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Topic: Test your soundcard for clipping (Read 246298 times) previous topic - next topic
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Test your soundcard for clipping

Reply #125
Those "artifacts" are a result of FFT window and window length.  Use a large enough window and a window such as the Blackmann one and they'll disappear.  Plus, with 16-bit audio -100 dB is already past the noise floor.  Real music most definitely has a larger dynamic range and frequency range than what you give - especially orchestral music.  Pop music like Britney Spears or something doesn't, but it still has many frequencies > 15 kHz.

Test your soundcard for clipping

Reply #126
Quote
this test absolutely synthetic.

Yes. If there are no audible problems in the test with certain soundcard/player settings you can be sure that there'll be never related problems with real music. That's the point.
Let's suppose that rain washes out a picnic. Who is feeling negative? The rain? Or YOU? What's causing the negative feeling? The rain or your reaction? - Anthony De Mello

Test your soundcard for clipping

Reply #127
Thanks CiTay and tigre for your answers 


Quote
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PS: Another strange thing is that with winamp 2.78 I never got the alien laser noise...

Winamp is probably using WaveOut and foobar2k is using DirectSound?


Yes and no. Winamp was with waveout and foobar with DS at first... but then changed winamp to DirectSound and it still played fine 
Changed also foobar to Waveout, DirectSound, DS2, and kernel streaming, but the same laser noise on 44100 and 48000...

Later when I have more time I'll try what tigre told me to test.

Thanks again, best regards,
Mguel

Test your soundcard for clipping

Reply #128
Quote
General effect is the same: artefacts on various frequenses at about -100dB.

Another possibility is that what you are seeing is quantization distortion. If it is, it should happen also when generating a lower freq. tone, because it is independent from sampling frequency. Quantization distortion happens due to the quantized nature (limited bitdepth) of real-world sampling, and can be fixed by the adequate use of dither. If you generate the tone at 32 or 24-bit resoluton, and then convert to 16 bit using dither, you shouldn't see such artifacts, at any frequency.

Test your soundcard for clipping

Reply #129
Quote
For SB Live or Audigy, you should get good results by using foobar's resampler (in DSP manager) to resample to 48 KHz.

in my case, it doesn't matter if i set the foobar resampler to 48 khz or leave it turned off, i can clearly hear the "ambulance" effect on my audigy. i can still hear some noise of the effect when setting resampler to 64 kzh. the noise is completely gone, when using resampler with 88,2 or 96 khz (resampler slow mode always turned off).
does anyone know why it's like that? i thought that resample everything to 48 khz on live and audigy cards should be the optimal playback setting..
and does anyone know if it has any negative side effects resampling to 96 khz? at least, i don't hear any..

-andy-

Test your soundcard for clipping

Reply #130
Turn down the main volume to below 80%.

Test your soundcard for clipping

Reply #131
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Turn down the main volume to below 80%.

Yes, that can help, i had to set it as low as 55%, even though i don't own a Live/Audigy (anymore).

Test your soundcard for clipping

Reply #132
Well I do have an Audigy2... 

Not only can it help but it does completely eliminate the ambulance sound so that it sounds identical to my Revolution. I am of course assuming that SSRC is used here - out of the box there is no way to get udial to playback correctly with a Live/Audigy.

Test your soundcard for clipping

Reply #133
HELP!

  utter confusion.

so ok i listen to the sound sample and sure enough i get the phone dialing and some bad as high pitched siren sound.

I play around with foobar etc etc. now the sound is gone and i just hear the phone.

ahhh I cant get the bad high pitched sound to come back?! all dsp is off and I tried all the settings and restarted foobar dozen of times and no joy.

well it works now just dont know why

Test your soundcard for clipping

Reply #134
ahh now its back. ok dont know what happened.

anyway with audigy 2 sz (or whatever the second edition is called) and latest drivers the alien sound is always there except when i resample to 48Khz using foobar dsp!

Test your soundcard for clipping

Reply #135
In the first post, what do you think this is for:

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ATTENTION: Play this sample at a low volume anytime, even if you hear nothing special! It can be very harmful to equipment and/or your ears.


You probably almost destroyed some part of your audio equipment, but it recovered after a while. Next time read the instructions or at least some more of the thread...

Test your soundcard for clipping

Reply #136
Here's what happens with my Echo Indigo, playing the file in Winamp5rc8 with waveOut output v2.0.2a SSRC (out_wave_ssrc.dll), using each of the Indigo's supported sample rates.  Master volume was initially set to 100%.

32000Hz, 24bits --- Normal (touch-tones only)
44100Hz, 24bits --- Normal
48000Hz, 24bits --- Normal
88200Hz, 24bits --- Moderate but obvious "siren" effect during playback
96000Hz, 24bits --- More pronounced "siren" effect during playback

When I set the volume to -1dB (in the Indigo Console), the "siren sound" is moderately attenuated relative to overall volume.  When I set it
-2dB, the "siren" sound is greatly attenuated relative to the overall volume, and I have to physically turn up my speaker volume to hear it at all.  Lowering the volume in the console further results in no significant change in the volume of the "siren" relative to the overall volume.

When I use the ASIO output plugin, the effect is very similar to using waveOut.  But using DirectSound output v2.2.8 SSRC (out_ds_ssrc.dll), the "siren" effect is barely audible even with the console volume set to 0dB (no attentuation).  Lowering the console volume seems to not affect the volume of the "siren" sound relative to the rest of the sound when using DS output.

Two questions...

-1- Why would DS not play the "siren" effect nearly as loud relatively at a 0dB console volume compared to waveOut or ASIO?

-2- Since the Echo Indigo is supposed to provide "true 96/24 playback", why wouldn't all of the output plugins result in no such distortion during playback at this sample frequency and bps?  Is it a software output problem, or an Indigo problem?

I'll try it with foobar2000 later.  And if anyone wants output samples from me, just tell me how to save output from these plugins, because the only way I've done it before was using the DiskWriter plugin, and I don't know how to specify more than one output plugin (ASIO --> DiskWriter, for instance).  And the version of DiskWriter I have for W/A only resamples up to 48000Hz for PCM.

Test your soundcard for clipping

Reply #137
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You probably almost destroyed some part of your audio equipment, but it recovered after a while. Next time read the instructions or at least some more of the thread...

no CiTay, cause when I played it with windows media player it was still there. 

Test your soundcard for clipping

Reply #138
A sample like udial shouldn't damage headphones (unless the drivers are distorting) and definitely not soundcards.  Playing too loud, too long could certainly damage hearing AFAIC.  As far as speakers, it's probably safer not to play it at all with any that have tweeters.

Edit -- someone mentioned power amps (or amps in general) and I'm really unclear on how udial could damage an amplifier.  I've never heard of any combination of frequencies or tones damaging an amp before, although I suppose anything's possible.

Test your soundcard for clipping

Reply #139
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Edit -- someone mentioned power amps (or amps in general) and I'm really unclear on how udial could damage an amplifier.  I've never heard of any combination of frequencies or tones damaging an amp before, although I suppose anything's possible.

Amps can be damaged with low-impedance load (below 1 Ohm,  on low frequencies) if the amps are not properly protected ... The Infinity Kappa 9 went down to 0,8 Ohms at 30 Hz and has definitely fried some Amps

Undistorted (!) udial should be safe for an amp, though ... and most modern tweeters with properly designed crossovers (12dB/Octave minimum with fs high enough - double crossover frequency from tweeter's own resonance) should be safe as well ... as long as they are not loaded with some 100 Watts high frequency energy

EDIT: By the way, I fried my tweters once with some ugly high-frequency feedback from my DAT ... idiot that I was, i turned the volume knob right instead of left ... it was a classic coil meltdown in both tweeters
The name was Plex The Ripper, not Jack The Ripper

Test your soundcard for clipping

Reply #140
Who'd have thought that Aureal Vortex SQ2500, that I use for listening music right now (in winXP with default drivers & fbk with ds2.0), doesn't resample...anyway the sample sounds the same with resampler on or off, no clipping. And some weird sample that is...I think I have a headache (or at least earache) right now, though I'm not 100% sure that's because of it. And I definitely hear (luckily, just slightly), apart from dialing, some high pitched noise (even when at the beginning I didn't know what to expect - didn't read the thread) especially at the beginning of each dialing tone (though after leaving almost only this high sound with eq I heard it "longer", weird is that it isn't very dependant on volume level - interestingly direction in which my head was pointing has much bigger influence in perception of this sound)

So...I guess that what matters is that I don't hear differences (which means my current setup is ok...) - and slightly hearing this high pitched sound is nothing to worry about - probably because I just can hear such sound at this level of volume or my amplifier etc. alters something, right?

Test your soundcard for clipping

Reply #141
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And I definitely hear (luckily, just slightly), [...] especially at the beginning of each dialing tone [...] direction in which my head was pointing has much bigger influence in perception of this sound

According to your description, you seem to hear the real sound (you've got a very good hearing then), not resample or clipping artifacts. Tigre has posted some simulation of how it should sound above in this thread, IIRC.

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As far as speakers, it's probably safer not to play it at all with any that have tweeters.

It should be even more dangerous with speakers without tweeters. Wideband speakers have a tendancy to have their wires easily melt by high frequency tones (the two wires glued on the cone).

Test your soundcard for clipping

Reply #142

Test your soundcard for clipping

Reply #143
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What the hell? 

For someone not knowing you well it's hard to figure out what you're trying to say ...
Let's suppose that rain washes out a picnic. Who is feeling negative? The rain? Or YOU? What's causing the negative feeling? The rain or your reaction? - Anthony De Mello

Test your soundcard for clipping

Reply #144
Quote
Quote
What the hell? 

For someone not knowing you well it's hard to figure out what you're trying to say ... 

this was the frequency analisis of the sample mad with adobe audition...
I've never seen a spectrogram like this ! 

Test your soundcard for clipping

Reply #145
Quote
What the hell? 

thats actually pretty cool

Test your soundcard for clipping

Reply #146
I have an integrated CMedia 9738 audio chip on my mobo, and here are my results:
For playback I used fb2k with all DSP disabled. I get no clipping, changing volume in windows doesn't change anything (except volume of course), switching between KernelStreaming & WaveOut & DirectSound doesn't change anything, changing bit depths doesn't change anything (except 8-bits which sound like 8-bits). But, I have an issue with the emergency-alarm-alike background sound (or rather foreground because it's louder than dialing tones), I think that this "siren" sound doesn't reach frequencies higher than 16KHz here.
I enabled Resampler (SSRC), and here are my results for different settings:
8KHz-32KHz - clear dialing tones without siren
44KHz - siren issue
48KHz - siren issue
64KHz - lower & faster & loudest siren issue
88KHz - siren issue
96KHz - louder siren issue

I don't know how to conclude it, what do you think?


EDIT: My chip doesn't support bit depths higher than 16, and I'm not sure if it supports 48KHz sample rate (I mean, I'm not sure if it doesn't resample 48KHz to 44KHz), 44KHz it supports for sure (or maybe it resamples 44KHz to 48KHz?).

Test your soundcard for clipping

Reply #147
Quote
I have an integrated CMedia 9738 audio chip on my mobo, and here are my results:
For playback I used fb2k with all DSP disabled. I get no clipping, changing volume in windows doesn't change anything (except volume of course), switching between KernelStreaming & WaveOut & DirectSound doesn't change anything, changing bit depths doesn't change anything (except 8-bits which sound like 8-bits). But, I have an issue with the emergency-alarm-alike background sound (or rather foreground because it's louder than dialing tones), I think that this "siren" sound doesn't reach frequencies higher than 16KHz here.
I enabled Resampler (SSRC), and here are my results for different settings:
8KHz-32KHz - clear dialing tones without siren
44KHz - siren issue
48KHz - siren issue
64KHz - lower & faster & loudest siren issue
88KHz - siren issue
96KHz - louder siren issue

I don't know how to conclude it, what do you think?


EDIT: My chip doesn't support bit depths higher than 16, and I'm not sure if it supports 48KHz sample rate (I mean, I'm not sure if it doesn't resample 48KHz to 44KHz), 44KHz it supports for sure (or maybe it resamples 44KHz to 48KHz?).

Testing below 44.1 KHz is pointless, because of the reason mentioned above. About your onboard AC '97 solution, well, it resamples to 48 KHz. Resampling to over 48 KHz is pretty pointless too. I think it's just a bad implementation on your motherboard. Unless you can find newer drivers from C-Media or something, you're pretty much stuck with that... I would buy a real soundcard.

Test your soundcard for clipping

Reply #148
Terratec Aureon 7.1 w/o Sensaura, 24 bps padded to 32bps int
No dithering
Listening gear: Sennheiser HD-497 & some old Polish 3-way speakers+amp

Code: [Select]
            Aureon 7.1 Space

           Software:    Version 5.01.2600.14    (TTP9MIXER.EXE)
           Interface:      Version 5.01.2600.14    (TTP9API.DLL)
           Driver:      Version 5.01.2600.14    (TTP9.SYS)
           Sensaura:    Version 5.10.00.3506    (TTP9SENS.SYS)

           System Information

           Windows:        Windows XPDodatek Service Pack. 1 (5.1 Build 2600)
           DirectX:        Version 9.0  (4.09.00.902)
           Wave Mapper:    Aureon Wave    (Playback)
           Wave Mapper:    Aureon Wave    (Record)            


DirectSound resampling quality set to Best.

I've tested only >=44100 Hz

Kernel Streaming:
W/o anything: no siren (I've heard HF tone on slow dialtones (unpleasant), but no siren)
Foobar2k SSRC 0.7.7b: no siren on all settings (?)
DirectSound: same as above.
"IP Voice" mode: no problems (weird, it should use DirectSound resampling...)
WaveOut: no problems (only up to 48kHz supported)
with Headphone amp on: no problems
ruxvilti'a

Test your soundcard for clipping

Reply #149
(LONG post, sorry!)

It seems my previous test was flawed (I think I had the main volume slider at 100% during some of the tests), but here are my latest test results. Apparently, with my setup (not a freshly formatted system, BTW), the only setting that produces 0 artifacts with this sample is 48 kHz resampling with SSRC. The apparent conclusion is that there's no way to bypass the Audigy 2's internal resampling

System:

Athlon XP 1800+
Win XP Pro SP1
Sound Blaster Audigy 2
Latest Creative Drivers (downloaded file:SBA2_EAX4DRV_031031.exe)
Default settings in Creatve Surround Mixer (WAV volume 100%, MAIN volume aprox. 80%)
No effects in EAX Console
foobar2000: 16 bit fixed-point, strong ATH noise shaping dither.
Onkyo TX-SR 500 receiver (Analog in: Multichannel inputs (RCA), Digital in: Coax)
audio-technica ATH-M40fs headphones

Test results:

Audigy 2 Analog Out:

No SSRC
Wave Out: Aliens ()
DS w/o hardware mixing : Aliens
DS w/hardware mixing: Aliens
DS2 w/o hardware mixing : Aliens
DS2 w/hardware mixing: Aliens
KS: Aliens

SSRC 44.1 kHz (slow mode unchecked in all cases)
Wave Out: Aliens
DS w/o hardware mixing : Aliens
DS w/hardware mixing: Aliens
DS2 w/o hardware mixing : Aliens
DS2 w/hardware mixing: Aliens
KS: Aliens

SSRC 48 kHz
Wave Out: No aliens
DS w/o hardware mixing : No aliens
DS w/hardware mixing: No aliens
DS2 w/o hardware mixing : No aliens
DS2 w/hardware mixing: No aliens
KS: No aliens

SSRC 64 kHz
Wave Out: Very faint aliens
DS w/o hardware mixing : Almost imperceptible aliens (had to push the volume very high to hear them)
DS w/hardware mixing: Very faint aliens
DS2 w/o hardware mixing : Almost imperceptible aliens
DS2 w/hardware mixing: Very faint aliens
KS: Very faint aliens

SSRC 88.2 kHz
Wave Out: Short and faint "alien bursts"
DS w/o hardware mixing : Almost imperceptible aliens
DS w/hardware mixing: Short and faint "alien bursts"
DS2 w/o hardware mixing : Almost imperceptible aliens
DS2 w/hardware mixing: Short and faint "alien bursts"
KS: Short and faint "alien bursts"

SSRC 96 kHz
Wave Out: Short and faint "alien bursts"
DS w/o hardware mixing : No aliens
DS w/hardware mixing: Short and faint "alien bursts"
DS2 w/o hardware mixing : No aliens
DS2 w/hardware mixing: Short and faint "alien bursts"
KS: Short and faint "alien bursts"


Audigy 2 SPDIF Out:

No SSRC
Wave Out: Aliens
DS w/o hardware mixing : Aliens
DS w/hardware mixing: Aliens
DS2 w/o hardware mixing : Aliens
DS2 w/hardware mixing: Aliens
KS: Aliens

SSRC 44.1 kHz (slow mode unchecked in all cases)
Wave Out: Aliens
DS w/o hardware mixing : Aliens
DS w/hardware mixing: Aliens
DS2 w/o hardware mixing : Aliens
DS2 w/hardware mixing: Aliens
KS: Aliens

SSRC 48 kHz
Wave Out: No aliens
DS w/o hardware mixing : No aliens
DS w/hardware mixing: No aliens
DS2 w/o hardware mixing : No aliens
DS2 w/hardware mixing: No aliens
KS: No aliens

SSRC 64 kHz
Wave Out: Very faint aliens
DS w/o hardware mixing : Almost imperceptible aliens (had to push the volume very high to hear them)
DS w/hardware mixing: Very faint aliens
DS2 w/o hardware mixing : Almost imperceptible aliens
DS2 w/hardware mixing: Very faint aliens
KS: Very faint aliens

SSRC 88.2 kHz
Wave Out: Short and faint "alien bursts"
DS w/o hardware mixing : Almost imperceptible aliens
DS w/hardware mixing: Short and faint "alien bursts"
DS2 w/o hardware mixing : Almost imperceptible aliens
DS2 w/hardware mixing: Short and faint "alien bursts"
KS: Short and faint "alien bursts"

SSRC 96 kHz
Wave Out: Short and faint "alien bursts"
DS w/o hardware mixing : No aliens
DS w/hardware mixing: Short and faint "alien bursts"
DS2 w/o hardware mixing : No aliens
DS2 w/hardware mixing: Short and faint "alien bursts"
KS: Short and faint "alien bursts"


Cheers, Joey.