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Topic: CUETools "Extra > Data track" appends the data track to the end of the disc now? (Read 1044 times) previous topic - next topic
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CUETools "Extra > Data track" appends the data track to the end of the disc now?

Mani times have I used the Data track length box in the past to insert a data track 1 at the beginning of the disc so that I can have some discs compare to the databases. But now, after being unsuccessful comparing some rips, I decided to check the TOC files and found that CUETools is adding the extra track to the end of the disc instead of the beginning.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong or maybe I'm remembering wrong, but that's what I think is happening. I know there were some rainbow book specifications that meant for a data track to be placed at the end, after all the audio tracks, but I'd swear previously CUETools added the extra track to the beginning of the TOC instead.
Am I interpretting the situation correctly and is this intended? I'm kind of confused about what's going on.

Re: CUETools "Extra > Data track" appends the data track to the end of the disc now?

Reply #1
Most data tracks are at the end. (Playstation-type discs are at the beginning.) Does CUETools check both?

Re: CUETools "Extra > Data track" appends the data track to the end of the disc now?

Reply #2
I have never ripped a CD with a data track preceding the audio.
I cannot recall seeing a TOC for this type of CD. I may have glossed over the info if it was posted but I cannot remember an extraction log, "detailed" CUETools accurip log, or CDTOC being posted (and the OP didn't provide anything for the current rip or any previous one that would show the complete CD) so I cannot create a dummy CD for testing purposes.
korth

Re: CUETools "Extra > Data track" appends the data track to the end of the disc now?

Reply #3
This looks like a "playstation" type with the data track first.
http://db.cuetools.net/lookup2.php?version=3&ctdb=1&metadata=extensive&fuzzy=1&toc=-0:86637:110454:129742:150198:173160:185221:217331:240161:261133:281077:300227

Re: CUETools "Extra > Data track" appends the data track to the end of the disc now?

Reply #4
Okay using the CD referenced by @Porcus  I ran a few tests.
I started with dummy audio to create this TOC
Code: [Select]
     Track |   Start  |  Length  | Start sector | End sector 
    ---------------------------------------------------------
        1  |  0:00.00 |  5:17.42 |         0    |    23816  
        2  |  5:17.42 |  4:17.13 |     23817    |    43104  
        3  |  9:34.55 |  4:32.56 |     43105    |    63560  
        4  | 14:07.36 |  5:06.12 |     63561    |    86522  
        5  | 19:13.48 |  2:40.61 |     86523    |    98583  
        6  | 21:54.34 |  7:08.10 |     98584    |   130693  
        7  | 29:02.44 |  5:04.30 |    130694    |   153523  
        8  | 34:06.74 |  4:39.47 |    153524    |   174495  
        9  | 38:46.46 |  4:25.69 |    174496    |   194439  
       10  | 43:12.40 |  4:15.25 |    194440    |   213589  

I then ran verify on the files.

Code: [Select]
[CUETools log; Date: 3/15/2023 4:52:23 AM; Version: 2.2.3]
[CTDB TOCID: rO.EiY.s5Bsw1oVtDBVp49FZE00-] found.
        [ CTDBID ] Status
        [0b90f02e] (13/14) No match
        [80515af2] (01/14) Playstation type data track length 19:15:12, No match
Track | CTDB Status
  1   | ( 0/14) No match
  2   | ( 0/14) No match
  3   | ( 0/14) No match
  4   | ( 0/14) No match
  5   | ( 0/14) No match
  6   | ( 0/14) No match
  7   | ( 0/14) No match
  8   | ( 0/14) No match
  9   | ( 0/14) No match
 10   | ( 0/14) No match
[AccurateRip ID: 00120a7e-009063bd-8e0b1f0a] found.
Track   [  CRC   |   V2   ] Status
 01     [76f35908|a6f89f6f] (0+0/8) No match
 02     [baaafa70|00e5ee39] (0+0/8) No match
 03     [74529302|f0e03ad7] (0+0/8) No match
 04     [9a4003cc|a9f01da3] (0+0/8) No match
 05     [c0244eed|1b4fb8d9] (0+0/8) No match
 06     [cda891b8|9248c6f9] (0+0/8) No match
 07     [2af03c15|7ed6b8bd] (0+0/8) No match
 08     [5fd11e3e|5e5bfa86] (0+0/8) No match
 09     [26a0e0cf|a635c906] (0+0/8) No match
 10     [968dcdce|daad143a] (0+0/8) No match

Track Peak [ CRC32  ] [W/O NULL]
 --   99.4 [8920CBE0] [74BB7241]          
 01   99.4 [F2133AD3] [DFCBD47A]          
 02   99.4 [82DFDD39] [3FEA8D2C]          
 03   99.4 [FC8A541C] [600BAE34]          
 04   99.4 [174AEE30] [5B4586A9]          
 05   99.4 [4A66DA33] [3C82F59E]          
 06   99.4 [BCDA50D6] [4780380B]          
 07   99.4 [8E5A8694] [2B4C1613]          
 08   99.4 [AB6DF3F3] [0E1095D2]          
 09   99.4 [CA23FE60] [F5AF0321]          
 10   99.4 [6F2D7247] [D4E802E4]          

Naturally I'm using dummy audio so there are no matches. I then tried all CUETools versions 2.1.6 through 2.2.3 adding 19:15:12 to the Extra: Data track box and every single time the data track length is added at the end as a CD-Extra data track.

Code: [Select]
     Track |   Start  |  Length  | Start sector | End sector 
    ---------------------------------------------------------
        1  |  0:00.00 |  5:17.42 |         0    |    23816  
        2  |  5:17.42 |  4:17.13 |     23817    |    43104  
        3  |  9:34.55 |  4:32.56 |     43105    |    63560  
        4  | 14:07.36 |  5:06.12 |     63561    |    86522  
        5  | 19:13.48 |  2:40.61 |     86523    |    98583  
        6  | 21:54.34 |  7:08.10 |     98584    |   130693  
        7  | 29:02.44 |  5:04.30 |    130694    |   153523  
        8  | 34:06.74 |  4:39.47 |    153524    |   174495  
        9  | 38:46.46 |  4:25.69 |    174496    |   194439  
       10  | 43:12.40 |  4:15.25 |    194440    |   213589  
       11  | 49:59.65 | 19:15.12 |    224990    |   311626  
Code: [Select]
[CUETools log; Date: 3/15/2023 4:53:17 AM; Version: 2.2.3]
CD-Extra data track length 19:15:12.
[CTDB TOCID: rO.EiY.s5Bsw1oVtDBVp49FZE00-] found.
        [ CTDBID ] Status
        [0b90f02e] (13/14) Has no data track, No match
        [80515af2] (01/14) Playstation type data track length 19:15:12, No match
Track | CTDB Status
  1   | ( 0/14) No match
  2   | ( 0/14) No match
  3   | ( 0/14) No match
  4   | ( 0/14) No match
  5   | ( 0/14) No match
  6   | ( 0/14) No match
  7   | ( 0/14) No match
  8   | ( 0/14) No match
  9   | ( 0/14) No match
 10   | ( 0/14) No match
[AccurateRip ID: 00138973-00a0d844-92103b0b] disk not present in database.

Track Peak [ CRC32  ] [W/O NULL]
 --   99.4 [8920CBE0] [74BB7241]          
 01   99.4 [F2133AD3] [DFCBD47A]          
 02   99.4 [82DFDD39] [3FEA8D2C]          
 03   99.4 [FC8A541C] [600BAE34]          
 04   99.4 [174AEE30] [5B4586A9]          
 05   99.4 [4A66DA33] [3C82F59E]          
 06   99.4 [BCDA50D6] [4780380B]          
 07   99.4 [8E5A8694] [2B4C1613]          
 08   99.4 [AB6DF3F3] [0E1095D2]          
 09   99.4 [CA23FE60] [F5AF0321]          
 10   99.4 [6F2D7247] [D4E802E4]          

The only way[1]I was able to get CUETools to add a Playstation type data track length to the CD was to leave the Extra: Data track box zeroed, and alter the %filename%.toc file placing it in the same directory as the audio files (CUETools will parse the %filename%.toc similar to the TOC in an EAC extraction log).

Code: [Select]
     Track |   Start  |  Length  | Start sector | End sector 
    ---------------------------------------------------------
        1  |  0:00.00 | 19:15.12 |         0    |    86636  
        2  | 19:15.12 |  5:17.42 |     86637    |   110453  
        3  | 24:32.54 |  4:17.13 |    110454    |   129741  
        4  | 28:49.67 |  4:32.56 |    129742    |   150197  
        5  | 33:22.48 |  5:06.12 |    150198    |   173159  
        6  | 38:28.60 |  2:40.61 |    173160    |   185220  
        7  | 41:09.46 |  7:08.10 |    185221    |   217330  
        8  | 48:17.56 |  5:04.30 |    217331    |   240160  
        9  | 53:22.11 |  4:39.47 |    240161    |   261132  
       10  | 58:01.58 |  4:25.69 |    261133    |   281076  
       11  | 62:27.52 |  4:15.25 |    281077    |   300226  
Code: [Select]
[CUETools log; Date: 3/15/2023 4:47:44 AM; Version: 2.2.3]
Playstation type data track length 19:15:12.
[CTDB TOCID: rO.EiY.s5Bsw1oVtDBVp49FZE00-] found.
        [ CTDBID ] Status
        [0b90f02e] (13/14) Has no data track, No match
        [80515af2] (01/14) No match
Track | CTDB Status
  1   | ( 0/14) No match
  2   | ( 0/14) No match
  3   | ( 0/14) No match
  4   | ( 0/14) No match
  5   | ( 0/14) No match
  6   | ( 0/14) No match
  7   | ( 0/14) No match
  8   | ( 0/14) No match
  9   | ( 0/14) No match
 10   | ( 0/14) No match
[AccurateRip ID: 0020952d-00e7a3d6-940fa30b] found.
Track   [  CRC   |   V2   ] Status
 01     [76f35908|a6f89f6f] (0+0/2) No match
 02     [baaafa70|00e5ee39] (0+0/2) No match
 03     [74529302|f0e03ad7] (0+0/2) No match
 04     [9a4003cc|a9f01da3] (0+0/2) No match
 05     [c0244eed|1b4fb8d9] (0+0/2) No match
 06     [cda891b8|9248c6f9] (0+0/2) No match
 07     [2af03c15|7ed6b8bd] (0+0/2) No match
 08     [5fd11e3e|5e5bfa86] (0+0/2) No match
 09     [26a0e0cf|a635c906] (0+0/2) No match
 10     [968dcdce|daad143a] (0+0/0) No match

Track Peak [ CRC32  ] [W/O NULL]
 --   99.4 [8920CBE0] [74BB7241]          
 01   99.4 [F2133AD3] [DFCBD47A]          
 02   99.4 [82DFDD39] [3FEA8D2C]          
 03   99.4 [FC8A541C] [600BAE34]          
 04   99.4 [174AEE30] [5B4586A9]          
 05   99.4 [4A66DA33] [3C82F59E]          
 06   99.4 [BCDA50D6] [4780380B]          
 07   99.4 [8E5A8694] [2B4C1613]          
 08   99.4 [AB6DF3F3] [0E1095D2]          
 09   99.4 [CA23FE60] [F5AF0321]          
 10   99.4 [6F2D7247] [D4E802E4]          
Edit: I was able to get this to work by creating a CDTOC tag also to match the modified toc file
korth

Re: CUETools "Extra > Data track" appends the data track to the end of the disc now?

Reply #5
The one I linked to, is what is called mixed mode: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed_Mode_CD and https://cdrfaq.org/faq03.html#S3-14


There is actually one more way to put it at the beginning, and that is data in the HTOA pregap. So-called Pre-Gap Enhanced CD.
A Windows 95 update disabled those. Most notable release was, I think, Rolling Stones: "Stripped". If you can find it from the AccurateRip ID, it is 002dfafb-01c194b9-d80df60e . I have a CDTOC tag (I think that was upon ripping, not written later by CUETools): E+10CB6+14D70+1B0BB+1E74B+238D6+275EC+2AE5E+30900+353BA+39DD9+3F453+43184+492AA+4DD84+523E1

Ripping with dBpoweramp on Windows XP MCE got me just "static", i.e. the pregap was read without recognizing it is data. Out of curiosity, I wonder if it is possible to recover from the bit stream ... not that I need it to watch the content, which is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tluNquD6vI

More on the release, from a Rolling Stones FAQ: http://home.swipnet.se/~w-35264/help4.html


More on the story about pregap data and Windows 95:
https://books.google.no/books?id=wwkEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA68&lpg=PA68&dq=%22Pre-Gap+ECD%22&source=bl&ots=c_FFSZrCbm&sig=ACfU3U0gjUXhrIe8wXKvgX6GBmsjjtsn8A&hl=no&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjp6O6w1-f9AhVAR_EDHXhaAk4Q6AF6BAgkEAM#v=onepage&q=%22Pre-Gap%20ECD%22&f=false
page 69 ff at https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Audio/Archive-HiFI-Stereo/90s/Stereo-Review-1996-04.pdf

Re: CUETools "Extra > Data track" appends the data track to the end of the disc now?

Reply #6
CUETools detailed log would identify that type of CD as having a Pregap instead of a data track so the user would know to put the value in the Pregap section.
Naturally if you try that method with the CD you originally referenced:
Code: [Select]
     Track |   Start  |  Length  | Start sector | End sector 
    ---------------------------------------------------------
        1  | 19:15.12 |  5:17.42 |     86637    |   110453  
        2  | 24:32.54 |  4:17.13 |    110454    |   129741  
        3  | 28:49.67 |  4:32.56 |    129742    |   150197  
        4  | 33:22.48 |  5:06.12 |    150198    |   173159  
        5  | 38:28.60 |  2:40.61 |    173160    |   185220  
        6  | 41:09.46 |  7:08.10 |    185221    |   217330  
        7  | 48:17.56 |  5:04.30 |    217331    |   240160  
        8  | 53:22.11 |  4:39.47 |    240161    |   261132  
        9  | 58:01.58 |  4:25.69 |    261133    |   281076  
       10  | 62:27.52 |  4:15.25 |    281077    |   300226  
Code: [Select]
[CUETools log; Date: 3/17/2023 3:37:53 AM; Version: 2.2.3]
Pregap length 19:15:12.
[CTDB TOCID: rO.EiY.s5Bsw1oVtDBVp49FZE00-] found.
        [ CTDBID ] Status
        [0b90f02e] (13/14) Has pregap length 00:00:00, No match
        [80515af2] (01/14) Playstation type data track length 19:15:12, Has pregap length 00:00:00, No match
Track | CTDB Status
  1   | ( 0/14) No match
  2   | ( 0/14) No match
  3   | ( 0/14) No match
  4   | ( 0/14) No match
  5   | ( 0/14) No match
  6   | ( 0/14) No match
  7   | ( 0/14) No match
  8   | ( 0/14) No match
  9   | ( 0/14) No match
 10   | ( 0/14) No match
[AccurateRip ID: 0020952d-00e7a3d6-920b200a] disk not present in database.

Track Peak [ CRC32  ] [W/O NULL]
 --   99.4 [A862E5BE] [74BB7241]          
 01   99.4 [F2133AD3] [DFCBD47A]          
 02   99.4 [82DFDD39] [3FEA8D2C]          
 03   99.4 [FC8A541C] [600BAE34]          
 04   99.4 [174AEE30] [5B4586A9]          
 05   99.4 [4A66DA33] [3C82F59E]          
 06   99.4 [BCDA50D6] [4780380B]          
 07   99.4 [8E5A8694] [2B4C1613]          
 08   99.4 [AB6DF3F3] [0E1095D2]          
 09   99.4 [CA23FE60] [F5AF0321]          
 10   99.4 [6F2D7247] [D4E802E4]          

The stones CD has too many 1/x entries in the detailed log to post in full but the rip is identified as having a Pregap instead of a data track.

Code: [Select]
     Track |   Start  |  Length  | Start sector | End sector 
    ---------------------------------------------------------
        1  | 15:15.15 |  3:40.70 |     68640    |    85209  
        2  | 18:56.10 |  5:38.69 |     85210    |   110628  
        3  | 24:35.04 |  3:06.18 |    110629    |   124596  
        4  | 27:41.22 |  4:38.25 |    124597    |   145471  
        5  | 32:19.47 |  3:28.38 |    145472    |   161109  
        6  | 35:48.10 |  3:12.50 |    161110    |   175559  
        7  | 39:00.60 |  5:09.27 |    175560    |   198761  
        8  | 44:10.12 |  4:15.05 |    198762    |   217891  
        9  | 48:25.17 |  4:13.00 |    217892    |   236866  
       10  | 52:38.17 |  4:55.13 |    236867    |   259004  
       11  | 57:33.30 |  3:28.65 |    259005    |   274669  
       12  | 61:02.20 |  5:31.45 |    274670    |   299539  
       13  | 66:33.65 |  4:15.37 |    299540    |   318701  
       14  | 70:49.27 |  4:00.13 |    318702    |   336714  

Code: [Select]
[CUETools log; Date: 3/19/2023 1:51:18 AM; Version: 2.2.3]
Pregap length 15:15:15.
[CTDB TOCID: FVwc6yloNQ0YIDN8xa8bKXENvOY-] found.
        [ CTDBID ] Status
        [de1cd4eb] (022/2882) Has pregap length 00:00:00, No match
        [458b507f] (001/2882) Has pregap length 00:00:00, No match
        [2ce186b6] (001/2882) No match
        [e0a2150e] (2593/2882) No match
        [21ba7ab7] (001/2882) Has pregap length 00:00:00, No match
        [bc0aec50] (001/2882) Has pregap length 00:00:00, No match
        [2b6fc887] (001/2882) Has pregap length 00:00:00, No match
        [b0ca6097] (001/2882) Has pregap length 00:00:00, No match
        [38d948f5] (008/2882) No match
[...]
Track | CTDB Status
  1   | (  0/2882) No match
  2   | (  0/2882) No match
  3   | (  0/2882) No match
  4   | (  0/2882) No match
  5   | (  0/2882) No match
  6   | (  0/2882) No match
  7   | (  0/2882) No match
  8   | (  0/2882) No match
  9   | (  0/2882) No match
 10   | (  0/2882) No match
 11   | (  0/2882) No match
 12   | (  0/2882) No match
 13   | (  0/2882) No match
 14   | (  0/2882) No match
[AccurateRip ID: 002dfafb-01c194b9-d80df60e] found.
Track   [  CRC   |   V2   ] Status
 01     [77b4aeb7|f996ef1a] (000+000/773) No match
 02     [523d2114|0be75859] (000+000/769) No match
 03     [de55684a|6a05e907] (000+000/773) No match
 04     [d83bc63f|20c1149d] (000+000/772) No match
 05     [4c9670ae|07d2d0e3] (000+000/777) No match
 06     [c77e3d13|b7cf23b5] (000+000/773) No match
 07     [d8156e37|23c2547e] (000+000/777) No match
 08     [307f9900|ba05bf9f] (000+000/773) No match
 09     [4409ea44|8502ddf7] (000+000/777) No match
 10     [d2298386|9440e7c2] (000+000/771) No match
 11     [2270eebe|eeded7c4] (000+000/771) No match
 12     [9cac9a28|3e303ae3] (000+000/766) No match
 13     [0008df8e|414d9d7d] (000+000/762) No match
 14     [5539cf6f|ec3b68e9] (000+000/745) No match

Track Peak [ CRC32  ] [W/O NULL]
 --  100.0 [5F31A002] [0508F517]          
 01   97.7 [FDF73E99] [8C66D489] 
 02  100.0 [279521ED] [CA7C526B] 
 03   99.9 [94E77075] [1BD02B81] 
 04   97.1 [D7392053] [E8681035] 
 05  100.0 [F4EA3CD3] [3AFC1FF0] 
 06   98.7 [38114FBE] [B754E21D] 
 07  100.0 [640FDF6B] [E87EFFDD] 
 08  100.0 [8BCB10D4] [BD3E9349] 
 09  100.0 [4D97A47B] [72392311] 
 10  100.0 [E419E1F7] [6C7737D9] 
 11  100.0 [98D233A6] [0C7DA2B5] 
 12  100.0 [B463196C] [728C5072] 
 13  100.0 [356568E7] [E3A78D27] 
 14  100.0 [380CD0CD] [00D54147] 
korth

Re: CUETools "Extra > Data track" appends the data track to the end of the disc now?

Reply #7
The rips of discs with data tracks I usually deal with are indeed from videogame discs, but not only PlayStation ones: When I posted this I was dealing with one for SEGA Saturn and another for PC. In my experience these always have a data track 1 followed by a number of audio tracks for the soundtrack if they use RedBook audio for it instead of other types of streaming, MIDI, modules or whatever else.

So, are you saying that CUETools interprets those leading data tracks as pregap? Has it always been like that?
I'm seem to remember using the data track textbox for similar leading data tracks before and having it work, which led me to think there had been a change recently.

Re: CUETools "Extra > Data track" appends the data track to the end of the disc now?

Reply #8
Reply#2
korth