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Topic: TAK hybrid with LossyWAV ? (Read 2198 times) previous topic - next topic
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TAK hybrid with LossyWAV ?

Hello Audio Professionals,
i'm reading a lot about LossyWAV and TAK d i read it can ne combined as a hybrid format with lossless and lossy.
now i tried a lot of things, TAudioconverter creates a lossy tal file with still the .tak extensions but the file size is ridicilously smaller and when i convert back the md5 audio hash is different so not lossless anymore.
i see on the wiki profile a hybrid of the two is possible but how to do it ?
i want to make a hybrid tak and lossywav, the tak at level -p0 with crc/audio data still on it.
how can i do this ?
hope somebody can help me out with this and that this is possible.
best regards.

Re: TAK hybrid with LossyWAV ?

Reply #1
Hello Audio Professionals,
Apart from a generous minority of developers and audio engineers always keen to help, I'd risk saying that, with no false modesty,  the vast majority over here can hardly call themselves that - myself being one of the biggest examples of the latter. ;)

i want to make a hybrid tak and lossywav, the tak at level -p0 with crc/audio data still on it.
how can i do this ?
Assuming I got your question right, I can't see why the HA wiki couldn't help you that - for me at least, it was a breeze to encode hybrid Wavpack after a few minutes there. Have you tried it yet?

Also, on a side note, and for better clarification's sake, I'd ask you to use capital letters whenever necessary, as that may even be the difference between, say, helping your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse::)  ::)  Cheers!
Listen to the music, not the media it's on.
União e reconstrução

Re: TAK hybrid with LossyWAV ?

Reply #2
Hello Audio Professionals,
Apart from a generous minority of developers and audio engineers always keen to help, I'd risk saying that, with no false modesty,  the vast majority over here can hardly call themselves that - myself being one of the biggest examples of the latter. ;)

i want to make a hybrid tak and lossywav, the tak at level -p0 with crc/audio data still on it.
how can i do this ?
Assuming I got your question right, I can't see why the HA wiki couldn't help you that - for me at least, it was a breeze to encode hybrid Wavpack after a few minutes there. Have you tried it yet?

Also, on a side note, and for better clarification's sake, I'd ask you to use capital letters whenever necessary, as that may even be the difference between, say, helping your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse::)  ::)  Cheers!


No in wiki it only have the command line for lossy tak and flac etc.
Except if im understanding the wiki page wrong.
Also english is not my main language so sorry if i hurt your feelings somewhere in my post.
I tought this forum was for people having questions about codecs and share there knowledge with each other.
Creating a WavPack hybrid lossless/lossy is very easy to do.
Creating lossy/lossless Flac and Tak is not and i really dont know how to do it.
Yes i know to use the command line codes on the wiki but thats for LossyTak and not hybrid lossy/lossless or am i understanding it wrong then ?
Anyway sorry if i annoy you with my qeustions and i hurt your feelings with something all i want is to create legit TAK hybrid LossyWAV files at least of that's possible.

Re: TAK hybrid with LossyWAV ?

Reply #3
Also english is not my main language so sorry if i hurt your feelings somewhere in my post.
[...]
Anyway sorry if i annoy you with my qeustions and i hurt your feelings with something all i want is to create legit TAK hybrid LossyWAV files at least of that's possible.
Chill, man - it's not mine either. No feelings were hurt.

Besides, proper capitalization has mostly, nothing to do with language but netiquette.
Listen to the music, not the media it's on.
União e reconstrução

Re: TAK hybrid with LossyWAV ?

Reply #4
If i'm not wrong, the TAK codec itself does not have a hybrid feature comparable to the one in Wavpack (as in generating two files at the same time that can be combined later to form the lossless original).

What you might be able to get is a lossless file, and also a lossywav-processed file. There are several options to do that, from compressing it twice manually, or using a single script file that calls TAK twice (one without lossywav, and the other with it), or using programs that can do that, like REACT (Although maybe the first option will be easier).


Re: TAK hybrid with LossyWAV ?

Reply #5
I haven't been into lossyWAV since quite a long time, but I was, and from that I know:
A hybrid stage in the overall process must be within the lossyWAV preprocessing stage
and
lossyWAV option -C does this by creating a difference file.
lame3995o -Q1.7 --lowpass 17

Re: TAK hybrid with LossyWAV ?

Reply #6
I haven't been into lossyWAV since quite a long time, but I was, and from that I know:
A hybrid stage in the overall process must be within the lossyWAV preprocessing stage
and
lossyWAV option -C does this by creating a difference file.

Can you tell me with wich software you do this and how the command looks like for tak and lossywav hybrid lossy/lossless ?
Thanks in advance.

Re: TAK hybrid with LossyWAV ?

Reply #7
It wont be same as in Wavpack hybrid where the wavpack format & codec supports the correction file, but the correction file is generated and used only at the lossywav preprocessing stage. The implication is that you wont find support for recreating the complete lossless file while decoding in audio players. Also what Tak knows is only the lossywav processed data and so the hash wont match your original lossless data.

Assuming you want the correction files only for lossless archival purpose and not for playback and that you will rarely need to regenerate the lossless version, you can process your files through lossywav using the -c option and compress the lossywav processed file in Tak. Both the compressed tak as well as the correction file needs to be archived and when required decode with Tak and merge the correction file using -M option of lossywav.

LossyWAV wiki page would be helpful for you.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also note that it may be easy and efficient to archive a completely lossless Tak version of file and use the lossyTak for your playback purpose rather than dealing with multiple files and the hassle of merging and verifying them.

 

Re: TAK hybrid with LossyWAV ?

Reply #8
I second that.
The usefulness of lossyWAV's correction file mechanism lies in letting you have a lossless archive by merging the lossyWAV lossy output file with the correction file. This saves some storage space compared to having a lossless archive.
The drawback is the complicated handling.
With today's amount of cheap storage space I guess the more practical solution for most people is to have a lossless (TAK or whatever) archive and a lossy lossyFLAC (for best universal usability) collection.
lame3995o -Q1.7 --lowpass 17

Re: TAK hybrid with LossyWAV ?

Reply #9
Thanks @halb27 @Nimos for clearing this up for me. A totally different qeustion on the side not how do you use the latest flake.exe codec in foobar ? i downloaded latest version and used these parameters : -q -5 - -o %d
But it isnt working with those parameters.
Can someone help me out with the right parameters for this codec its awsome codec.
Thanks in advance and thanks for all your help its really appreciated.

Re: TAK hybrid with LossyWAV ?

Reply #10
If lossless restoration is rarely needed but nice to have just in case, Then you could archive [tar, zip, rar etc] the correction files to optical media, lan, cloud etc..  In doing so you have 1 collection vs 2. But as pointed out a full on restoration is trickier.