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Topic: Foobar2000 (Mobile Edition)  (Read 179124 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Foobar2000 (Mobile Edition)

Reply #100 –
Tried the last iOS version...that's not bad. :-)

May I suggest few things for the next versions :
- Add a volume button
- A way to enable/disable shuffle from the settings

Re: Foobar2000 (Mobile Edition)

Reply #101 –
I rarely listen to music on any mobile device but since it is foobar2000 and AFAIK it is the only free app to play wavpack files on SD card on my non windows 10 upgradable Lumia 520 I decided to give it a try.

It even has the DSP manager similar to the desktop version! Knowing my Lumia resamples everything to 48k like those ancient Creative cards I added a resampler and here is the RMAA results.

As usual I will not talk about audio quality without doing any ABX test. I am just curious to see the graphs ;)  The frequency response ripples in "src on" is not caused by the resampler since it happens with native 48k tests and other media player apps as well.
 

Re: Foobar2000 (Mobile Edition)

Reply #102 –
What a great measurement of Lumia! Thank you! If I read the results correctly it makes sense to use the resampler on Lumias. Do you know what is the cause for worse DAC performance at 44.1 without DSP? The fact that Lumias resample everything to 48k - how have you determined it and does it mean that WASAPI kind of interface is not available there, e.g. output from foobar at 44.1 gets resampled by Windows Mobile/Lumia engine if not resampled by foobar itself?

Re: Foobar2000 (Mobile Edition)

Reply #103 –
Quote from: bennetng on
... Knowing my Lumia resamples everything to 48k like those ancient Creative cards I added a resampler and here is the RMAA results. ...
Good measurements. I too own a Lumia 520 using it as dedicated MP3 player ;-) From the results I guess these are unloaded measurements, as this device degrades in IM test when loaded as per GSMArena.

Quote from: jumpingjackflash5 on
... The fact that Lumias resample everything to 48k - how have you determined it and does it mean that WASAPI kind of interface is not available there, e.g. output from foobar at 44.1 gets resampled by Windows Mobile/Lumia engine if not resampled by foobar itself? ...
Not just Lumia most of the devices with telephony uses 48k as are most bluetooth headphones. WASAPI is available in both Windows phone 8 and Windows 10 Mobile though only shared mode as exclusive mode wont make sense in a communication device.

Re: Foobar2000 (Mobile Edition)

Reply #104 –
Then it however kind of decreases the importance of WASAPI as if shared mode is set to 48k by default then 44.1k content cannot be played without resampling as on desktop through exclusive WASAPI can.

Re: Foobar2000 (Mobile Edition)

Reply #105 –
Quote from: jumpingjackflash5 on
What a great measurement of Lumia! Thank you! If I read the results correctly it makes sense to use the resampler on Lumias. Do you know what is the cause for worse DAC performance at 44.1 without DSP? The fact that Lumias resample everything to 48k - how have you determined it and does it mean that WASAPI kind of interface is not available there, e.g. output from foobar at 44.1 gets resampled by Windows Mobile/Lumia engine if not resampled by foobar itself?

Resample or not depends on the hardware's clocking capability, not depends the API. In fact I can let my X-Fi card resample even when using WASAPI exclusive mode so I don't even think it is as "bullet proof" as some people think. The same applies to ASIO and KS mode as well.

https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,104547.msg859022.html#msg859022

Also, using MME or DS doesn't mean there must be mandatory resampling, as I said it depends on the hardware's clocking capability.

https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,110708.msg913134.html#msg913134
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,92856.msg829323.html#msg829323

Yeah the above are off topic for a mobile app. Just want to clarify something. I don't know if there are any WASAPI-like things in Windows mobile, better let the app developers answer this question.

Re: Foobar2000 (Mobile Edition)

Reply #106 –
Quote from: Nimos on
Quote from: bennetng on
... Knowing my Lumia resamples everything to 48k like those ancient Creative cards I added a resampler and here is the RMAA results. ...
Good measurements. I too own a Lumia 520 using it as dedicated MP3 player ;-) From the results I guess these are unloaded measurements, as this device degrades in IM test when loaded as per GSMArena.
Yes since I just want to show the differences of using resampler or not.

Re: Foobar2000 (Mobile Edition)

Reply #107 –
Quote from: bennetng on
Quote from: jumpingjackflash5 on
What a great measurement of Lumia! Thank you! If I read the results correctly it makes sense to use the resampler on Lumias. Do you know what is the cause for worse DAC performance at 44.1 without DSP? The fact that Lumias resample everything to 48k - how have you determined it and does it mean that WASAPI kind of interface is not available there, e.g. output from foobar at 44.1 gets resampled by Windows Mobile/Lumia engine if not resampled by foobar itself?

Resample or not depends on the hardware's clocking capability, not depends the API. In fact I can let my X-Fi card resample even when using WASAPI exclusive mode so I don't even think it is as "bullet proof" as some people think. The same applies to ASIO and KS mode as well.

https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,104547.msg859022.html#msg859022

Also, using MME or DS doesn't mean there must be mandatory resampling, as I said it depends on the hardware's clocking capability.

https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,110708.msg913134.html#msg913134
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,92856.msg829323.html#msg829323

Yeah the above are off topic for a mobile app. Just want to clarify something. I don't know if there are any WASAPI-like things in Windows mobile, better let the app developers answer this question.



Yes I know. But if Lumia hardware is set to 48k by default (as far as I know it cannot be set by the user the same way as it can be set in desktop W10) and WASAPI exclusive is not available, then WASAPI shared and also common playback (MME or DS or whatever) will resample to that rate. That is why was asking my last question.

Re: Foobar2000 (Mobile Edition)

Reply #108 –
I'm using it on Android device. Before I used Poweramp, but not anymore! I'm happy with the mobile Foobar, but of course there's more to be wants. As I wrote at the Google play store, the sound is amazing. It's closer to sounding of my cd player Phillips. I'm using it, when I run at the stadium, as well. The simple interface and the big simbols are very usefull when i'm running and my hand is shaking. Adore the Replay gain control, it's very usefull during the cardio training because it unifies the sound levels of all my tracks, and it is not nessesary to touch the volume control constantly.

Just a suggestion, I can't see the "repeat" option! It will be nice if this option will be available. Also "A-B repeat" could be very useful. Often I like to listen only certain part of the track. Also, it will be good to have a "reset" button at the Replay gain menu. When I adjust the pregain slider, it is difficult to turn back it to zero.

And again, would like to say a big Thanks to the developers  :)

Re: Foobar2000 (Mobile Edition)

Reply #109 –
Another foobar2000 test on Xiaomi Redmi 1S (Android 4.4.4). No measurable differences between using and not using resampler.

The Xiaomi is 6.3dB quieter than the Lumia when both are in maximum volume.

Re: Foobar2000 (Mobile Edition)

Reply #110 –
These results can theoretically mean that Windows Mobile 10 by default resamples to hardware default of Lumia - 48k worse than Android and worse than Foobars internal resampler.

Re: Foobar2000 (Mobile Edition)

Reply #111 –
Quote from: jumpingjackflash5 on
These results can theoretically mean that Windows Mobile 10 by default resamples to hardware default of Lumia - 48k worse than Android and worse than Foobars internal resampler.

Most likely, the default system resampler in normal Windows is quite poor, I can only imagine on a CPU bound device it is not great.

Re: Foobar2000 (Mobile Edition)

Reply #112 –
Quote from: spoon on
Quote from: jumpingjackflash5 on
These results can theoretically mean that Windows Mobile 10 by default resamples to hardware default of Lumia - 48k worse than Android and worse than Foobars internal resampler.

Most likely, the default system resampler in normal Windows is quite poor, I can only imagine on a CPU bound device it is not great.

Seems logical. However, on desktop windows you can to some extent bypass the Windows  resampler by setting sound card and wasapi shared to the same frequency as the majority of the content you have (typically 44.1 kHz). On Lumia - if what the others measured is true - it is fixed to 48 kHz by default, so to play without Windows  resample, you have to utilize foobar with DSP Foobar/SSRC resampling to 48 kHz.

Re: Foobar2000 (Mobile Edition)

Reply #113 –
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/apps/flac-player/9wzdncrfj3jz
Here is another app. Like some other free wp8.1 apps it cannot play files from the SD card directly and it requires users to upload their audio files to OneDrive then download them to the phone to play them. Pretty useless but since it can at least play flac, a basic requirement for running RMAA (lossless) I also tested it two years ago. It doesn't have a DSP manager like foobar but it's 44.1k result is obviously different from foobar.

This makes me think about some of the ridiculously poor results from GSMArena are not related to incompetent hardware, they can be OS or app specific. Also I hope they can benchmark the actual output level or voltage of different devices. Now my Xiaomi's RMAA result seems prettier than the Lumia but in fact the Xiaomi is so quiet which is a big disadvantage. They also mentioned it in their review but without actual figure it is hard to compare with other devices.

Re: Foobar2000 (Mobile Edition)

Reply #114 –
Thank you for analysis. Still it seems to have higher intermodulation distortion at 44.1 kHz than at 48 kHz, but has better parameters than foobar at 44.1 kHz. Maybe has default internal resampler, or it utilizes different interface ?

It would be interesting also to test default Groove player for those values.

Jan

Re: Foobar2000 (Mobile Edition)

Reply #115 –
My Lumia 520 is the oldest Lumia only has 512MB RAM and it cannot be upgraded to windows 10, the build-in music app doesn't support any lossless format so I can't even measure anything with meaningful result.

Re: Foobar2000 (Mobile Edition)

Reply #116 –
That is unfortunately true with some older Lumias.

Re: Foobar2000 (Mobile Edition)

Reply #117 –
Thanks for all the feedback.

Regarding bad output on Lumia devices-

Starting with the current version - 1.0.23/1.0.24 - we only use XAudio2 output, as the other mode - MediaStreamSource - turned out to have massive bugs. However XAudio2 seems to have been made primarily for games, so I would not be surprised if it has other behaviors that are undesirable for us.
There's still the WASAPI option that has not yet been enabled in a public build because it requires app-side resampling. I'll look into enabling it for the next update.
Microsoft Windows: We can't script here, this is bat country.

Re: Foobar2000 (Mobile Edition)

Reply #118 –
Thanks for explaining this Peter! I also highly appreciate that the mobile version also has functions like decoding speed test and console. I am a geek and I love such things so much. :P

Re: Foobar2000 (Mobile Edition)

Reply #119 –
Quote from: Peter on
Thanks for all the feedback.

Regarding bad output on Lumia devices-

Starting with the current version - 1.0.23/1.0.24 - we only use XAudio2 output, as the other mode - MediaStreamSource - turned out to have massive bugs. However XAudio2 seems to have been made primarily for games, so I would not be surprised if it has other behaviors that are undesirable for us.
There's still the WASAPI option that has not yet been enabled in a public build because it requires app-side resampling. I'll look into enabling it for the next update.

Thanks for all the effort!!! And the output with resample to 48k is already very good. Only 44.1 according to measurements of the others is worse.

By the way, if using WASAPI does Lumia support 44.1 natively ?

Re: Foobar2000 (Mobile Edition)

Reply #120 –

Quote from: Peter on
Thanks for all the feedback.

Regarding bad output on Lumia devices-

Starting with the current version - 1.0.23/1.0.24 - we only use XAudio2 output, as the other mode - MediaStreamSource - turned out to have massive bugs. However XAudio2 seems to have been made primarily for games, so I would not be surprised if it has other behaviors that are undesirable for us.
There's still the WASAPI option that has not yet been enabled in a public build because it requires app-side resampling. I'll look into enabling it for the next update.

Thanks for all the effort!!! And the output with resample to 48k is already very good. Only 44.1 according to measurements of the others is worse.

By the way, when using WASAPI, does Lumia DAC support 44.1 natively ? Or it requires SW resample to 48k since 44.1 is not supported at hardware (DAC) level?

Re: Foobar2000 (Mobile Edition)

Reply #121 –
I checked out the windows version and was hoping for EQ to be present in the dsp. Unfortunately it isn't.
So... a feature request
please put a custom EQ, at least in the windows version, if it's even possible.

Windows 8.1/10 mobile has an EQ which goes only up to 7kHz. Which is bullshit in my honest opinion, and i have no idea why it's even there.
I don't usually listen to music on my winphone, but if there was a proper EQ, i might start doing that.

Re: Foobar2000 (Mobile Edition)

Reply #122 –
Quote from: copperblue on
Will the ability to sync files/playlists/playback statistics/ratings with the desktop app be implemented in the final feature set?

This is also utterly essential for my usage. I am thankful for everything you have done so far and don't want to sound demanding, just letting you know what some desktop users are looking for in a mobile app. I have been maintaining the same playback statistics for six years due to foobar desktop's excellent functionality for such. But since there is no plugin or app anywhere to sync between Android and foobar, I am totally screwed over in ever being able to conveniently listen to music on my phone, and have been stuck either buying old iPods to use with foo_dop or manually adding playcounts to every song I have listened to on my phone, neither of which is a pleasant solution. I would pay so much money for foobar mobile playback statistics syncing in relation to my income that it's embarrassing how badly I want it.

Please help,
~a playback statistics addict~

Re: Foobar2000 (Mobile Edition)

Reply #123 –
UI request: playback controls at the bottom of the song list (folder). Here's an example from Clean Music Player:

Re: Foobar2000 (Mobile Edition)

Reply #124 –
I am now using Mobile FooBar 2000 on my windows 8.1 Lumina 520 phone  . This is so superior to all the previous media players I've tried . I have a mix of FLAC / WMA lossless 16/44.1 and 24/192 Hi-Rez audio on my 64 GB micro SD card ( next phone Win 10 model 650 will have 200GB micro SD slot ).
The next purchase will be a headphone DAC amp with external battery combo for using USB output bypassing headphone jack.
This will allow me to listen to 24/192 through my NAD HP50 Viso headphones...

The futures so bright I got to wear shades  8)