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Topic: Remote Volume Control For Line Level Devices (Read 9958 times) previous topic - next topic
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Remote Volume Control For Line Level Devices

All,

I am currently looking for a volume controller for a line level device with a remote control.

Let me explain my setup first and maybe things will make more sense.  I have a TV with only optical out, so I bought a FIIO dac.  This is then linked to my active monitors (Yamaha HS7).  Unfortunately, this leaves me with no volume control (and being a TV, it is a requirement that it can be operated remotely).

The only thing I found so far is this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00NQ3VBS8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 but unfortunately I found it to be quite noisey at lower volumes. A thick white noise is present continually.

Does anyone else have suggestions for this sort of thing? I know a DAC with a built in remote volume would be the best solution, but I couldn't find one anywhere

Thanks,

T

Re: Remote Volume Control For Line Level Devices

Reply #1
How did you set up your HS7s for use with the volume control? If you banged the volume on the speakers up to 100%, the source of the white noise could be the speakers rather than the volume control. This will result in white noise no matter what other equipment you decide to use.

DACs with remote volume control are definitely out there, but they're not cheap. Certainly very expensive for the relatively simple task of interfacing between a TV and a set of active speakers.

https://emotiva.com/products/dacs/electronics/dacs/stealth-dc-1
http://www.matrix-digi.com/en/products/58/index.html#page1
http://www.audiolab.co.uk/product-detail.php?pid=13
http://www.arcam.co.uk/products,rSeries,USB-DAC,irdacii.htm

It seems that what you're looking for is a preamp, but since those are also mostly marketed at audiophiles (similar to the DACs above), they tend to be rather pricey. I'm using a second-hand NAD C165BEE in my own setup, and while I like it a lot, I would never pay full price for it (~$700).

An A/V receiver with line-level outputs could actually turn out to be your best choice. They're mass-produced devices, so the average price is reasonable. They all have remote controls as a matter of course. They all have digital inputs.

Re: Remote Volume Control For Line Level Devices

Reply #2
How did you set up your HS7s for use with the volume control? If you banged the volume on the speakers up to 100%, the source of the white noise could be the speakers rather than the volume control. This will result in white noise no matter what other equipment you decide to use.

It's certainly coming from the volume controller, as the noise does not exist when this component is not in the chain.

DACs with remote volume control are definitely out there, but they're not cheap. Certainly very expensive for the relatively simple task of interfacing between a TV and a set of active speakers.

https://emotiva.com/products/dacs/electronics/dacs/stealth-dc-1
http://www.matrix-digi.com/en/products/58/index.html#page1
http://www.audiolab.co.uk/product-detail.php?pid=13
http://www.arcam.co.uk/products,rSeries,USB-DAC,irdacii.htm

It seems that what you're looking for is a preamp, but since those are also mostly marketed at audiophiles (similar to the DACs above), they tend to be rather pricey. I'm using a second-hand NAD C165BEE in my own setup, and while I like it a lot, I would never pay full price for it (~$700).

An A/V receiver with line-level outputs could actually turn out to be your best choice. They're mass-produced devices, so the average price is reasonable. They all have remote controls as a matter of course. They all have digital inputs.

Yeah, I found that :-(  Seems silly to me because adding a volume controller to a DAC is a very simple task - certainly not something I want to pay more than £100 for.  A/V receivers and preamps are all physically very large items, and not something that I could hide behind the TV.  Maybe the solution I have at the moment is as good as I'll get, I guess some noise in the system isn't thew worst of outcomes. 

Tony

Re: Remote Volume Control For Line Level Devices

Reply #3
There are DIY kits available for infrared remote devices on Ebay and similar places, I don't know how good they are.

Similarly, just because the particular device you're using is noisy, doesn't mean they all are. But it's going to be a slog finding one that is noise free.

Re: Remote Volume Control For Line Level Devices

Reply #4
There are DIY kits available for infrared remote devices on Ebay and similar places, I don't know how good they are.

Similarly, just because the particular device you're using is noisy, doesn't mean they all are. But it's going to be a slog finding one that is noise free.

I had a good look at the DIY kits on eBay - they don't fill me with confidence.  Plus, I need one with an enclosure as it's a plasma TV, so quite a lot of electrical noise to be shielding

Re: Remote Volume Control For Line Level Devices

Reply #5
All,

I am currently looking for a volume controller for a line level device with a remote control.

Let me explain my setup first and maybe things will make more sense.  I have a TV with only optical out, so I bought a FIIO dac.  This is then linked to my active monitors (Yamaha HS7).  Unfortunately, this leaves me with no volume control (and being a TV, it is a requirement that it can be operated remotely).

The only thing I found so far is this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00NQ3VBS8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 but unfortunately I found it to be quite noisey at lower volumes. A thick white noise is present continually.

Does anyone else have suggestions for this sort of thing? I know a DAC with a built in remote volume would be the best solution, but I couldn't find one anywhere


The specs of the unit suggest better performance than this, but your setup is very susceptible to suboptimal setup rated to gain staging.

If you haven't already done so, set the input level controls on the active monitors as far down (CCW) as you can and still obtain acceptable maximum loudness.

Re: Remote Volume Control For Line Level Devices

Reply #6
All,

I am currently looking for a volume controller for a line level device with a remote control.

Let me explain my setup first and maybe things will make more sense.  I have a TV with only optical out, so I bought a FIIO dac.  This is then linked to my active monitors (Yamaha HS7).  Unfortunately, this leaves me with no volume control (and being a TV, it is a requirement that it can be operated remotely).

The only thing I found so far is this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00NQ3VBS8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 but unfortunately I found it to be quite noisey at lower volumes. A thick white noise is present continually.

Does anyone else have suggestions for this sort of thing? I know a DAC with a built in remote volume would be the best solution, but I couldn't find one anywhere


The specs of the unit suggest better performance than this, but your setup is very susceptible to suboptimal setup rated to gain staging.

If you haven't already done so, set the input level controls on the active monitors as far down (CCW) as you can and still obtain acceptable maximum loudness.


I've done this, thanks.  I'm still hoping for a better gain reduction solution though.   PS, anyone looking at TVs, Plasmas suck for amp/speaker interference

Re: Remote Volume Control For Line Level Devices

Reply #7
I'm surprised the TV optical out does not have an option to control volume. What TV is it?




Re: Remote Volume Control For Line Level Devices

Reply #11
OK, this is more common than I thought. I connect my soundbar via HDMI-ARC and that does control volume. I also have audio devices that control volume over SPDIF optical and coax.  Maybe video digital is special in that it needs to be bit-perfect to pass Dolby, etc.?

Re: Remote Volume Control For Line Level Devices

Reply #12
Not for pass-through, correct.  If it can't decode to PCM then it most certainly won't allow you to scale the volume.


Re: Remote Volume Control For Line Level Devices

Reply #14
No, but I have seen a good number of devices when I worked in the industry; perhaps more so with cable/satellite boxes than with TVs, however.

Most computers do it, so why would this seem so impossible with other devices?

Re: Remote Volume Control For Line Level Devices

Reply #15
No, but I have seen a good number of devices when I worked in the industry; perhaps more so with cable/satellite boxes than with TVs, however.

Most computers do it, so why would this seem so impossible with other devices?

No one said impossible. It's just far more difficult to implement as well as unnecessary for 99.99% of users

Re: Remote Volume Control For Line Level Devices

Reply #16
far more difficult to implement
Nonsense.

as well as unnecessary for 99.99% of users
Then I suppose you and I must be in the 0.01%.  I find that hard to believe.

In fact, if I should wager a guess I would say that Sony TVs are likely to provide this feature.

Please, stop pretending to know more than you know.

Re: Remote Volume Control For Line Level Devices

Reply #17
far more difficult to implement
Nonsense.

as well as unnecessary for 99.99% of users
Then I suppose you and I must be in the 0.01%.  I find that hard to believe.

In fact, if I should wager a guess I would say that Sony TVs are likely to provide this feature.

Please, stop pretending to know more than you know.

OK, we're getting off topic here but I feel I need to answer you due to the unpleasant tone you've chosen to use.

Yes, it is far more difficult to implement in mass production as it requires additional software and development, as well as a chipset or processor capable of doing such an operation.  We're talking TVs here, not computers. You need a user interface for it, as well as a method of actually processing volume changes on a digital level. This is not free. Not only that, you then need to account for the additional cost of supporting oddball features like this.  If you don't understand why a dumb optical output is easier to implement than a volume controlled output with user interface, then I cannot believe you are a mod on a forum like this.  Implementation is different from theory.

Secondly, yes I would think that I'm very likely in the 0.01%.  How many people actually hook up additional speakers to their TV? How many TVs only have optical out? How many people are silly enough to use active speakers? It's an estimate, not some elitist statement.

You're exaggerating both of my statements and the trying to belittle my knowledge? Where did I say I was knowledgeable about this? Where did I say it was impossible? Please excuse me if English is not your native language, but the tone you used with me I feel is unnecessary and certainly unwelcome.

My goodness, what a difficult place this forum is becoming.

Re: Remote Volume Control For Line Level Devices

Reply #18
Yes, it is far more difficult to implement in mass production as it requires additional software and development, as well as a chipset or processor capable of doing such an operation.
Again, nonsense.

If the TV can send PCM out of the S/PDIF then it only requires a few additional lines of code, and perhaps a small tweak to the audio portion of the setup menu.  I've seen companies make changes like this in as little as a few days, when on a tight schedule.

You clearly don't know what you're talking about.

How many people actually hook up additional speakers to their TV?
For those who don't like the sound of their TV speakers, quite a few.  As a portion of audio enthusiasts in forums such as this, an even larger number.

How many TVs only have optical out?
Again, quite a few, but sadly (and to your credit), optical outs with variable level controls are not as ubiquitous as some of us would like.

How many people are silly enough to use active speakers?
Considering that soundbars qualify, so the number is probably bigger than you may have at first thought.

Again, I've worked in the industry.  How about you?!?

Re: Remote Volume Control For Line Level Devices

Reply #19
Yes, it is far more difficult to implement in mass production as it requires additional software and development, as well as a chipset or processor capable of doing such an operation.
Again, nonsense.

If the TV can send PCM out of the S/PDIF then it only requires a few additional lines of code.

You clearly don't know what you're talking about.

How many people actually hook up additional speakers to their TV?
For those who don't like the sound of their TV speakers, quite a few.  As a portion of audio enthusiasts in forums such as this, an even larger number.

How many TVs only have optical out?
Again, quite a few, but sadly (and to your credit), optical outs with variable level controls are not as ubiquitous as some of us would like.

How many people are silly enough to use active speakers?
Considering that soundbars qualify, so the number is probably bigger than you may have at first thought.

Again, I've worked in the industry.  How about you?!?

If it's credentials you're after, I have a masters in Electrical Engineering, as well as a college level of education in Audio Engineering. And I still work in "the industry", and have done so long enough to know anyone who flaunts credentials is an idiot.

 Anyone who said it was "just a few lines of code" has no idea. How do you test and validate it? Did product planning justify it? How do we document it? Did the UI team design how it will be implemented. Do management understand it?

These are just some of the questions that need to be asked before implementing any feature. Just a few lines of code is a moronic level of simplification.

Why is a moderator encouraging me into an argument that is totally off topic? None of this attack is answering my question.

Re: Remote Volume Control For Line Level Devices

Reply #20
Clearly your credentials aren't doing much good in understanding that there is a very small step between fixed-level PCM from S/PDIF and variable-level PCM from S/PDIF.  Considering that scaling will already occur during downmixing (ignoring level adjustments during decoding as dictated by metadata), this is extremely trivial.

Honestly, I wouldn't have bothered if you had not challenged me and then pulled this 99.99% figure out of your ass (and you accused *me* of exaggerating).

As for my credentials, I don't recall telling you what they were.  I only told you that I have experience in the industry, which, in this case was directly related to digital and analog signals being passed from one device to another.  I've personally required that companies make interface changes and/or fix fuckups and have seen results in as little as a matter of days, though, yes, for larger companies this will generally  take much longer.  The problem with larger companies is they will often take the easy route and just eliminate features that aren't working correctly rather than fix them, when these features are optional.

Anyhow sorry to have offended you by pointing out deficiencies in your knowledge in such a blunt way.

Re: Remote Volume Control For Line Level Devices

Reply #21
As for my credentials, I don't recall telling you what they were.  I only told you that I have experience in the industry, which, in this case was directly related to digital and analog signals being passed from one device to another.  I've personally required that companies changes their interfaces and/or fix fuckups and have seen results in as little as a matter of days, though, yes, for larger companies this will sometimes take longer.  The problem with larger companies is they will take the easy route and just eliminate features that aren't required rather than fix them.

Credential:
A credential is an attestation of qualification, competence, or authority issued to an individual by a third party with a relevant or de facto authority or assumed competence to do so.

So yes, you are flaunting your credentials, whether or not you understand what that word means.

And again you have mistaken theory for implementation. I'm no longer interested in this, or your personal insistence that you know best. None of this is helping me better control the volume. Although I do now understand what a dumbass I am for not understanding that it's a trivial task.

 I've written a letter to LG to tell them how easy it is to implement, I am currently awarding a response.

Re: Remote Volume Control For Line Level Devices

Reply #22
So instead of accepting that I am speaking directly from experience (yes, that also includes implementation; not theory), you would choose to nitpick me on my usage of the language.

Anyway, good luck to you.

Re: Remote Volume Control For Line Level Devices

Reply #23
It may have something to do with some people having the (mis?)conception that S/PDIF is designed for bit accurate output, so the software won't touch the volume level of the signal. For instance, macOS will not allow volume control of S/PDIF devices. Samsung TVs as well. And it seems the same applies to our current LG "Smart" TV, which outputs mostly really quiet signals to the S/PDIF to RCA DAC we had to buy for it, since it has no analog outputs.

Re: Remote Volume Control For Line Level Devices

Reply #24
Manufacturers will also do the bare minimum whenever they believe it will ensure their brand won't be tarnished by any potential compatibility issues with external devices and/or user-error.

I empathize with the OP, as I would prefer active monitors in order to not deal with an AVR footprint.