Hydrogenaudio Forums

Quote from: cliveb on Today at 02:14:35 AM

When I listen to the two samples, I hear a "freshness" and clarity in the laser sample compared to the needle one. For example, the cymbals have more sparkle. I am realistic enough to acknowledge that this could simply be down to different frequency responses.

I think an important and relevant personal  facility for ignoring tics and pops is being afflicted by one or more common hearing disorders affecting the ability to hear high frequencies. I know for sure that some older friends who are "rediscovering vinyl" fit this profile.

Sorry Arny, are you saying that I'm able to ignore tics and pops because I have some kind of hearing disorder?
Do you really think that's the only conceivable explanation?
Or perhaps, to coin one of your favourite phrases, you're making a personal attack - which I find insulting.

I am frankly staggered that any time anyone ever disagrees with you, your response is to let rip with both barrels.
And in this case I wasn't even disagreeing with you!

What's also interesting is that you choose to target one small part of what I posted - even though my very next sentence points out that it isn't the main thrust of what I was getting at. Do you want to debate the core hypothesis I put forward, or do you just want to pick a fight?

Ever hear of TOS8?

Yes, and if you like I could post a FB2K ABX log showing 100% ability to distinguish the two samples. But you had already stated they are obviously different, so I assumed that wasn't necessary.

It is easy to show how your answer is dismissive and non-responsive, not to mention in violation of forum rules.

Frankly, I expected nothing better. I get it. In your mind you are right because you think you are right, science and forum rules be damned.

How many times have you berated people for arguing against things that you never said in the first place?
And yet that's exactly what you're doing now.
What is it that you believe I think I'm right about? Tell me and I'll let you know if you're putting words in my mouth.

There's a better way to at least attempt to collect reliable and relevant evidence related to  this question. Make the tics go away without affecting the remaining properties of the recording. I think that is  is doable. But there's no reason to do so because of the anti-science posturing.

Making the tics go away and doing a DBT  would be umm like scientific...

As it happens, audio restoration of vinyl LPs is one of my hobbies, and as you say, removing the tics is eminently doable.

So let me make sure I understand. Do you think that if the tics and pops weren't there, then an ABX comparison wouldn't find any differences? Because if that's what you're saying, and if you're prepared to take the test, I will de-tic these samples so you can ABX them for yourself.

On the other hand, you've already stated that the tics and pops are not the only audible difference - just the most obvious. So presumably you will expect the de-tic'd samples to still sound different. In which case, what exactly are you attacking me for?

The Sennheiser HD-600 may be more neutral out-of-the-box, if you assume either of these sites have the right target frequency response curve:
Goldenears:
HD-600: http://en.goldenears.net/8072
DT-880: http://en.goldenears.net/11302

Speakerphone:
HD-600: https://clarityfidelity.blogspot.ca/2016/04/sennheiser-hd-600-over-ear-headphones.html?view=sidebar (check the Harman compensated graph)

Just to reiterate, if you have some effective means for equalizing headphones, the smoothness of the response curve and its power bandwidth (not shown by most tests) are the most important things.

Reasonable sized ups and downs, peaks and valleys, and general trends don't matter.

This is good, because many of those things depend on the geometry of the individual's outer and inner ear.

If you don't equalize your headphones, it appears to me that you are majoring in minors. Chasing a phantom.

I appreciate the fast response, but that's not what I'm asking. What I would like to know is how to convert a readable timestamp, like 2017-06-02 21:36:22, into the long string of numbers, like 131409273821466963, that foo_playcount apparently uses.

Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on 22 July, 2017, 02:14:26 PM

Right. I focused on the difference that was most objectively and reliably audible and quantifiable.  I counted the tics and pops that I could hear, and did that several times to ensure that I had  fairly stable numbers for each file.  I did this in FooBar's ABX comparator as randomly chosen X's, and then analyzed the ABX log to sort my tic counting runs according to the actual source.

Please tell me how you quantify "improved detail", that is reduce it to numbers that are reliable in a blind test.

When I listen to the two samples, I hear a "freshness" and clarity in the laser sample compared to the needle one. For example, the cymbals have more sparkle. I am realistic enough to acknowledge that this could simply be down to different frequency responses.

I think an important and relevant personal  facility for ignoring tics and pops is being afflicted by one or more common hearing disorders affecting the ability to hear high frequencies. I know for sure that some older friends who are "rediscovering vinyl" fit this profile.

 Being a dyed-in-the-will Placebophile would help, no?

Ever hear of TOS8?

It is easy to show how your answer is dismissive and non-responsive, not to mention in violation of forum rules.

Frankly, I expected nothing better. I get it. In your mind you are right because you think you are right, science and forum rules be damned.

There's a better way to at least attempt to collect reliable and relevant evidence related to  this question. Make the tics go away without affecting the remaining properties of the recording. I think that is  is doable. But there's no reason to do so because of the anti-science posturing.

 Making the tics go away and doing a DBT  would be umm like scientific...

Thanks for the insights, apart from all the noise that comes with vinyl, my reasons are much simpler, I just can't be bothered with all the rigmarole of dealing with it. Having music at your finger tips and being able to easily select individual tracks, albums or genres at the touch of a button from a hard drive is bliss.