Is Cassette The New Vinyl? It Seems Some Think So And Are Making Cassette Players Again
~ https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/production-expert-1/2019/5/28/is-cassette-the-the-new-vinyl
The humble cassette tape never stopped being the format of choice for DIY underground lo-fi outfits on a tight budget. It has the association with a more rugged and unpolished scene, tapes were something you threw in the glove compartment when going for a road trip, they were what you brought along with you to listen on the move. You could copy and record mixtapes, unlike with records.
But I don't think it'll go through a revival quite like vinyl, because it doesn't have the imagined sound quality benefits, nor the big beautiful cover art.
I'd say the reason it's currently in-fashion is because of vaporwave being a thing. It's also less cost prohibitive, etc.
But I doubt it'll become a staple of audiophile mysticism as vinyl is.
Whether or not there is any inherent value in what the equipment does or does not do, there is still quite a bit of new, very expensive playback equipment made for phonograph records. New cassette players are few and none I've ever run across are other than low end. Someone would have to start manufacturing cassette playback decks, and recorders, with all the high end specs and features of yesteryear for there to be any chance of an "audiophile" revival.
Also, phonograph records, the basic element for storing the music, can last without deterioration for generations (depending on how they are stored and how, and how often, they are played) while tape tends to deteriorate relatively quickly.
I also doubt there will be anything like the vinyl "revival" but there may be a lo-fi fringe that keeps cassettes going for awhile longer.
Cassette decks are harder to repair, and there's no community of DJs keeping the cassette format alive.
Why MoFi ever released these, I'll never know. I think I'll pass.
Decent tapes last forever, so that's not a big problem. The problem rather is, that the times when good quality tape was made, is certainly gone. It's mostly people seeking out new-old-stock tapes to record onto.
Cassette mechanism are complicated and relatively expensive. The best mechanism available now, is about comparable to a mid-tier mechanism that was available in the heyday of cassettes, in the 90's.
About half if not more of the interest in magnetic tape, comes from the ability to record. I'm not sure that has any audiophile appeal, tbh. What are they gonna do, record their vinyls on their Nakamichi Dragon on a Metal type-IV tape?
When seeking out pre-recorded tapes, I doubt it'll ever reach the echelons of audiophile music enthusiasm, simply for the fact that recording media was usually better than what you'd get as a pre-recorded tape.
While the sound quality of a decent tape on a decent deck is awesome - even surprisingly so - you can only really get that if you record that tape yourself.
So you had a better source before that.
So what's even the point?
Cassettes were a pretty cool format to handle, they were much more robust than vinyl and a whole lot more handy and portable. But the kind of mechanical, or ritual involvement that you get with Vinyl, it's just not there with cassettes. Also, playing Vinyls is more of a visual event, than playing a cassette is.
Playing with cassettes is fun, but it's not on the same level or "class" as Vinyl is. Unless it's some sort of very expensive reel-to-reel tape recorder, I'm pretty sure Audiophiles like that will scoff at tapes.
Do people play these cassettes? Or are cassettes sold more as merchandise than as medium?
When it comes to pre-recorded cassettes, you just use them in occasional playing like any other older-style medium, including CDs.
There are some rare relatively desirable tapes, the quality is also pretty good, etc. Also, people like to hang on to their own recordings from way back when.
It's not as much involved as it is with Vinyl, but it kinda replays a bit of 80's and 90's nostalgia. Many very old tapes from the 60's and 70's are still working fine, although the old tape formulation wasn't really made for the kind of immersed listening.
When it comes to recording, it's similar to recording on reel-to-reel these days. Nice to play around and collect good blank tapes, there's actually a bit of a collector's scene for blank tapes. Some people like to record on reel-to-reel in a studio, mainly for novelty reasons.
Let's hope so, so that my investment in a cassette player was not for naught. 😂
Let's hope so, so that my investment in a cassette player was not for naught. 😂
Well, if you bought one of those decent, almost mystical players like a Nakamichi Dragon, it's kinda almost an investment.
A friend of mine doesn't distribute his live recordings in any format other than cassette tape, so I purchased a wreck of a Marantz portable in order to listen to them. I needed to remove potassium hydroxide residue from leaky batteries, replaced belts, used rubber rejuvenator on parts which still seemed to be in decent shape, mended cracked pcb, bridged foil traces destroyed by battery leakage, etc. Of course the first thing I did was create a digital copy of the recording!
(https://www.getdpi.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=142267&d=1560220682)
That's a very neat little player, though.
There is certainly some fascination in seeing mechanical devices move and switch and produce music, something that modern digital playback devices can't replicate, despite their absolutely superior sound quality capabilities.
That's part of the reason I keep a record player around, because of a fascination with mechanical devices.
It kinda depends about what sort of tape technology we talk about though. Cassette tapes at the peak of their quality, were both incredibly good in quality both tape wise, and device wise.
You get what you pay for, etc. but decent decks and decent tapes lasted forever and produced sound which were pretty much on-par with CD quality. But we're talking about very expensive tech here.
If anything digital audio has brought down the price for superior quality music, because the medium is of no issue anymore, and it's possible to create copies which are the original.
Incidentally, it's why I tend not so use the term "original" and "copy" when discussing digital data of any kind.
Thanks re my little Marantz: I got some satisfaction of basically rescuing it from the scrap heap, it takes up little space when not in use (which is most of the time) and I figured I'd have no problems in finding it a new home someday!
Sometime around the late 1970s or early 1980s, I seem to recall paying $13 for a 60 minute TDK MA-R cassette which was had this amazing die-cast metal frame. I don't know about sonic wonders, but it was like an artifact from a gilded era when there must have been serious R&D money being spent on developing home hifi products.
Sometime around the late 1970s or early 1980s, I seem to recall paying $13 for a 60 minute TDK MA-R cassette which was had this amazing die-cast metal frame. I don't know about sonic wonders, but it was like an artifact from a gilded era when there must have been serious R&D money being spent on developing home hifi products.
Personally for me at the time, late 80's - early 90's, The TDK SA-X-90 were the best quality tapes (cassettes) for the price at the time.
Still have about 40-50 of them, All still sound good.
Speaking of cassettes:
The bias dial on some (better) cassette decks could be adjusted from the mid-point to positive or negative. What does that actually control? The level of the bias signal?
Turning the bias to "negative" gave more higher frequencies and less base, turning bias to "positive", traded higher frequencies for better base response, but I've never understood what the bias dial does to the signal. Could someone explain?
I was a Maxell XLII-S guy myself. I never heard the difference between that and the metal tape. But I digress.
Speaking of cassettes:
The bias dial on some (better) cassette decks could be adjusted from the mid-point to positive or negative. What does that actually control? The level of the bias signal?
Turning the bias to "negative" gave more higher frequencies and less base, turning bias to "positive", traded higher frequencies for better base response, but I've never understood what the bias dial does to the signal. Could someone explain?
Bias is an inaudible high-frequency (above 40kHz) signal applied to the tape while recording. Due to how magnetic tape works in a nonlinear fashion, you need a certain signal level to properly saturate it, which is a problem when recording low-level signals. Tape bias applies a strong high-frequency signal that pushes the signal to a level that saturates the tape better.
Different formulations of tape need different bias levels, and improvements such as HX Pro (developed by Bang & Olufsen) can dynamically adjust bias so it is boosted during low-level signals and reduced during high-level signals, further improving sound quality.
Even with proper bias adjustment and control, monitoring recording levels is critical when working with tapes. In 24-bit digital you can just wing it, as long as you're not clipping or at like -80dB, you're probably fine. With tape, you really need to have the peaks right up to the saturation point, to maximize your SNR.
Speaking of cassettes:
The bias dial on some (better) cassette decks could be adjusted from the mid-point to positive or negative. What does that actually control? The level of the bias signal?
Turning the bias to "negative" gave more higher frequencies and less base, turning bias to "positive", traded higher frequencies for better base response, but I've never understood what the bias dial does to the signal. Could someone explain?
Essentially, you needed to bias the tape into the most linear part of it's recording characteristics.
Some decks generated a test tone; one would adjust the bias control to align the meters on a particular marking.
On a 3 head machine, one could also do it by ear in real (slightly delayed) time during recording, switching between input monitoring and off the playback head.
Aah, the "good old days" /s
Here's a good explanation:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Audio/bias.html (http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Audio/bias.html)
Speaking of cassettes:
The bias dial on some (better) cassette decks could be adjusted from the mid-point to positive or negative. What does that actually control? The level of the bias signal?
Turning the bias to "negative" gave more higher frequencies and less base, turning bias to "positive", traded higher frequencies for better base response, but I've never understood what the bias dial does to the signal. Could someone explain?
Essentially, you needed to bias the tape into the most linear part of it's recording characteristics.
Some decks generated a test tone; one would adjust the bias control to align the meters on a particular marking.
On a 3 head machine, one could also do it by ear in real (slightly delayed) time during recording, switching between input monitoring and off the playback head.
Aah, the "good old days" /s
Here's a good explanation:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Audio/bias.html (http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Audio/bias.html)
No offence but I have to say, KozmoNaut's explanation is a lot better than that link. I really don't think "stirring" the magnetisation really cuts it in technical terms. There's a decent page on Wikipedia too.
FWIW, back in the days, I had a tape deck with (internally) adjustable bias. I set it up for the specific tape, using a signal generator and 'scope. The difference was quite noticeable and I stuck to that tape thereafter for recordings.
Bias is an inaudible high-frequency (above 40kHz) signal applied to the tape while recording. Due to how magnetic tape works in a nonlinear fashion, you need a certain signal level to properly saturate it, which is a problem when recording low-level signals. Tape bias applies a strong high-frequency signal that pushes the signal to a level that saturates the tape better.
Different formulations of tape need different bias levels, and improvements such as HX Pro (developed by Bang & Olufsen) can dynamically adjust bias so it is boosted during low-level signals and reduced during high-level signals, further improving sound quality.
Even with proper bias adjustment and control, monitoring recording levels is critical when working with tapes. In 24-bit digital you can just wing it, as long as you're not clipping or at like -80dB, you're probably fine. With tape, you really need to have the peaks right up to the saturation point, to maximize your SNR.
I know what a bias signal is, how the AC biasing acts on tape hysteresis, etc.
My point was specifically how the knob acts on the AC bias signal. I.e. does it adjust the bias frequency slightly, or change the level of the bias signal, or some combination of it.
Specifically, since a lot of manuals use the term "positive bias" and "negative bias". "Negative Bias" doesn't really make sense to me, as a "negative signal", is simply a phase shift of π.
Adjusting the level on a DC biased deck doesn't really make much sense, as in a DC bias, the main reason it so squelch noise in quiet regions. DC bias is always dependent on the signal put onto the tape, which depends on the deck.
I guess I could simply measure it with an oscilloscope directly at the coil, but I don't have a cassette deck with adjustable bias anymore. (In fact I don't have
any cassette decks right now).
Also, when AC biasing, is there still a DC component that moves the midpoint off of 0? Since terms like "positive" and "negative" are used I was also wondering if perhaps this adjusts the DC component of an AC bias signal, etc.
Hence me asking.
To me, the whole "vinyl comeback" or "cassette comeback" is
just silly. And personally, I'm not "going back"!
Also, when AC biasing, is there still a DC component that moves the midpoint off of 0? Since terms like "positive" and "negative" are used I was also wondering if perhaps this adjusts the DC component of an AC bias signal, etc.
No DC and no "negative". The adjustment would be plus & minus around the nominal level.
I had totally forgotten about bias! Back when I was in high school in the 1970s I bought a couple of surplus cassette machine mechanisms (with heads) and I built the electronics. Everything was adjusted by-ear. I didn't have a way of measuring the bias frequency so I just assumed the oscillator was operating "as designed" or "close enough". I'm not even sure if my meter was measuring the bias voltage accurately but I measured "something" out of the oscillator and it did affect the sound. Those were 2-head decks so it must have required lots of trial-and-error.
I remember that I used an inverting op-amp as the playback amplifier and the inductance of the tape head accidently worked to create the playback equalization (or maybe some/most of the playback EQ?). There was no Dolby. That was probably before Dolby was introduced, and the bias was fixed so that was probably before the more-advanced tape formulations were introduced. They worked "pretty well" for what we had in those days but I think I eventually just "trashed them" when I could afford to buy a "real" cassette deck.
No DC and no "negative". The adjustment would be plus & minus around the nominal level.
OK, so basically the adjustment is pretty much just the amplitude of the DC biasing signal?
To me, the whole "vinyl comeback" or "cassette comeback" is just silly. And personally, I'm not "going back"!
Buying new album with modern production on vinyl is certainly silly. I can see a benefit from having larger cover art, but that's about it, and the prices are way too high for a lot of albums. I have a small collection of second-hand albums from back when vinyl was THE format, because it's the original format of a lot of my all-time favorite albums. I also have a small amount of newer albums on vinyl, specifically artists that use old-fashioned recording and production methods and play music in 60/70s style. I think the limitations of vinyl are a good fit for the vibe their music is going for.
As for tape, I don't think it's getting a real proper comeback. Firstly because a good tape deck is significantly more complicated than a turntable, and secondly because for a lot of people they never really went away. DIY scenes such as underground punk kept distributing their works on tape and still do it today, as have various underground metal labels.
The only reason I could see myself using cassette tapes again, is if I got a classic car with a tape deck. In that case, it would feel wrong to use a modern digital media player.
Is there any reason they couldn't use high bias or metal bias tapes for commercial release?
I liked Denon blanks!
Is there any reason they couldn't use high bias or metal bias tapes for commercial release?
IIRC, this was sometimes the case for premium-priced offerings by the likes of Mobile Fidelity, Sheffield Labs, et al.
Is there any reason they couldn't use high bias or metal bias tapes for commercial release?
Not everyone had tape decks capable of handling metal or even chrome tapes, not to mention different levels of noise reduction. A tape deck capable of handling metal tapes and Dolby S is a rare beast.
As a consequence, these fancy tapes would have sounded *worse* than bog-standard ferric tape on basic decks.
Lowest common denominator won the market.
Is there any reason they couldn't use high bias or metal bias tapes for commercial release?
Not everyone had tape decks capable of handling metal or even chrome tapes, not to mention different levels of noise reduction. A tape deck capable of handling metal tapes and Dolby S is a rare beast.
As a consequence, these fancy tapes would have sounded *worse* than bog-standard ferric tape on basic decks.
Lowest common denominator won the market.
Not to mention better tape came out at the end of tapes life time. With CD around the corner why bother with metal versions when CD could handle treble heavy content without a custom master.
OK, so basically the adjustment is pretty much just the amplitude of the DC biasing signal?
NO!!! Tape bias is ultrasonic
AC.
------------------------------------
This is kind-of obvious, but one advantage over vinyl is that anybody can record a cassette at home. I would have assumed it's VERY expensive to have a small batch of records pressed but I Googled and
this site (https://mojitomastering.com/hot-wax-when-does-it-make-sense-for-a-band-to-press-vinyl-records/) says it's only a few-thousand dollars. It wouldn't be economical or profitable for most independent or "local" artists, but it's not impossible.
But, I'm not going to be making or buying any cassettes or vinyl until... Never!
These are a couple of pictures of the model of tape deck I have, the Yamaha KX-W952 Natural Sound double-deck, which was about as top of the line as you could get for a double-carriage deck in the late 1990s/early 2000s. (These are not pictures of my own unit, but both are the 'black' finish, and one is exactly the same as mine (no 'Power On' red eye light).)
(https://i.imgur.com/sTq7yIm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/9tl6dXX.jpg)
I've always been a lover and player of cassettes; having a KX-W952 (probably the only deck I've ever had that I'd have called high-end) was a bit of a dream, and one day I found myself a W952 on eBay from a seller here in Canada (across the Provincial Border in Quebec to the east, in Gatineau) for $150 Canadian funds and $25 shipping post; having recently needed to put my Sony TC-K530 in retirement for the time being (both bad belts, capstan/head/transport issues and some electrical problems; can be fixed, but it'll be a bit pricey), I gave myself the treat.
I haven't regretted it in the least, mind you. It's a tremendously good piece of equipment, and came to me in well-loved but otherwise pristine condition; the only things 'wrong' with it is a bit of paint on the power cable (courtesy, I assume, of someone doing some fresh painting of a new wall nearby where it once called home), and the lack of the remote control. But she's right by my desk (above my Sony digital receiver, which is below my Pioneer PD-4700SR single-disc CD player), so a remote control, while a wonderful gadget to have, is not strictly necessary. Besides being a reliable and easy-to-service deck, each of the two tape carriages has its own 2 x 2 RCA outputs and inputs, and separate full-logic transport controls; in effect, it can function as two separate one-deck units in a single cassette deck with two carriages as well as two sympathetic and meshed decks.
I've never owned a Metal (Type IV) cassette, so I can't tell you how well a home-recorded Type IV recording will sound in it, but it beats the heck out of anything I've ever had for Type I (Normal) and Type II (Chrome) recordings; whether a dub from my record player, my computer (via my receiver), from one deck to the other, or from the radio or CD player.
-Gozer.
Is there any reason they couldn't use high bias or metal bias tapes for commercial release?
I liked Denon blanks!
I have three of those, two 60-minute and one 90-minute (C60 and C90 equivalents), all Chrome (Type II), which I have not used for recording yet. I couldn't tell you where to find them now (aside from a lucky find at a contents sale, which has happened a couple of times to me yet! ^_^).
-Gozer.
OK, so basically the adjustment is pretty much just the amplitude of the DC biasing signal?
NO!!! Tape bias is ultrasonic AC.
I meant AC; honest typo, hence I said "amplitude of...", so the knob adjusts the amplitude of the AC signal?
The only reason I could see myself using cassette tapes again, is if I got a classic car with a tape deck. In that case, it would feel wrong to use a modern digital media player.
If you mean it would be wrong to rip the original tape player out of the classic car, then yes I agree.
But you could buy one of those cassette shell type devices that is fed a line level input signal from an iPod/whatever.
I has one some years ago, and it worked surprisingly well - the sound quality of a MP3 player through it was better than a decent quality cassette tape.
(OTOH if you mean driving a classic car and listening to anything other than tapes would be wrong, then that's how your own boat floats, of course)
(OTOH if you mean driving a classic car and listening to anything other than tapes would be wrong, then that's how your own boat floats, of course)
This is what I meant, it's all about the nostalgia factor :-)
One of my friends has a 1976 Opel Kadett, with the original radio/tape player. He's adding a modern digital media player in the glove compartment, and probably adding a line-in to the old radio, so he can keep the original look of the dash. The best of both worlds.
One of my friends has a 1976 Opel Kadett,
Wow. There's something wrong with the world when a 1976 Opel Kadett is regarded as a "classic car" - unless it's a Kadett GT/E.
The standard Kadett of that era was pretty much the same as the Vauxhall Chevette in the UK (frequently known as the "Shove-It") - an absolutely horrendous piece of automobile so-called engineering.
One of my friends has a 1976 Opel Kadett,
Wow. There's something wrong with the world when a 1976 Opel Kadett is regarded as a "classic car" - unless it's a Kadett GT/E.
The standard Kadett of that era was pretty much the same as the Vauxhall Chevette in the UK (frequently known as the "Shove-It") - an absolutely horrendous piece of automobile so-called engineering.
It's the same platform, but a significantly better car, and much loved here and in Germany. Unlike the Chevette, it was put together by people who cared.
It's an orange 1.2 N, so around 54hp IIRC and 4 gears. It's a wonderful driving experience :-)
Personally, I find the everyday cars of the past a lot more interesting than the sports cars.
I would have assumed it's VERY expensive to have a small batch of records pressed but I Googled and this site (https://mojitomastering.com/hot-wax-when-does-it-make-sense-for-a-band-to-press-vinyl-records/) says it's only a few-thousand dollars. It wouldn't be economical or profitable for most independent or "local" artists, but it's not impossible.
Even though they cut only one piece it's less expensive here: https://vinylify.com/
I've thought about ordering one, filling it up with test signals just to know how it'll end up once it's analyzed. But so many others before me have already done that over the decade so I won't bother.
It has zero advantages over digital (like all analog audio storage solutions), but at least it has less disadvantages in comparison to vinyl (at least to my taste; for example tape less often causes loud clicks and harsh nonlinear distortion in comparison to vinyl)
Ofc why anyone would want this over digital (which represents stuff pretty much *exactly* and doesn't wear and tear) is something I can't understand.
It has zero advantages over digital (like all analog audio storage solutions), but at least it has less disadvantages in comparison to vinyl (at least to my taste; for example tape less often causes loud clicks and harsh nonlinear distortion in comparison to vinyl)
Ofc why anyone would want this over digital (which represents stuff pretty much *exactly* and doesn't wear and tear) is something I can't understand.
As a dictation or cheap recording machine it's actually a lot easier for someone who doesn't understand modern tech to operate.
The type that can't turn on a computer to save their life, struggles with operating a DVD player. There's a few of those kind of people around.
On the flip side, you could have someone who can turn on a computer and write excellent programs for it, but may struggle with a tape recorder or tape player. It does go both ways.
This might be of interest here: measurements of a surviving Nakamichi Dragon deck:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/measurements-of-nakamichi-dragon-cassette-deck.5595/
it doesn't end well
well they based test on some unknown old tape records, that's enough to invalidate any conclusions