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Topic: Want stream-able web video with lossless audio track - the question is 'how?' (Read 4585 times) previous topic - next topic
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Want stream-able web video with lossless audio track - the question is 'how?'

Hi everyone,

I'm a vlogger and I'm annoyed by the web video development on the internet, because the resolution gets better and better regarding the video track (720p, 1080p, 4K, in future 8K), whereas the audio track stays lossy.

I want to see more stream-able web videos where the audio track is lossless.

Is this anyhow possible? If yes, how? If no, at what particular spots does this fail?

To my understanding this should be working, if one creates a video, but not with
mp4, but instead with Ogg FLAC. If this is correct, then 3 detail questions raise:
1. How to create a video with Ogg FLAC?
2. Can Adobe Premiere Pro produce videos with Ogg FLAC?
3. If one tries to upload such an Ogg FLAC video on YouTube, does the upload even work properly?


Greetings,
digitalharmonic

Re: Want stream-able web video with lossless audio track - the question is 'how?'

Reply #1 –
Quote from: digitalharmonic on
I want to see more stream-able web videos where the audio track is lossless.

There is no reason to do this.  Just use normal audio formats, and then provide a download link in FLAC format in case someone needs a lossless copy of the audio (e.g. for remixing, editing, etc).  This will save a lot of bandwidth, and be easier for people who actually want lossless. 

Quote from: digitalharmonic on
Is this anyhow possible? If yes, how? If no, at what particular spots does this fail?

I don't think so (correct me if I'm wrong), at least not with standard browsers.  You might be able to with browser-specific plugins though. 

Re: Want stream-able web video with lossless audio track - the question is 'how?'

Reply #2 –
3. YouTube will take various stuff (I tried prores with lossless pcm, mkv with 422 mpeg2  video + lossless pcm), but all gets transcoded.  So if you have nice upload speed, definitely makes sense. P.s. The problem is it doesn't know what to do with interlaced stuff.
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Re: Want stream-able web video with lossless audio track - the question is 'how?'

Reply #3 –
1. ffmpeg (Can't find what to clicky to edit my previous post), mkv is possible container for flac audio and whatever video, not supported by browsers.
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Re: Want stream-able web video with lossless audio track - the question is 'how?'

Reply #4 –
Thank you for the feedback !

I think that it's a good suggestion to offer FLAC seperatedly, Videos with lossless audio tracks make sence in so far, that
720p+lossless is better than 1080p+lossy and 4K+lossy, but nevertheless way smaller. This is especially of interest, if
one wants to upload own music videos in best quality like in my case.

The browser could be a problem? Interesting. Never thought about that.
When I've read the wikipedia article for FLAC I've bumped into the notion of streamed lossless audio for the first time.
There it says: "The technical strengths of FLAC compared to other lossless formats lie in its ability to be streamed and decoded quickly" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLAC#Comparison_to_other_formats

With that in mind I made my way to the website of the FLAC developers, in which FAQ section it says:
"Which should I use, (native) FLAC or Ogg FLAC?

The short answer right now is probably "native FLAC". If all you are doing is compressing audio to be played back later, native FLAC will do everything you need, is more widely supported, and will yield smaller files. If you plan to edit the compressed audio, or want to multiplex the audio with video later in an Ogg container, Ogg FLAC is a better choice." - https://xiph.org/flac/faq.html#general__native_or_ogg

From there it was clear, that indeed, it is possible to create video+lossless audio tracks using Ogg FLAC.
I mean, the FLAC developers wouldn't say so in their FAQ for nothing, right? A look into the wikipedia article of Ogg just confirms this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogg

But - at least at first & second sight - the website of the FLAC developers leaves the audience pretty unclear in the question how to
actually put this possibility into action. It's unclear what software to use for creating video+lossless audio tracks. It's unclear who
supports it. What we have figured out here, right now, is, that apparently it doesn't work with YouTube, as YouTube transcodes
all lossless input into a lossy audio format.

Maybe the decentral & free YouTube, MediaGoblin (wikipedia article - 4 minute explanation video about what MediaGoblin is), can work with video+lossless audio tracks...
well, but the main question really is: How to create video+lossless audio tracks in the first place? What programs to use for creating this? Can Adobe Premiere or any other program do the job?
Because if we haven't surpassed that point, we don't need to think about the other points...

Re: Want stream-able web video with lossless audio track - the question is 'how?'

Reply #5 –
Not sure what exactly is supported in ogv considering video codecs, but if that is theora only, then you are stepping into past.
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Re: Want stream-able web video with lossless audio track - the question is 'how?'

Reply #6 –
Quote
I'm a vlogger and I'm annoyed by the web video development on the internet, because the resolution gets better and better regarding the video track (720p, 1080p, 4K, in future 8K), whereas the audio track stays lossy.
Well the video track is also always lossy over the internet and the bitrate that is spent on a lossless audio track can be better spent on better quality video. Audio reaches transparency with an increase of bitrate far easier than video.

Re: Want stream-able web video with lossless audio track - the question is 'how?'

Reply #7 –
Quote from: digitalharmonic on
I think that it's a good suggestion to offer FLAC seperatedly, Videos with lossless audio tracks make sence in so far, that
720p+lossless is better than 1080p+lossy and 4K+lossy, but nevertheless way smaller.

FLAC is lossless, but it won't actually provide higher audio quality here.  Just use a modern format like AAC and you will get perfectly transparent quality.  No need for FLAC.

Quote from: digitalharmonic on
From there it was clear, that indeed, it is possible to create video+lossless audio tracks using Ogg FLAC.
I mean, the FLAC developers wouldn't say so in their FAQ for nothing, right? A look into the wikipedia article of Ogg just confirms this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogg

Its possible to mix almost any audio and video format, but you won't be able to play it in a web browser if its not a supported combination by your web browser.

Quote from: digitalharmonic on
well, but the main question really is: How to create video+lossless audio tracks in the first place? What programs to use for creating this?

Check Google.  Almost any MKV mux/demux program can do this.