Skip to main content ↑ ↓

Notice

Please note that most of the software linked on this forum is likely to be safe to use. If you are unsure, feel free to ask in the relevant topics, or send a private message to an administrator or moderator. To help curb the problems of false positives, or in the event that you do find actual malware, you can contribute through the article linked here.
Topic: Dream MP3 player (Read 50838 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Dream MP3 player

Reply #50 –
that mp3&etc/portable/memory/media hype drawn my attention some time ago because it si realy interesting battle, and main reason - I want to buy "dream mp3 player"  ..and it has to be usb flash memory (1Gb - perfect) so I can store not only music but data I need in every day in any location, and has to be <200$
So, finaly products evolved near mine and think yours exaptations, I sad near because every time I decide , something better is around the corner

@ atici - that Sony new line got me interested and looks beatifull!
..did you buy any? please review it if you do 
a frag a day keeps the doctor away

Dream MP3 player

Reply #51 –
Quote
@ atici - that Sony new line got me interested and looks beatifull!
..did you buy any? please review it if you do 
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=292149"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Sonystyle.com says the release date is Apr 28. I was thinking of purchasing one of those for a while but it looks too plasticky. I'll probably wait a bit to make sure one can load tunes without the SonicStage software (possible with other newer Sony models).

New Samsung players look great also. But it's frustrating that there's no dream mp3 player in the market yet
The object of mankind lies in its highest individuals.
One must have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star.

Dream MP3 player

Reply #52 –
if Sony NW-E507 is gonna be SonicStage dependable than it's definitely lurking and waiting again 
usb cable is only minus I can live with
a frag a day keeps the doctor away

Dream MP3 player

Reply #53 –
I am sorry for having delayed this review until now but just now I got around to it.

I bought the Sony NW-E507 about 7 weeks ago. The most obvious disadvantage to buying a Sony would in my opinion have been to be forced into using SonicStage. Fortunately you don't need to use SonicStage for transferring MP3 files.  You can use Sony's MP3 file manager software. See this post for further information on how to achieve this. VBR MP3 files are recognized as VBR and played back with no problem. The tags are transferred properly with this software and I see many of the special characters I need are represented correctly (I have some ethnic Turkish music whose tags include some of the special characters: ü, ö, ç, ş, ğ, ı, â, û). Another reported transfer option is to use VAIO Music Transfer. One can directly transfer data files to the device with no software under Windows  if you want to use it as a storage -- when you install the driver the unit is recognized as a removable drive.

I'd like to remark that this player, although still not perfect in every aspect, is the most compelling flash based DAP in the market today IMHO. So you could say it's the dream player I've been looking for starting this thread. But it must be said that this player also has its own set of cons. So I had to compromise on some of my original wishes since there seems to be no player that gets everything right so far. For the sake of clarification I am using this unit with MDR-E888LP model earbuds -- not the default earbuds the device comes with.

So let's start with the pros of this player:
  • It has extraordinary battery life: >40 hours. Full charge takes ~3 hours and you can charge for a few minutes if you're in a rush to get about 3 hours playback time. So in terms of energy efficiency no player gets anywhere close to this DAP yet.
  • The primary control mechanism driven by the "jog shuttle" is very nicely designed and intuitive. This is probably one of the most important factors in a DAP. But the function of the "Search" button could have been designed better and the "Repeat" button is hard to access. These functions could've been integrated into the shuttle's.
  • The OLED display is very nice looking. It looks awesome before you get used to the player.
  • Size and weight of the DAP is also very good. AA battery based players can't compete with this form factor.
  • Sound quality is quite good. The maximum volume might be a bit low for high volume listeners. I mostly listen to classical and jazz at a reasonable volume but this already corresponds to 25/30 (30 represents full volume).
  • The player is a Sony and it bears Sony quality of engineering. You can tell that it doesn't look like some white plastic toy as some other players out there. It feels very solidly built and can't be damaged unless intentionally. But if you compare it to other Sony gadgets, there're better built devices out there -- like the earlier titanium model NW-MS70D.
  • The overall design of the unit is very cool. It looks very fashionable. Everyone says it's beautiful.
  • I have not used the FM tuner much but other reviewers are raving about its reception.
Now let's list the cons without which this player would have been totally perfect:
  • Slow transfer speed. Uploading an album (~70MB) takes about a minute maybe a bit more. But it's a 1GB player and this is not a big problem unless you transfer many albums often.
  • Edit: As mentioned by another poster later on the volume might be low for some users. For my everyday use I set it to 25/30 -- quite close to the full level. In comparison I don't remember going above 4/10 of the full volume on my old portable Sony CD player. A few times I needed to set it a bit higher but so far it never happened that full volume level is not sufficient thus I can't complain. I never used the AVLS feature on a Sony portable although Sony recommends it. This makes me think if Sony intentionally lowered the volume of this device to prevent any accidents due to a person not hearing outside sounds.
  • When you browse and select a new song/album sometimes it says "Unable to play" on the screen for ~1/3 sec. but then plays normally as if nothing happened. This 1/3 second and the message annoys me. I believe the player is verifying that the song is transferred via a method endorsed by Sony -- so that you won't try to play something illegally from Sony's point of view. Sony has to drop this attitude soon. Edit: After the firmware upgrade, this happens still but rarely. Check the newer posts on how to upgrade the firmware.
  • Plastic build. Titanium is the way to go. Edit: Ok, maybe not titanium but any high quality matte metallic build would do fine.
  • You can't read the display in bright daylight.
  • The OLED could've been larger and even more impressive!  When you consider the entire length of the device, the display could certainly be designed wider. OLED covers about half the full length.
  • The bag it comes with is not as small as the player. I wish there was a smaller bag even sold separately. This is important since I wouldn't want to damage the unit by accident. Thus I always carry it in its bag.
  • Some people complain in other reviews that the shiny finish could wear out if you are not careful. Apparently if you work out at the gym and get the unit sweaty that's what happens.
  • The MP3 file manager software that helps you transfer MP3s don't allow you set up your own folder structure. So you can't for instance group by genre or in a particular way you wish (I think this is possible with iRiver models). You only have one level structure by album.
  • It's possible but difficult to group a portion of the tracks for repeat playback. Sometimes I want to disregard some albums and only play some others. To do this is a bit tricky. I figured how to achieve this after a bit of thinking which is not explicitly mentioned in the manual.
  • Can't play Vorbis. It could be a hassle to transfer files when Windows 20XX comes out and Sony software support ceases. Edit: apparently you could firmware upgrade the device which is nice. Here is the link if anyone is interested.

Although I listed a lot of cons, I think they're by far outweighed by the pros of the device. Overall I am quite happy with my choice and would give this device a total score of 8.5/10. Let me know if any of you who's interested in purchasing this player has further questions. Check this forum for more important information about this device. For instance there's a tutorial on how to create your own display screens and a thread for Sony armband for this device (image).

Here is yet another review of this device.

The object of mankind lies in its highest individuals.
One must have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star.

Dream MP3 player

Reply #54 –
Quote
  • Plastic build. Titanium is the way to go.

You feel like paying an extra $100 bucks for it? Actually, I don't even know if it would be feasable to make a titanium DAP. They have way too many curves and cutouts. You'd have to mill each one of the little holes. (Titanuim is very difficult to work with. You can only cast in in vacuum, otherwise it reacts with the air. It's also very difficult to pressure mold. The reason that apple can use it for the powerbook is that a laptop has two big flat surfaces, so they can use standard extruded sheets with mimimal working.)

An all aluminum or magnesium alloy body would be practical for a DAP since you can cast it in a mold. That's strong enough that you probably couldn't notice the difference. Has anyone done this besides the rio Eigen?

Dream MP3 player

Reply #55 –
An earlier Sony model NW-MS70D has had the titanium build. But it doesn't have to be exactly titanium. Maybe I should've said good quality metallic build but not a shiny one. This is pretty standard in the world of gadgets -- quite a lot of the digital cameras (not SLR) have a solid metallic build nowadays. Some high end Sony minidisc models also have it.
The object of mankind lies in its highest individuals.
One must have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star.

Dream MP3 player

Reply #56 –
Quote
I am sorry for having delayed this review until now but just now I got around to it.

...


First of all, thank you Atici for taking some time to write a review about this product from Sony. I have to admit I've been following this discussion since its beginning because I was really interested in getting a DAP and didn't even know were to start looking or what to actually look for, so I consider this article managed somehow to get me on the right track.

I ordered a NW-E507 as soon as it got here to Venezuela and according to the store where I got it, I was the very second person who purchased this gagdet and that really felt great.

My impressions are really good and I'm overall satisfied with it except for those little annoying things like (very, at least IMO) low volume level and the bag that came along with the package.

But then, when reading your review I was very confused about some things you said wich may be false or not so true after all. Don't get me wrong but you can actually upgrade its firmware (mine's upgraded by me with ver. 2.0) and I think I read somewhere else that that problem of yours (the "unable to play" message) is solved as well. I also gotta say that you can add a second kind of clock and another screensaver (you can choose between the fishes and the bubbles or sparkling dots that "expand and collapse", as I like to call 'em). And although it has great sound quality (which indeed, it does), I consider max volume level to be extremely low in some cases, don't know where you use it but I carry mine everywhere I go and believe me, on my way to collegue, I can't succefully listen to it because of the annoying bus engine sound and the wind and things like that, so what I mean is that music can easily be "shaded away" (sorry but I don't know how to properly translate that), and I highly doubt 25/31 (note the "31" wich is, in fact, the actual max volume level) be enough for everyday use under some circumstances (keep in mind I do know you didn't say it, but I just wanted to point that out and make it clear).

As I say before, thank you for helping lost souls like me in the path of getting a nice and decent digital audio player. I just felt I had to reply as a way of appreciation.

PS: I consider it to be the best player out there too, though. 

Edit: some minor grammar mistakes.
XviD

Dream MP3 player

Reply #57 –
@MadXviD: Thanks a lot! I did not know about the firmware upgradability and just upgraded it to v2.0. Here is the link for anyone else interested. Hopefully this will solve some of the minor issues pointed out. It's funny that we  pretty much agree on the problematic issues about this device.

For the volume problem I recommend buying an in-canal earbud (MDR-EX71 maybe). Those headphones are usually designed to block the outside noise and I heard they do a good job at it. That might alleviate this issue for you. Another option is to raise the level of the music before encoding (but not so much to avoid clipping). This would solve the problem if the CD volume is somewhat low. Edit: mp3gain seems to be a good solution to achieve this effect.

About the bag. I've just found out that Sony actually has an armband designed for this series. Unfortunately it seems to be only marketed in Japan. I edited my review post to include a link.

By the way I run into another interesting player the other day which could be appealing for other followers of this thread. It's the Samsung YP-U1. It looks like Samsung is coming big soon with many other models both memory based and hard drive based.
The object of mankind lies in its highest individuals.
One must have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star.

Dream MP3 player

Reply #58 –
Quote
An earlier Sony model NW-MS70D has had the titanium build. But it doesn't have to be exactly titanium. Maybe I should've said good quality metallic build but not a shiny one. This is pretty standard in the world of gadgets -- quite a lot of the digital cameras (not SLR) have a solid metallic build nowadays. Some high end Sony minidisc models also have it.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=324333"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Huh. I hadn't heard of that one. Ah, it was back during the atrac-only days, no wonder. Well, there aren't a ton of pics but it appears that the thing has a two piece, clamshell type design, and the three holes for the display, controls, and jacks are all along the seams. That explains it. Wierd knob-based controls or a remote-only interface are what you would have to put up with for titanium.

You're right about cameras and minidiscs having metal bodies. I think that is partly a function of size. Plastic is easier to work with at small sizes. The flex of plastic is also better during assembly than rigidity of metal.

Dream MP3 player

Reply #59 –
I just bought one of these, so I'll let you guys know what I think of it once it arrives. Don't think I'll be using ATRAC3plus @ 48kbps like the package suggests, though 

Dream MP3 player

Reply #60 –
Only 2 things keeping me from buying one of these.

1) UMD capabilities

2) 2gig capacity

Dream MP3 player

Reply #61 –
Quote
Only 2 things keeping me from buying one of these.

1) UMD capabilities

2) 2gig capacity
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=324366"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


1) Wouldn't count on recordable UMD soon, if ever. Sony's copyright paranoia would probably prevent this.

2) I would expect to see these soon...other makers, such as Cowon, already have 2GB flash players on the market. But why would you need 2GB? You can transcode your 128kbps MP3's to 64kbps ATRAC3plus and double your storage! 

Dream MP3 player

Reply #62 –
Quote
For the volume problem I recommend buying an in-canal earbud (MDR-EX71 maybe).
...


The idea sounds very tempting but unfortunately, Sony is not selling them in this part of the world (meh, seems like third world countries are not their target priority).

As of now, I've been using the ones that came with the package and they're not that bad. I actually haven't been able to find some time to get better ones but who knows, maybe later.

Something I'd like to add to the "cons" list is the included shitty extension cable. God, I hate that piece of crap, it's so uncomfortable. Also, I could mention that I'm not entirely used to that left-shorter-right-longer structure of the cable itself, I'm more into the old-fashioned form. But the one thing I haven't figured out is: what model did they use for wearing the plugs?, seems like neither my dad (wich got one unit too) nor me are getting it right, they keep falling down and won't fit well in our ears ([badjoke] maybe morfological issues are the ones to blame about [/badjoke]). Anyway, all in all, those are headphones related problems, it doesn't have to do anything with the player itself.

One last thing I'm curious about, what unit color does Sony sell in your area/country?. Here in Venezuela, you can choose between blue, pink and silver ones.

Quote
Another option is to raise the level of the music before encoding (but not so much to avoid clipping).


This sound interesting but can you point out some "convenient" ways of doing that?. Haven't figured out a good way to go myself.

Edit: grammar.
Edit2: second quote.
XviD

Dream MP3 player

Reply #63 –
Quote
CompactFlash are huge, power-hungry, and obsolete.  Try SD instead, they're the same price and faster too..
Actually, SD cards are typically more expensive (have a look on eBay, CF cards are cheaper at any given capacity) and the fastest CF card can read/write at 20MB/s which is impossible for an SD card to attain (standard only supports transfer rates up to 100mbps [12.5MB/s] in the maximum 4 bit transfer mode).

In terms of power consumption, a solid state CF card is no worse than an SD card. You can also purchase 12GB solid state CF cards, whereas SD is limited to 4GB.

Dream MP3 player

Reply #64 –
Quote
I just bought one of these, so I'll let you guys know what I think of it once it arrives. Don't think I'll be using ATRAC3plus @ 48kbps like the package suggests, though 
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yay! I did not know this thread actually influenced people to consider what has become my ultimate choice.  Let us know your experiences  and let the HA Sony family grow...  I've never tried ATRAC3 maybe because I am scared without admitting to myself: What if I really like it? What if Sony fanboys are right and ATRAC3plus@64 > MP3@320 ?
Quote
Only 2 things keeping me from buying one of these.
1) UMD capabilities[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=324366"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Oh please. Why would a UMD be desirable? It'd simply add moving parts. A DAP with UMD support has no more appeal than the once-introduced-now-total-failure iRiver iDP-100. No one wants another proprietary media. Just get a hard drive player if you're not opposed to moving parts.
Quote
Also, I could mention that I'm not entirely used to that left-shorter-right-longer structure of the cable itself, I'm more into the old-fashioned form.
I think all high quality Sony earbuds are asymmetrical, which IMHO are far more comfortable to wear actually. MDR-EX71 is very widely available here. I am sure you can mail order if you want to. It's not expensive either (~$30). If they have the newer Sony MP3 players (which are very recently released here and considered fancy) where you live, I am sure they are likely to carry these earbuds.
Quote
One last thing I'm curious about, what unit color does Sony sell in your area/country?. Here in Venezuela, you can choose between blue, pink and silver ones.
I believe E507 comes only in silver because I don't remember seeing other options as I was looking for one. The other models like E405, E505 have more color options but I think they come in the same colors everywhere. I came across [a href="http://products.sony.co.uk/uploads/nw-e400.jpg]this image[/url] which shows black and green as well as pink and blue. I assume silver is different from black.
Quote
Quote
Another option is to raise the level of the music before encoding (but not so much to avoid clipping).

This sound interesting but can you point out some "convenient" ways of doing that?. Haven't figured out a good way to go myself.
I have my music in MPC + lossless. So I always do a conversion before I transfer the music to the DAP. I use foobar2000 to do the conversion. If you use the same software you can run the music through the DSP plugins you choose during conversion. For instance if you add a preamp to your DSP chain the volume level will increase. Actually there is a way to achieve the same effect through mp3gain software. I just looked into this, this actually looks like an overall better solution, especially if your music is in mp3 originally.
Quote
In terms of power consumption, a solid state CF card is no worse than an SD card. You can also purchase 12GB solid state CF cards, whereas SD is limited to 4GB.[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=324383"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Even so I don't think I'll ever buy a CF card again and consider them outdated. They might be faster, cheaper, larger in capacity but they sure are very large in dimensions. This renders them quite useless to be employed in any gadget where size is a concern. SD might not be most extreme card format out there in terms of dimensions or the newest (there is xD, miniSD,...) but once you own an SD device you know you are not buying another CF card anymore. So much for the memory card wars...
The object of mankind lies in its highest individuals.
One must have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star.

Dream MP3 player

Reply #65 –
One thing I didn't see mentioned was an S/PDIF output.  I'm looking into a DAP myself, and I can't seem to find any that have it so far.  Why is that?  Is it lack of demand for one or does it have something to do with copy protection?  I don't see why they couldn't just mute the digital output for the DRM files like iTunes, Napster, etc. but let the unprotected files play through it.

Dream MP3 player

Reply #66 –
And what about gapless MP3?

Dream MP3 player

Reply #67 –
I don't think there is any such thing on the current market as gapless playback when it comes to flash players (I'd love to be proven wrong).

Quote
So in terms of energy efficiency no player gets anywhere close to this DAP yet.

and that can be attributed to the lower power output, methinks.

From the looks of it, the I5 is the all-around best flash player with its AAA battery support (no need to wait for the unit to recharge or worry about the eventual obsoleteness of the unit because of a built-in battery).  And the kicker is definitely full ogg playback, quite possibly the best format in at least the 80-200 kbps range currently available in flash player units, which enables me to include more music with no loss in transparency. 

Dream MP3 player

Reply #68 –
Quote
And what about gapless MP3?[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Sony players support gapless playback if you use ATRAC3. MP3 by design is not a gapless format and therefore there are only workarounds to achieve gapless playback AFAIK. I found [a href="http://www.pretentiousname.com/mp3players/#workarounds]this link[/url] that explains this issue. Thus I don't think there is a universal, encoder independent, solution for mp3 gapless playback.
Quote
and that can be attributed to the lower power output, methinks.[snip].From the looks of it, the I5 is the all-around best flash player with its AAA battery support
I doubt it. Almost all Sony players have very good battery life. Their portable CD players with MP3/ATRAC3 support run for 70 hours, which is far beyond anything else with moving parts. I think this could be attributed to extremely power efficient circuitry. Cowon I5 is a good player. I was tempted into it for a while myself. Unfortunately it's a bit large for an AAA based player and its design/build quality does not look as appealing as the Sony. BTW Why they put phrases like "Color Sound" next to the screen is beyond me. It makes no sense and only serves to lower one's opinion of these players. IMHO Samsung makes the best Vorbis DAPs.
The object of mankind lies in its highest individuals.
One must have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star.

Dream MP3 player

Reply #69 –
Quote
Quote
And what about gapless MP3?[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Sony players support gapless playback if you use ATRAC3. MP3 by design is not a gapless format and therefore there are only workarounds to achieve gapless playback AFAIK. I found [a href="http://www.pretentiousname.com/mp3players/#workarounds]this link[/url] that explains this issue. Thus I don't think there is a universal, encoder independent, solution for mp3 gapless playback.


Actually, I will transcode on the fly from my lossless archive. Then I do not mind using ATRAC3. I have read that ATRAC3 is not a very good format but I have only seen comparison between "standard MP3" and 64kps ATRAC3 (to verify/deny Sony claims).

Do you know if I can get an ATRAC3 encoder to make my own ABX tests?

Dream MP3 player

Reply #70 –
Quote
Actually, I will transcode on the fly from my lossless archive. Then I do not mind using ATRAC3. I have read that ATRAC3 is not a very good format but I have only seen comparison between "standard MP3" and 64kps ATRAC3 (to verify/deny Sony claims).

Do you know if I can get an ATRAC3 encoder to make my own ABX tests?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You can download and install SonicStage 3.2 ([a href="http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=9586]where to download[/url]) which does ATRAC encoding. You would probably want to use ATRAC3plus. However you can't transcode your lossless music unless you convert it to WAV (or maybe WMA lossless would work) first since SonicStage do not recognize many codecs. If you convert to WAV the tags will not be carried over during this process. This would be a bit of a hassle for you.

If you want to do an ABX test make sure you adjust the volume before the test: it is known that the SS software changes it during ATRAC3 encoding. I believe ATRAC would have fared better if Sony encoder is not as fast as it is now but cared about resulting file quality more. Also being CBR only in current implementations is a big disadvantage for ATRAC.
The object of mankind lies in its highest individuals.
One must have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star.

Dream MP3 player

Reply #71 –
There is one (IMHO) very nice player, iBead 600 (see http://www.ibead.co.kr). It based on one AAA, has FM, encoder, plays OGG/MP3/WMA and has upto 2 Gb of memory!
What do you think?

Dream MP3 player

Reply #72 –
Quote
Quote
and that can be attributed to the lower power output, methinks.[snip].From the looks of it, the I5 is the all-around best flash player with its AAA battery support
I doubt it. Almost all Sony players have very good battery life. Their portable CD players with MP3/ATRAC3 support run for 70 hours, which is far beyond anything else with moving parts. I think this could be attributed to extremely power efficient circuitry. Cowon I5 is a good player. I was tempted into it for a while myself. Unfortunately it's a bit large for an AAA based player and its design/build quality does not look as appealing as the Sony. BTW Why they put phrases like "Color Sound" next to the screen is beyond me. It makes no sense and only serves to lower one's opinion of these players. IMHO Samsung makes the best Vorbis DAPs.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=325407"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Fair points.  I've heard some disparaging words from some previous owners about the Samsung DAPs but it wasn't related to their ogg capability.  I don't have anything to compare the size of the I5 to since this is my first flash DAP, so it's inconsequential to me.  It has held up exceptionally well to regular use since February as well with no obvious signs of wear or tear.

Re: Sony:  Maybe the Sony power efficiency is a combination of lower output and efficient power circuitry.  I'm simply repeating what I've heard elsewhere, which may or may not be 100% accurate.

Aradzish, if that iBead was available outside of the Far East, I might be able to answer your question.  It looks enticing.

Dream MP3 player

Reply #73 –
Interesting thread.  I've got a feeling based on observation that perfect portable players are going to be manufactured to appeal to the lowest common denominator of "intellegent" listeners with the deepest pockets.  Witness the IPod.  Now I haven't listened to one nor am I savy about their features so I don't want to appear judgemental.  I am open-minded.  Heck I even own and enjoy a Hi-MD Sony Discman as a secondary player, but I'm certainly not going to go drop some more and perhaps alot of money to buy an I-Pod.  Nor will I devest my time from MP3 to their proprietary codec to extract all my music from the orginal.
I've spent enough time lurking around here to assume that the majority of HA's members have made do with the technology pre-Ipod to produce an impressive library at their disposal in just about any situation.  Sorry but I just got off the couch after seeing about 10 I-Pod commericials for cellphones and soft drinks and chips....  I guess instead of watching T.V. I should have thrown in an MP3 disk I ripped through EAC, encoded through lame and burnt with Burnatonce.
I feel like such a nerd now!  Okay I've ranted twice in one night now better say good night!