't get this crossfeed thing.")
3. I have suggested why introducing leakage in a playback device between channels when listening using headphones can make the experience better

Yes, that and the not uncommon thread drift.  ;-)